Episode 252 - Laying Down a Promotion for the Sake of Another with Sam Rhee
Imagine you’re waiting on a big promotion that you’ve worked for all your life, and then God tells you to recommend someone else.
That’s what happened with Endowus founder and today’s guest Sam Rhee.
Before his current venture, Sam worked in investment banking and was in line for a new, significant position when he felt the Lord calling him to something different.
He didn’t know what it would be at the time, but now, he’s grateful that he had faith in God’s plan.
Hear Sam’s story on this special episode originally recorded on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia podcast and don’t forget to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts.
Visit asia.faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/podcasts for more.
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Wen Li Lim: Welcome back to Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia. My name's Wen, and like usual, I have my co-host, Henry Kaestner with me. Welcome back, Henry.
Henry Kaestner: Really looking forward to tonight. We've got a really special guest.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah, I'm super excited. We have my dear friend Sam, whom I met in Singapore. We actually met at a digital mission venture event. It was a pitch event for Christian entrepreneurs. And we got introduced there and we've kind of become friends since. I'm really, really glad and welcome Sam to the podcast.
Sam Rhee: Well, thank you. It's an honor and pleasure to be here with you guys.
Wen Li Lim: So thank you so much. I'm really excited to talk into some questions and to kind of get to know you in Endowus better. So the first question off the bat, actually, we understand that you actually did a seminary diploma at regional college in the past. And just kind of that's kind of interesting. You know, like you're in investment banking and all of that. And so kind of what led you to that and how has that influenced your work?
Sam Rhee: Yeah, well, I have to come clean. I didn't finish a diploma. I started it. Never completed it.
Wen Li Lim: That's okay. That's fine.
Henry Kaestner: Oh, true entrepreneur.
Sam Rhee: Yeah, like an entrepreneur. And that's right. And at the time, I just retired from my company, Morgan Stanley, where I was for about 17 years, and that was after working for about 23 years straight, you know, in the finance industry after graduating from college. So God allowed me to have this one year clean break as a sabbatical. So I took the opportunity to do some of the things that I wanted to do. And one of the things was to go off to college. Regent college in Vancouver, our I took some summer courses and that led me to pursue a diploma. So I started doing it. I never completed it because I became an accidental entrepreneur building in Endowus from 2017-18. But it was a wonderful experience and a great learning opportunity and really go deeper with God. A lot of people say that theology can often push people away, but maybe if that is all you do, that might do so. But for for the average laypeople, I think, you know, some theology is super helpful. I get excited about learning and going deeper into his word through the study of theology. And it's the same for my wife, who's actually studying, as Henry said, at Biola. So yeah, it's a common theme within our family.
Wen Li Lim: I love it. And I guess education and continuous learning, like you said, is really big for both you and your wife and that you've brought in to in Endowus. So can you kind of talk about why, you know, kind of financial education and literacy is really important for you and the beginnings even of, you know, when you were at Regent and became an accidental entrepreneur in Endowus, how did that all happen?
Sam Rhee: Yeah, actually, I did two courses during that summer. That was one. The other one was actually an international management program that was run by Stanford Business School and NUS business school. So I think I kind of was finding that balance between learning best practices in the workplace and from the Bible. But I think God kind of wire me to be that way, you know, to always have this desire to learn more. It's definitely a lifelong thing as you shared, and whether it's through a book or through people, you know, I like to absorb knowledge and also wisdom from others. But, you know, when I left the company and during my sabbatical, I actually felt like God may be calling me to full time ministry. So I did explore like theology full time. Even back then I went to Gordon Conwell in Boston as my [...] favorite city and even Regent in Vancouver. And actually a lot of people don't know this, but I also applied to Harvard Kennedy School of Government thinking maybe I should look into public service, but actually got rejected. And so God moved us away from that, moved us away from full time theology at the time and brought me back to my heart, which was in the marketplace, and allowed me to be better equipped through those two courses at Regent and then at Stanford anbd NUS. And I guess that is reflected in the company's desire as well as we build it up on education to improve financial literacy. So we always say that. I mean, at the heart of it, we are a wealth tech company in the financial service industry. So we were a financial service company. First and foremost. We are a commercial entity, but we also say that important liberal content company, you know, we want to focus on financial education and improving financial literacy because we feel that is critically important to the success of individuals in reaching their financial goals and empowering them in that journey.
Henry Kaestner: So any entrepreneur has got a good kind of founding story or a founding story, not necessarily good, but where they see a problem and that needs to be fixed. And so what was it about your past experience? Because you have just this very, very unusual path to entrepreneurship. And it's good to hear a little bit about that kind of break over the course of a year that you had. But it's not often that somebody at the really, you know, just pretty close to the pinnacle of all asset management in a big firm like Morgan Stanley that says, you know what, I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to be an entrepreneur. So there must have been an origin story there where you said, I could go ahead, I could ride off into the sunset, but my goodness, I can't do that knowing that this problem exists. What was that problem? Where is the problem?
Sam Rhee: Yeah, I mean, I think the problem was something that I experienced during my, like relatively long career in the financial service industry. And, you know. I guess first and foremost in that role, I was an investor, so I used to invest in public market growth equities, and it was an institutional investment company. So Morgan Stanley used to manage assets for public pensions. You know, I mean, we're talking like, you know, AT&T or, you know, Texas teachers pension systems. And, you know, you know, from my perspective, the way I justified and kind of found purpose in the work that I did was the understanding that God placed me here to help that guy who, you know, for his whole life was climbing electric posts and fixing the wires. I'm helping him to send his kid to college, or I'm helping teachers who have dedicated their lives to educating kids to be able to have dignity in their old age and not live in poverty. So there was a great impetus for me to do my work well because of that perspective that God gave me even when I was at a big bank. But I think when I was looking at the next steps, I quickly realized that, you know, the work was good for that season, but God was preparing me through these opportunities to take a break, to revisit some of the key driving motivators that God placed in me and, you know, direct sending me in a new direction in the second half of my life. So I was early forties at the time and all the previous experiences actually shaped me to do what I'm doing now. I realize that everything that I did, God had given me an experience so that I can do the job that I'm doing and building this company even better. Now, the Genesis story is that obviously, you know, in Asia things are very different from the U.S. or other developed markets like, you know, even Europe in the space of financial service. And this is a concept that is lost a lot because, you know, we talk about finance, right, as if it's an abstract concept, but at the heart of it, finance is really providing financial services to individuals or institutions. And the people who always get the short end of the stick is is the individual, because they don't have the power, they don't have the huge pot of money. And therefore, oftentimes banks, especially in Asia, where regulations are not as progressed, they are always being given the worst products and the highest cost with little advice to give them a higher chance of success. So Endowus originated because we wanted to bring the best ways of investing. So endowment investing in Harvard, Yale, David Swensen and Stanford Endowments, they're the pinnacles of institutional investing and we want to bring that level of institutional investing, professional advice to the individual. And one way to do it is really to seek justice and righteousness in the space of finance by giving these individuals a better opportunity to reach their financial goals. And one of the biggest goals that they face and challenges they face is to reach for time and adequacy in a very rapidly aging society.
Henry Kaestner: So I love it. I love the premise behind that. You give institutional level type of services to people that are more on the main street side and to do it in a way that you don't unduly profit on their backs. Okay, So I want to come back because there are a ton of things that you can do that every mainstream investor can do, and yet a lot of it can be just intimidating in the selection is overwhelming. There are thousands of ETFs and mutual funds across all sorts of different asset classes that are available to any type of investor regarding regardless of size. You mentioned something along the way about being able to give access to counsel for a for the line worker, so to speak, that you're working with to be able to make sense of it all. How is that pan out in Endowus, how do you endeavor to make sense of the myriad of options in a way that's accessible to somebody who maybe doesn't have a financial background and doesn't understand maybe even a stock from a bond?
Sam Rhee: Yeah, No, I think that the levels of financial literacy are improving quite rapidly, and that's something that the US probably saw in the seventies and eighties into the nineties. And I think that, you know, opening up for one K and you know, what's called this, you know, defined contribution as opposed to a defined benefit allowed the individual to take more control of their pensions and investments in general and educated them in terms of financial literacy, literacy in a major way. And I think that's kind of happening in Asia across various markets and Singapore definitely. So by Endowus, allowing individuals to seamlessly invest in financial markets in a you know, in the right way, in a globally diversified, low cost manner, what that does is it empowers people to have a much higher chance of success. But what's also important is fixing the pipes. Right? And that's a tough thing to do, especially in the space of finance. You know, people often forget that finance is a. Professional service. You know, doctors and lawyers, you know, they're supposed to doctors are supposed to take care of your physical health. Financial advisers like ourselves should be taking care of your financial health. For far too long, I think we've given too much power and too much money to the banks. And they've not given us the right tools, given us the right access or the right advice, and in a way have kind of charged us too much in terms of fees to have any chance of success. And especially when it comes to investing your pension and preparing for retirement adequacy. So that's where in Endowus is really focused on, is really trying to bring more transparency, bring a higher level of integrity and really restoring the fiduciary duty to do what's in the best interest of the client. And that's my way of seeking justice and righteousness in the space of finance. And so in Endowus has introduced, for example, the model of voluntarily giving back 100% of all the commissions that we receive from fund managers and not keeping a single cent for ourselves. And this is a common weight for banks and brokers to make money to kickbacks, you know, that they receive from their managers. It's actually illegal in many parts of developed markets now, you know, and regulations are catching up in other markets like the U.S. and Australia more recently. But in Asia, especially Singapore and Hong Kong, it hasn't happened yet. So the old system of paying massive commissions to the distributor is still the norm. And what that means is that often the worst products rise to the top because they have to pay the highest commission. The good guys don't want to pay commissions because their product is good. It sells itself and the person that loses all the time is the individual investor who are always going to be pushed products that are inferior at high cost just so that the banks can make more money off of it. And so we want to improve transparency, align the best interest so that you know, and really remove all of these commissions. I mean, commissions for distributing financial products is like getting commissions for selling, you know, pharmaceutical products to doctors. That's already been banned for many decades. Right. Is the same thing. We need to do that for financial sector. So we want to lead the charge in that way.
Henry Kaestner: Now, I know that I've heard folks talk about the three pillars that you started your business on. Is that one of them? What? What are they?
Sam Rhee: Yeah, the three pillars we say of any investment success is really about advice, access and cost. So good advice aligned in the best interests of the client as a true fiduciary should provide. Because as you said, many people don't know, maybe even, you know, the difference between stocks and bonds or how they should invest over the long term to build true wealth. You know how to discern these fees, whether it's expensive or cheap. So advice is critically important and not being paid by other guys who sell you product, but only by the client. So you only work for the client. That is the right way to do it. It's called, you know, the ROA of fiduciary based conflict free, independent advisory system. And that's so critical to everyone's success. And then access, you know, because there's so many markets in Asia and they're relatively smaller compared to a big single singular market like the US, we don't have as many options, like the number of ETFs in Singapore, Hong Kong, a tiny compared to the U.S., you know, the private market solutions that you talked about, alternatives not available in many of these markets. So working with these partners to bring better products, you know, passive low cost index funds were not available in the pension system in Singapore prior to our advice arrival. We had to work with Vanguard, now BlackRock, to try to bring those products into Singapore and launch it into the CPS system. So those kind of efforts to provide better access to better products and then finally, low cost, because the flip side to cost is returns. If you can reduce cost by one percentage point, then that will improve your returns directly by one percentage point. And we know the power of compounding when it comes to investing long term. And if you can enhance your, you know, returns by one percentage point, let's say from 6% to 7%, that will improve your returns over 30 years by about 300%. So so saving cost is critically important to achieving better chance of success for individuals.
Wen Li Lim: Well, you're super passionate about this. Yeah. And I think it's it's fantastic. But let me wind back to like 20 years old Sam. So you grew up as a pastor's kid. And actually, I don't think we've spoken about this. My husband is also the son of a pastor. And I know that growing up, he was constantly asked by people in the church and family, friends, when are you going to be a pastor? And I'm sure you had that very similar experience and actually thought about going into full time ministry. And your dad actually advised you that the church actually really needs great lay leaders. Can you kind of give us a glimpse into that conversation and even how your dad kind of thought about this? Because this was many years ago. Sorry, you're not that old, but this is a couple a couple of decades ago. But yeah, I'm kind of what happened. Like with 20 years old Sam.
Sam Rhee: Yeah. No, it wasn't 20 year old that that discussion with my father happened when I was a teenager.
Wen Li Lim: Oh, right. Okay.
Sam Rhee: To provide you with a bit of context. My father was a pastor, but it wasn't. It wasn't an ordinary pastor at a church. You know, he and my mother actually both met Christ personally in their college days. Although he's from a Christian family, they devoted themselves as actually lay leaders within a campus evangelization network. So as something like Campus Crusade, InterVarsity Fellowship, type a Korean version of it, and this is back in the early 1960s when Korea was dirt poor. Right. So, you know, living in poverty, they gave their lives to raise leaders of the future for God and his kingdom, you know, for God and country, basically. Right. And that runs deep in the values that, you know, shaped me a lot. So when I was growing up, obviously, as you said, as a pastor's kid, I have an older brother as well. A lot of people ask, you know, who's going to follow in your dad's footsteps and be a pastor or a missionary? And this was when we were in London at the time, right? My father was belatedly sponsored by some missionaries in the US to go study in the UK. That's the home of the InterVarsity. And he was at London Bible College or London Theological Seminary now. And, you know, basically a lot of people ask us who's going to be the pastor missionary? And we kind of both look at each other, my brother and I, and we thinking. Not me but, you know, it.
Sam Rhee: Weighs on you. Right. And, you know, when I was around 13 or 14 or 15, I can't remember exactly when I was talking to my dad and seriously asked him whether I should be going into full time ministry, especially because I was, you know, my brother's fantastic and I love him, but I'm the kind of the nicer guy. And so everybody assumed that.
Wen Li Lim: I hope he listens to this episode.
Sam Rhee: Yes. I'll forward it to him, I'll forward it to him for sure. And so, you know, we were both not really interested, but it was weighing on me. So I asked my dad and he told me that, yeah, he loves the ministry, he loves what he's doing and is passionate about it. But you know what? What the world needs and what God needs right now is not more pastors, but more lay leaders who will be able to do everything a pastor does, you know, teach the Bible, preach the gospel, you know, be missionaries in the workplace, as he sees that as the future spiritual battleground. And this was like, you know, in the 1980s, right? So, yeah, he was well ahead of his time. But because of his background and, you know, his his theology, that shaped me a lot. And, you know, I have said before that, you know, Micah six eight to do justice is like kindness and will walk humbly with your God. That's been my guidepost and wanting to be, you know, just not very common. But a teenager wanting to be a good lay leader as his dream. But that's kind of how I grew up. And so that was a unique. Yeah, difference.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. And how does that play out? Like on a day to day basis? You know, like in terms of you going about your work as a co-founder and in your business, I mean, do you have any examples of what, you know, serving of being a lay leader looks like?
Sam Rhee: Yeah. I mean, I think that I've said previous stories about, you know, when I was at Morgan Stanley and a very critical and important kind of experience I had that shaped me, especially in the later years, you know, in my forties and fifties was that experience in my thirties of, you know, when I was in Morgan Stanley and we were I was offered promotion to be an M.D. and I don't know if, you know, investment banking and you know that world of finance. Being an M.D. at a big bank is like the Holy Grail as a young person. And at the time I was a co-head and, you know, with another friend of mine and we were both offered promotion and it was still the global post global financial crisis kind of period. And my boss from New York flew in from New York to Singapore and told us that he managed to secure only one promotion for us. And we were thought that we were led to believe and thought that both of us were going to be promoted together. And instead of like telling us who going to get promoted, he sat us down and said, okay, you guys discuss and decide who's going to got promotion, get promoted first.
Henry Kaestner: No way.
Sam Rhee: We were like, What is going on?
Sam Rhee: And yeah, his. And so yeah, we left it to us. And so we both obviously desperately wanted it. And I thought I obviously deserved it more because I was managing a bigger piece of the portfolio in terms of assets. I had a, you know, slightly better performance, I think, and contributed more to the team. But, you know, it was one of those things where God really intervened and said that, hey, this is where, you know, being a Christian needs to be different. And he convicted my heart and I went back to him and said that, look. After praying with my wife at the time? Well, at the time I prayed with my wife, not pray with my wife at that time. And I have a different wife now.
Sam Rhee: But yeah.
Sam Rhee: But you know, my wife and I prayed and, you know, she actually was given the passage from Genesis 11 where, you know, Abraham obviously had the first dibs, but gave it to Lot and Lot chose the better field area. And, you know, that was a testament of what being a Christians about and where our priorities lie. And so I went back to him and told him that, hey, we prayed about it, thought about it. And I think that, you know, I'm okay with you going first. And even then, to be honest, I expected him to say, No, no, Sam, you should go first and I'll push it back to him and say, No, no, you go first and then, you know, you know, he'll take it. But
Wen Li Lim: O Sam, It's like fighting over dinner Bill.
Sam Rhee: Yes, precisely. I expected that it's a very Asian thing. Right.
Sam Rhee: And instead, he said.
Sam Rhee: Immediately jumped on it and said, Is that okay? Really, I really want this. So, yes, thank you, Sam.
Sam Rhee: And I was like, devastated.
Henry Kaestner: Well you know, that's how it works, you know, so locked in, go back and say, No, Abraham, you really go, right? Yeah. Because I think there's such a powerful, it is to me it's incredible, incredible story. I know. I you know, I think that the answer. Yeah, please. Oh, there's more there.
Sam Rhee: Yeah, there's a little bit more to this. Because it's not just that because God did so much more in that process to me. And it really was after that I went to tell my boss and the boss agreed, okay, fine, I'll try to do what I can for you next year. And these type of things are never guaranteed, right? And then I went to his room and told him, Hey, I told the boss, you know, you're going to be promoted first. And I'm okay with that. And I expected him to be happy after that initial conversation. And basically he was like not looking that great. And he said this to me and it just stays with me to this day that, you know what? Throughout my life I thought I could do anything another person could do. And this is the first time in my life that someone is doing something that I know I cannot do. And I was thinking about why, and I realized that it's because you have your God. And I don't, you know, we're great friends, but he's not the type to say those things. And for me, though, when he said that, I actually realized something that was fundamentally true, that until that moment I had always lived for my own glory, even though I talked about the glory of God and when I truly died to myself. And gave something out. You know, God used the mouth of my colleague and friend to encourage me. But it led to a place of repentance that this was the first time when I died to self that God was finally glorified in my life. For me, that was the single experience that God gave me that shaped, you know, what are my priorities, you know, for God and His kingdom. What are the things that truly reflect his image through me in the workplace? And so, yeah, I just wanted to share that because it was a moment of great shame and led me to a place of repentance, in fact. But it shaped me.
Henry Kaestner: It's not often Wen and I find myself speechless. There's a remarkably powerful message. I'm really grateful. And I think that there's a lot of encouragement. There is not how anybody would have thought that story would have ended. And it becomes but it becomes a better story because of it. And that's just I mean, it's just that's awesome. How does that how is that how did that end up playing out? You know, fast forward a year later and in your friendship with a guy and yes, for because there's so much other things I want to talk about to it how this story and give us postscript.
Sam Rhee: It's a bit of an anticlimax because no I mean the look that really was important for our relationship because it built further trust and strengthened us, right as partners in the business. We were co-heads we continued to lead the team together for many more years after that and had a fantastic relationship. And it's a bit of an anti-climax, I say, because I did end up getting promoted the next year. And then again I got promoted to be the CEO of the business in Asia. But it was great because that friend who I deferred the promotion to actually was one of the biggest supporters in me becoming the CEO. And again, God taught me a lesson that it wasn't about God wanting to take things away from me so that I can learn a lesson. That's not how it works. It was really to help me mature and grow and give me a deep spiritual lesson that grounds me now to this day and allows me to have, you know, that deep connection with God through my own experience. And that allows me to like, build on top of that. So it really ended up being like a Abraham life story of God giving me more than my heart's desire eventually, and things that I didn't even deserve in my view, and just the grace of God. So yeah, that's how it kind of ended up. But, you know, that also led me to leave the company because I knew that my work had kind of been done and I thought that God was calling me to a bigger purpose. And I thought I would always remain an investor because I'd been an investor all my life. So I thought I would continue to invest. And so I started angel investing and, you know, the tech scene was booming, you know, everywhere in the world, but in Asia. And the fintech space was really starting to get going. And so I started investing, advising companies, mentoring startup founders as well. And I left the company to focus on the space of fintech as an investor and an advisor. But then the opportunity came up when I met these two young guys to, you know, get Startup Start in Endowus, and it was like the meeting of minds because we were passionate about trying to solve this problem and the pain points that existed in the space of finance, especially wealth, and especially related to pension and the retirement adequacy problem. So yeah, that's how it kind of transpired after that.
Henry Kaestner: So there's so much in there. One of the things that I want to point out, if this lost our audience is that the the exercise you did with going with your wife in praying and her hearing from God through his word, Yeah, that's really powerful. And just be able to approach a situation like that in unity. And I think that's a that's a big lesson. I think that it's possible. Of course it God might answer that prayer differently based on context and that a husband or wife might get together on their knees and pray about God's direction. And the answer might look different than it did for you. But gosh, for you to have done that with your wife set you on an incredible path and God continues to use you to this day. And and now I think we can all agree that you've achieved the pinnacle of your career because you made it on to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast, right?
Sam Rhee: That's right. That's always been my dream.
Sam Rhee: My dream and ambition.
Wen Li Lim: Oh, Henry.
Sam Rhee: Honestly It's true. I'm not.
Henry Kaestner: It's okay. You had so much credibility, right? Until that last little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sam, you are. You're a great encouragement to me and to the ministry. You show that last last year when we were together in Singapore. I'm grateful for you. Wen lead us to a lightning round, please.
Wen Li Lim: Sure. So what we do now is do a couple of really, really quick questions. Well, some of the quick answers that. So we've got like 30 seconds to answer a question. And some of this is kind of for fun and. And then we will wrap up with Henry. Just asking you, you know, what God's speaking to you about. And then the podcast is over, gosh, it's gone fast. Okay, first question. So you live between the States and Singapore. What is a tip? Or traveling, going back and forth? Because you say you're really bad at it, but you know, it travels back. So one day, what do you do to kind of get over the times zone?
Sam Rhee: for me is not going well for others, but I work try to work on Singapore time, so I am much more flexible with the work. So I actually do stay like, you know, much more Singapore time. So I work until like 1:02 a.m.. But what that allows me to do is have time and space during the day to really think and strategize and read books and spend time with my wife and family and enjoy that to its fullest. And then in the evening I give myself and devote to work and my colleagues who are still in Singapore. So when I'm in Singapore, I do the reverse. But you know, it's Singapore time, but it helps me to like get over the jetlag and the difficulties of the time difference.
Wen Li Lim: You've lived a lot of places in London and everywhere. Where do you think have a best food career?
Sam Rhee: Korea, I really love Korean food.
Sam Rhee: Food.
Henry Kaestner: More than in Singapore.
Sam Rhee: It's amazing that Korea has evolved and developed as an international cuisine center. So, you know, Michelin star restaurants to the cheapest local food. So I think Singapore and Korea is very close, but Korea's version of hawker centers are there. But it's just that the Korean food, which is my soul food, there's much more diversity and choice and the quality so much better in Korea.
Wen Li Lim: What's your favorite Korean dish?
Sam Rhee: Kimchi stew or, you know, deep soup. Yeah, something soupy.
Wen Li Lim: Something soupy? Okay, So hot in Singapore. You like soup? Henry, just for your knowledge, that's a michelin starred Korean restaurant in Singapore. I think top five, top ten restaurants matter. I think it's.
Sam Rhee: Great. Yeah. My wife.
Wen Li Lim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, anyway.
Sam Rhee: The funny things is that I actually have never been, you know, my wife's been many times, I have never been.
Wen Li Lim: Okay. We'll have to go on that And then I just one quick tip for actually entrepreneurs mean you're obviously very, very proficient in handling money. Any kind of financial tips for like budding entrepreneurs or early stage entrepreneurs?
Sam Rhee: Oh, well, when it comes to investments, there's always a right way to invest and build wealth over the long term. So a time tested and proven ways of investing like diversification, passive low cost investing, dollar cost averaging, and, you know, understanding that time in the market is more important than timing the market. You know, there are no fool proof of ways, but these will help you significantly, significantly improve the chance of success. But there's also a surefire ways not to build wealth, right. Which is try to tie markets on crypto for quick gain or, you know, trade meme stocks and, you know, things like that. It may well some of the times, but over the long term, certain ways to lose money for the average individual. But really, you know stay humble seek the advice of professionals. And as an entrepreneur, I think this is a very difficult time. As you know, the tide is kind of receding and money is not as cheap or common and available. And so I think really we need to go back to fundamentals of being an entrepreneur, like what is the purpose and the mission and the vision of the company and how do we achieve, you know, success with our people. And, you know, it's sad to see people cutting their team and people as their first step. You know, I've been inspired by companies where the whole company has agreed to take a 10% pay cut altogether so they can stay together, you know, through the downturn. And there's other ways in which we can address that economic downturn. And so I would like you know, I would love to see entrepreneurs come up with better ways, you know, first principles find better ways, you know, new ways, innovative ways to, you know, overcome these challenges, overcome the limitations of capital and resources. And that would be amazing to see.
Henry Kaestner: I love that. I love that concept. You've seen it lives out in your business as you talking about, just completely redeeming the cost model and the commission model and just the sense that we get as we listen to this is that as Christ's followe we have an opportunity to redeem industries that could be redeemed and do it for the for the betterment of others. There's a concept that you alluded to at the beginning, almost like an injustice that some of the larger institutions, maybe their wealthy network family offices and you understand how this works from a market dynamic about why they can get special rates and special cost considerations and special advice, maybe at the expense of the of the common man. But that led you to create in Endowus. So I think that I think there's a lot there. One of the other things that you've written about and thought about and I want to ask you how this manifests itself in your own life. You've talked about how Christians and and our audience is probably familiar with our 12 Marks, the call to create Identity in Christ, etc. One of them is really important. One is being joyfully generous. And you said in some of your writing there, Christians have an opportunity or should even give more than they take. How does that manifest itself in your life? What do you and your wife like to give to?
Sam Rhee: Yeah. No, I mean, I think there's a fundamental concept that we are optimists as this is the way of Jesus. He gave more than he took from I mean, he had so much more. But, you know, and that that generosity, that radical generosity is even in Jesus's time, what really set him apart, I think. And so I think we it's something that we can definitely learn from him in this day. You know, our heart is in education, in children. And, you know, so those are the areas that we give to apart from church. But the other people that really have we have a heart for and that's maybe because I am a PK but ministers like pastors and missionaries themselves and their families and their children. So that's that's a place we have a really deep heart for. And we love to serve them and we love to give and, you know, find ways in which we can encourage and help them. And one of the reasons why my wife is studying, you know, that area is because we want to help, you know, pastors and their families and their children.
Henry Kaestner: Sam, you blessed us. Thank you for sharing your story and encouraging us and being a leader and the in the movement, both in Singapore but also now in the states.
Sam Rhee: Thank you so much.
Wen Li Lim: Thank you so much, Sam.
Sam Rhee: Thanks guys.
Wen Li Lim: And thank you for your time. And we're really looking forward to yeah, kind of working close together. And thank you for listening into our audience. God bless and see you the next episode.
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