3 Entrepreneurs Speak on the Need for Community with Mickey Peters, Scott Weiss, and Dude Perfect's Coby Cotton
In this masterclass-style episode of the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast, we highlight three unique ways that community can shape the lives of entrepreneurs.
Dude Perfect's Coby Cotton gives insight into how his tight-knit community of college friends has had to learn how to live as co-founders and leaders of one of the largest entertainment brands in the country.
Mickey Peters shares how his lack of community nearly brought him to complete ruin and how finding community has helped him recover.
And Scott Weiss talks about why the OCEAN Accelerator programs have always emphasized the need for community amongst the entrepreneurs they serve.
If you'd like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.
Coby Cotton's Full Episode: https://www.faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/podcast-inventory/episode-176-dude-perfect-the-worlds-most-trusted-source-of-entertainment-with-coby-cotton
Mickey Peter's Full Episode: https://www.faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/podcast-inventory/episode-208-death-of-a-lone-wolf-with-mickey-peters
Scott Weiss Full Episode: https://www.faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/blog/2019/5/21/combating-loneliness-with-community-scott-weiss-ocean-accelerator
All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific advice for any individual or organization.
Episode Transcript
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Joey Honescko: I don't know if it's nostalgia after passing 300 episodes, or me just looking for every bit of wisdom I can find for my own entrepreneurial journey. But I've been digging through the podcast archives recently, and it's allowed me to hear from a variety of folks, even from way back in the vault. So today, as we wrap up this little focus on community and friendship, I wanted to bring back some old episodes that most of our listeners probably haven't heard. We'll borrow from conversations with three different leaders who have experienced the benefits of community in different ways. First, we'll hear a bit from Mickey Peters, an international CEO whose lack of community nearly led him to ruin as he buckled under the weight of leading a large company. Then we'll head to Cincinnati and hear from Scott Weis, who is the now retired but founding CEO of the Ocean Accelerator Program, some really dear friends of ours in the faith driven movement. He talks about why they have always emphasized the need for community so early in the lives of entrepreneurs. And lastly, we'll hear from dude Perfect's Coby Cotton, whose tight knit community of college friends suddenly became a community of co-founders. He'll share how they've navigated those complex waters as they've become one of the most recognizable entertainment brands in the country. I'm Johanna Nasco, and I'll be popping in to guide you through each of these conversations, but you'll also hear the voices of Henry Kastner, Rusty Roof and William Norvell as they go through the interviews. All that is coming up on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast, so let's get into it.
Henry Kaestner: Let's start off with some of the basics. And then, as God has led you to today, and then. Yes, absolutely. Please bring us through the story that you and Stephanie have gone through. Please.
Mickey Peters: So, born in Fresno, California, middle child, elder younger sister and I moved around a lot when I was really young, but really raised in Texas. My father was he managed a factory in Mexico, a large textile factory, and we were a very devout Catholic, which meant we went to church every Sunday, going through all the sacraments when I was growing up. But it really wasn't a big part of my life. It was just kind of a check the box thing. And one of the things early on that has marked my journey over and over again, and we'll share more about this. But I was exposed to pornography when I was young, about 10 or 11 years old at home. And so I learned over from that point forward, using the porn as a way to, they say, medicate my emotions. If I didn't like the way I felt, if I was feeling any negative sadness, any negative feeling or frustration, I learned to escape through looking at porn from a very early age. And so then I went to Texas A&M University. I'm an Aggie. I was in the Corps of Cadets, which is, you know, ROTC program that you live together in barracks, you know, spend all your time together marching and all that good stuff. So it's a very active ROTC program. I met my first wife there, graduated from Vietnam with an accounting degree, and really, I would say Met Christ at Texas A&M and, you know, ended up marrying. It was my first wife, and we were in Houston getting a job and working first with Ernst in. Back then it was Ernst and winning now really, and was an auditor for about four years and then went to really Duke Energy who was not at the time. And then she became Duke Energy. And my first marriage ended up not working out. My first wife left me for another man. But a lot of that time I was acting out with pornography. And, you know, that was I was also very active in my church. I was very active in Sunday school and, you know, very, very present on Sundays and during the week, but also very much addicted to pornography. So then after my divorce, really acting out a lot more. But I met my second wife and still my wife, Stephanie, my current wife, and, but had done no work and worked on myself and had not overcome that addiction. At this point, it was definitely an addiction. And so we got married, moved to Lima, Peru, and I was still with Duke Energy and was named the CEO of their business in Peru. In Ecuador, I was in my early 30s, was way over my head, you know, spoke a little Spanish. I was managing a pretty good sized company for, about $300 million in revenues and 300 employees. So, you know, I was just, you know, very, very much beyond myself. So sleepless nights, you know, I was really stressed out. My boss was not very supportive. And I had, as you said, no support network. I was again active in my church. I was actually in charge of stewardship, but began again acting out sexually to relieve that stress. I had nowhere to go, nobody to talk to, no way to get any encouragement or support. And so I went back to the old behavior, right. Which was to act, sexually. But at this time, this is a progressive disease. So at this point, I started acting, I was prostitutes and eventually had an affair with a woman and got her pregnant. And so I had to share that with Stephanie. And that is where our journey of recovery and healing began. Coming home, talking to our pastor who had married us, you know, emeritus, five years earlier, I had to say, well, here's where we are today. You know, tough conversation. But he directed us to some great resources. And I got in, you know, diagnosed as, sex addict and got into recovery, which was a very, very important milestone to get into. The 12 step program moved to Brazil, where we lived for seven years, which again, you know, the big change from Peru to Brazil was living transparently, living openly and also with others, with Stephanie. But also we had a home church, you know, we had a small group, other expats, and really were open with them about our story and formed really a familial bond with that group, about 6 or 7 other families. And so we were very close, and that was probably my first small group, if you will, is that group of families were still very close to this day and then moved back to Houston in 2010. And really, as far as entrepreneurial, we bought into a franchise and opened a few locations, found a local church still at the same church, active in our church, and again joined a small group of men. Continue to be active in recovery with, you know, sponsoring others and going to meetings. We started working with a group called the Fair Recovery and telling our story and mentoring other couples who were going through similar crisis in their marriage and still doing that to this day. And so, yeah, just really continue to build, as you said earlier, a network of support, not only where we get that support, but where we can also give support.
William Norvell: Thank you, William here. Thank you for sharing. I'm curious, as entrepreneurs can think that, you know, too busy two overwhelmed. You kind of have to commit to family and work and that's it. I just don't have time for anything. And I know part of your story is just how the importance of community and having that around you. I'd love for you to share a little bit about how that was important and has been important and still is important in your life, and maybe some words of wisdom for entrepreneurs that may think, hey, you know, I've only got time for a couple things and you know, that's not one of them, right? I got to stay laser focused. How would you maybe answer that or encourage someone on that journey?
Mickey Peters: Well, I mean, you know, entrepreneurial is pain, right? Being an entrepreneur is suffering. You know, sleepless nights. Am I going to have enough cash to make the payroll? You know, are we going to get to the end of the cycle? And, you know, God didn't make us to do life alone, and that includes business. We need others. And so, you know, you had the obvious, you know, just processing things, learning from their experience. Other than I was in Ypo in Brazil, a young president's organization and as a part of a small group through that, and you learn from each other's experience is not a spiritual element. There's so much but just, you know, hey guys, I'm struggling with this, you know, getting others input. And the main thing is the part that when I was in Peru, you know, tossing and turning at one in the morning, feel like you're alone. You're all alone and you're trying to figure it out in your head. How can I get over this hump? How can I, you know, solve this problem and it doesn't work. I couldn't figure it out. You know, fast forward when you have people you can talk to. First of all, I'm not alone. You know, I just immediately get some relief just from that. But then being able to talk about it and get some input from somebody else has faced a similar problem before. Hey, try this. You know me. Connect you to this guy or this person, this organization. Oh, okay. You know, there's a solution out there. I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I don't have to, you know, try to solve it on my own. And really, it's the way I look at it today is it's a form of discipleship. You know, Jesus told us to go and make disciples. We kind of always think of that in a church context. But as an entrepreneur, you know, when you're out there and you're feeling the pain and the struggle of being an entrepreneur, you're able to get vulnerable. When you're in pain, you're willing to be vulnerable. And, hey, I need help. I'm dying here. And so if they I love what you guys are doing with the small groups, and then you're able to ask for help from your peers, people that are on the same journey with you much as we do in recovery. And so then. Wow. Good idea. Thank you for that. You know, immediately, a lot of that pressure and tension is relieved and you have a way forward. And then of course, you can give back. Maybe you're the guy that has an idea or the solution. You're able to reach out, hey, dude, you know you're going to get through this. It's going to be okay. You know, this too shall pass. And so it's just the way God made us, I believe, is to do these things together. And that's what Jesus modeled force in the disciples, you know, 12 disciples in a small group. And so I think it's really the way, especially in our culture today, a great way to do discipleship is in groups like you guys have, where you're in a similar journey. You're able to, you know, get vulnerable, get help, give help, and then maybe take that home and maybe take that to your church or into your community and basically disciple, right, with Jesus's last command, go therefore and make disciples.
William Norvell: So it's in there somewhere.
Mickey Peters: Yeah, exactly.
William Norvell: Oh, Amen. Well, thank you for mentioning that. It's, you know, definitely was a part of the creation of the Efd groups and how the team is scaled. That is just to have people wherever you can, wherever you are. And, you know, sometimes that's local. And of course, now in this world, it doesn't have to be. You can have a great friend across the world that can be there for you, and a text message in a video call, as we unfortunately have come to a wrap, one of the things we love to do at the end of our episodes is invite our guests to share a little bit of from God's Word on what may be stirring in their heart these days. So this could be a verse you read this morning. It could be a verse you've been meditating on for some time. It could be a version of meditating on your whole life. But we just love to remind our audience that God's Word is alive and moving, and they're moving through all of us. And so we love to invite you to share that, if you wouldn't mind.
Mickey Peters: So we put my glasses on. So this verse is the comfort thing, right. And so the verse was comfort important to Jesus is the question. And so the verse is Luke, Luke 22 at the end of Jesus ministry. And he's telling Peter that he's going to die. And I am here it is. Chapter 22. Luke 22 verse 32 says, but I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers. And so the only thing he tells him, right? The only instruction he gives him is to comfort his brothers, strengthen, encourage. And so, obviously, those are his last words to Peter before, you know. But when you overcome your disappointment and frustration for denying me, be sure you encourage brothers a little bit further on. When he's in the Garden of Gethsemane and he asked God to remove this cup if there's any way, any other way, and God says, no, you know there is no other way. Yeah. And they say that angels came and comforted him. And so in his time of need, you know, God sent an angel to comfort him. So, you know, if it was important to Jesus, it should be important to us, right?
Joey Honescko: Mickey story reminds us of the potential downstream effects that come from the lone wolf mentality. It is so essential for entrepreneurs to address this deep need early in their careers, and that's why the Ocean Accelerator in Cincinnati has always prioritized community for the founders they work with. They see the reality that technical skills and grit will only get you so far. Faith driven entrepreneurs especially need others for guidance, support and encouragement. So in this next segment, Scott Weiss will tell us a little bit about the origin of the Ocean Accelerator. And then he's going to talk about why they have always emphasized the need for community early in the lives of the entrepreneurs they serve.
Henry Kaestner: We'd love to get started with you talking about the origin story. How did ocean get started? What was your involvement and then bridge into what ocean does today?
Scott Weiss: Oh, that's a great question. As origin stories are so unique story. So picture a senior pastor walking through a large atrium of a church in Cincinnati. He's walking through every day, day after day, and he sees the same young millennial guys pounding away on their laptops. That pastor's name is Brian. And tell him Brian's a pretty impatient guy. So he finally stops and ask one of them, why are you here? Why do not have a job? And the young guy, a gentleman named Tim Michener, answers him. I'm starting a company as the atrium, open to the public, provides free Wi-Fi and has free coffee. And Tim walks Bryan around and points out ten different startups. Half of them were being led by Congress who do not attend that church. Probably had no relationships. Brian's blown away and is a really curious guy and says, hey, I will host a breakfast for anybody from this movement who wants to be there and I will disciple you. I will provide leadership lessons that are gospel based and let's see where this goes. So about ten people said yes, and six months into it, Brian had discipled them long enough and said, hey, you have to have an active service. You know, key part of that, being a disciple, being a follower, is to serve others. So they decided to put up a sign in that church that I attended that said, hey, Wednesday night we're going to do this very informal gathering. No video, no PowerPoint, no music. We're going to call it unpolished, really rock. And if you're an entrepreneur or if you're interested in after worship and you want to hear three founders talk about their journey and kind of reveal how God shows up in that journey. Come on over. Set up the room for 90 people. 450 people walked in the door.
Henry Kaestner: Oh my goodness.
Scott Weiss: Wow. Yeah. Now we know. Now what we did not know that we know now that desperate, lonely struggle that entrepreneurs face. We know now that it's half the people who attend. Anything we do publicly are not a member of any church, and they attend because they are desperately lonely. And if you throw a networking event where I can meet other people who are on this journey, or I might find a customer or a future co-founder or an investor, I'm showing up now. These attendees were all over the board. They're high tech, their main street. They're three years post-launch, they're three years pre-launch. They're all over the board. They're incredibly diverse. About 60% of the people who show up to ocean events are female. When we told them locally, about 20% people of color in that index, in a city that's about 12% people of color. So this is really mind blowing, right? So I'm gonna keep going and we start to have more frequent events. And then that same original crowd of ten, three of them had launched high tech businesses. Two of them, I believe, are doing to other accelerators. And they had found experience pretty soul deadening, pretty difficult. And they said we ought to try to launch an accelerator specifically targeting fast growth, high tech businesses that integrates their low code principles, particularly around leadership, how you lead your own life, how you lead a company, how you connect that to the mission God set down for you. And we launched it. And that's when I came into the picture in 2014. We decided to go. In 2015, we held our first class. I was just exiting a long career and had sold the company that I was leading, and I had worked in that career for 30 years and knew that balance in my life had to be spent focusing on the knowledge I required and also building the kingdom. So I stepped in as the founding CEO, and here we are five years later, with a much broader operation of ocean programs.
Rusty Rueff: That's really cool. And this rusty, I'm a huge fan of what you're doing and tapping into the entrepreneurial spirit in Cincinnati. How do you think, you know, you've been able to bridge that gap between believers and nonbelievers all feeling comfortable sort of in this ocean that you've created.
Scott Weiss: So ocean, when it was launched, was intentionally launched as an independent nonprofit. So we are from the church and of the church, but not a part of a church. And that was a specific design choice that Brian and I made, because we wanted this to have the potential to attract interest from. Churches throughout the region and throughout the nation. And so crossroads is an incredible partner of ours that we are not a part of crossroads. Rather, we are from an up or down, not answer question. How do we put this all together? I view it as an open door in this discussion about entrepreneurship and faith. It's a long journey, and there are people who specialize in taking companies that are the post revenue and already generating revenue of a profit, and they want to scale. And let's delve into those strategies and really connect with them on their spiritual walk. Work the front end of that, and we want to sell the funnel with people who aspire towards a business, and we want to be in that space for two reasons. First, in our judgment, it's the most at risk space. You're most at risk of losing your identity to your enterprise when you are in the initial stages of it. You have so much to do. You don't know how to do it. Are desperate for funding. You work harder and harder and harder, and all of the research shows you better off from faith, from family units, or from health insurance, or from finance. Anxiety and depression goes through the roof. 60% chance of being diagnosed with depression 60% divorce rate versus a national average system. So we want to be out there because we're so people stepping out of the water and need support and service, and we think we can provide that.
Henry Kaestner: Tell us more about how you work with these companies and these entrepreneurs over time to be able to help them focus on faith and family and and so that they don't become part of the statistics you mentioned.
Scott Weiss: So terrific question. The ocean itself today runs two large training programs, the accelerator, which we have been discussing last about five months. It has a global draw of this year's class. You mentioned one company from Turkey. There's companies from Pakistan, there's a company from London, etc. so that's each other. They also run small business training, which we call Genesis. And that's where people to start businesses in this region or whatever region we operate in. And that's a job engine for any city, right? Local small businesses create jobs. That's a nine week program following six months of mentoring. And I mention that because both of them rest on the same pitching foundation, and we rely on a concept called the five chapter. This gotcha data start with five capitals most important stewardship chapter of our relationship with him, our relational capital, my friendship with Henry, our fiscal capital, my energy level, my health, intellectual capital beyond my knowledge, my skills. I'm a woodworker and I check out the Foundation signature chapter. And this calculation is supported with specific biblical principles and lots of specific lessons. These capitals are not static. They're fluid. They change all the time. And once you understand you have access to five separate chapters, you can begin to face up to various challenges by drawing on where you have strengths, or drawing in friends or relationships that have strengthened that basis. So we base all the content on that. Companies come in to each other. The first thing we do is go away for a weekend retreat. All we talked about is, where are you on your spiritual walk? No matter whether you're Christian or not, we take them through a series of exercises as they go deeper, deeper and deeper into who are you? What's your mission in life? What's your relationship with that big scary guy called God? If you have that relationship, how does that influence your life and why you're here? They come out of that weekend with a sense of where they are on those questions. We then switch gears and for the next two months, we get real heavy at classic high tech stand up content, we focus on three things the commercial things. And about that time they're now making sales tools. They're talking to early stage investors that get their act together. We then go out to another retreat. Again, all we talked about is what is your mission? What are the values you are going to build into this culture you're creating? You're going to be a company and you're a culture creator. What are the values that you're going to imbue in it, and how are you going to sustain them? And from that point forward, which is where we're at this season right now, all we talked about are some of those values from the wife, which is bringing into practice the biblical leadership lessons organized around those five chapters. I started with. The exact same thing happens in our small business training program, Genesis. In our frequent public events and in our conference, we always organized number one, some aspect of one of those five chapters or the interplay of them. So some very consistent teachings, outward bound. That impacts the people in the program. The alumni will remain connected with and the broader public who we try to serve.
William Norvell: That's really interesting, Scott. One of the things that I always find interesting on entrepreneurial journeys is just the surprises and the twists and turns that it typically takes people on. As you have been shepherding people through the entrepreneurial journeys. What might be surprised you the most that you know, as you look back over 5 or 6 years, what would surprise you? What's really interesting that you found out about how people go down this journey? We had another guest, Julie Barrios, talk about entrepreneurship as a spiritual discipline, right? It is so unique in what it takes people through, and the trials and tribulations and the ups and the downs. And just interested in your view from the people you've walked with.
Scott Weiss: Yeah, I heard that talk to someone who was profoundly wise and such. And since you breakfast, I can now see that intergender this match. So I really appreciate your.
Henry Kaestner: Please do, please do. Luckily, the things that we use on this podcast. We've stolen from you and you'll notice we never get credit. Hahaha.
Scott Weiss: I think you know, from my personal perspective it's such an act creation. And acts of creation are tumultuous. They're uncertain. They have episodic violence, that physical violence, but violence as walking away from old paradigms, destroying old beliefs, walking away from relationships that are holding you back. So you're literally destroying some things, if not permanently, to gain new things. And so as I engage with the participants and my wife Cheryl, and I always some group dinners at our house, and over the course of any accelerator, every founder and his or her family or their employees, we have them over to the house for dinner, so we try to provide some personal support. It's all inspiring to me the steadfast courage that the founders displayed in the face of daunting timelines and clear uncertainty, that they just keep chopping the wood, they just keep going. And I had never been this close to pure entrepreneurship. I've started a bunch of things that are in a different format with a lot more resources, and to just watch that. And particularly when you're standing on one side and walking alongside a believer who is starting this as a believer, and to watch their faith grow as they connect to two weeks worth the journey they're on. And they begin to connect the dots that I'm creating a business as God created, and I'm trying to replicate the lessons she laid down. And of course, none of us will ever be gods. But to replicate those lessons and try to walk that out and to watch that growth and somebody and then I get to sit in a real special place.
Joey Honescko: Our final guest today has had to think a little differently about community than our other two. Coby Cotton and four of his closest friends started Dude Perfect almost by accident when they were still in college. Since then, of course, they have grown to become one of the most influential entertainment brands in the country, with well over 60 million YouTube subscribers. Each of those founding members have had to navigate the complex waters of starting and scaling a business with your friends. Their company and their community are deeply intertwined. So in the final segment of the show, Coby unpacks how they have managed to keep their relationship intact as Dude Perfect continues to grow.
Henry Kaestner: There's so many different things I want to talk about in the program, in terms of the team dynamic and your faithful obedience in the same direction, and how you keep things going over and over. I want to get into the question that I've been thinking about, as I was looking forward to our interview today, which is you got five guys around and each of you play a really, really important role. Talk to us about that team dynamic, because there's a chemistry that you guys have that is amazing. And I think part of your appeal. And yet that's got to be hard to do. And just tell us about how that works. Presumably there's a lot of stuff also that goes on behind the scenes. So walk us through the team dynamic.
Coby Cotton: That's a great question, Henry. I think it's part of the appeal and that's always part of the challenge as well. Right. I think there's benefits and cons to having five guys in kind of an entertainment company like we do, right? We were just out filming with a guy who was an individual, and we were talking about how challenging it would be if everything rode on just you. Right. So we have this ability to share kind of the spotlight and the creative challenges of coming up with things with the other four guys. But at the same time, you know, it's not an individually led, typical CEO running a company type standpoint, right? Where there's all these shared opinions and sometimes it can be difficult to come to consensus. So there's definitely pros and cons. I think what we've been so grateful for is that each of the five of us do have natural gifts and skill sets. And so honestly, from the very beginning that way we broke up. Kind of the business roles and responsibilities is where we are today. 12 years later, I've kind of run a lot of the business side. My brother has spearheaded the production management. At first he was the one doing all the editing and now he's managing that team. Tyler runs and leads all the creative. He's the one who says he thinks of cool ideas. That's just something that happens to him. Garrett has run our merchandise and our financial staff, and Cody has run our social media for all these years. And so kind of all the natural events and abilities between the five of us has really been so helpful in just shouldering that load. Yeah, from the beginning.
William Norvell: It's amazing. I mean, you guys have built a business too. As you mentioned earlier, all five of you all do different parts of the business. One of the things I would love to jump into Kobe, I mean, you know, so 12 years, 12 years running a business, you know, I think we could get sucked into stories and fun and all those things. You guys have been running a business, you've been running an entity. It sounds like you're you're probably all close with your wives, too. You went to college together. I mean, that's a long time to manage through friendship. Manage through business. I'd love, if you wouldn't mind, share maybe a couple the difficulties of going through that over the years that you can think back on, and maybe how you guys figured out a way to manage through that together with multiple intertwined friendships, multiple intertwined families. I just think that's so fascinating to dive into.
Coby Cotton: Yeah. I mean, it is a long time, right? 12 years crazy that we've been doing it for that long and anybody's done anything for 12 years. Knows that there's ups and downs. Right. And so we actually made it was I think it was two years ago now we came out with a documentary on YouTube, which was a ton of fun, and it tells our whole story. So for anybody who's interested in seeing all this in video format, you just type in the Dude Perfect documentary on YouTube. It's I mean, it's a 90 minute movie, basically. So it's not a quick five minute watch, but if you had the time, I think you really enjoy it, really proud of it, but it shows kind of some of those ups and downs as well. And I just think probably the biggest one is just friendship over time. I think for us, you know, the bedrock of the business really is five friends. And so we have learned over time with good counselors and friends around us of, hey, like, y'all have to protect that friendship and you have to work through conflict together. Because if you don't, you know, the whole business could crater based on just the five of you guys and the closeness there. And so for us, obviously, our faith is at the bedrock of that. And we each have to have a strong, abiding relationship with Christ. And then, you know, it's important to all of us that we are each involved in community, where we have people around us who don't care that we're doing perfect, don't care that we have all the subscribers that we have and can speak into our lives. And then we do. Like I said, we've gotten better. I can't say it's been perfect, but we've gotten better at resolving conflict between the five of us. The phrase we use as guys to make it easier is we sort ourselves. So if somebody needs to own something, they say, hey, look, I'm a sword myself on that. And that was on me. I'm taking that one and owning that. And so I think that has been significant for us over time.
Joey Honescko: Well, folks, that's a wrap for today's episode. If you are an entrepreneur looking for community, check out our groups page on our website. There you'll find information about our no cost, no catch communities, where a handful of like minded leaders meet for eight weeks and discuss what it means to live as a faith driven entrepreneur. You can learn more at Faith Driven Entrepreneur Gorgui groups. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.