Society trusts entrepreneurs twice as much as pastors. This isn’t bad news—it’s the church’s greatest opportunity. Mark Grunden and Josh Seabaugh reveal why traditional “faith and work” approaches lose entrepreneurs, while starting with entrepreneur-focused ministry creates cascading impact throughout entire congregations.

Recorded at FDE’s Charleston staff retreat, this conversation unpacks lessons from Saddleback Church’s 30-year marketplace ministry journey, recent transitions from pastoral roles to entrepreneurship, and the simple steps any church can take to become a hub for faith-driven entrepreneurs in their city.

00:00 Barna research: Entrepreneurs trusted 2X more than pastors

01:15 Charleston staff retreat and the significance of church steeples

04:42 Mark’s journey: From church plant to Saddleback to FDE

06:20 Two counter-narratives: Declining numbers yet God is moving

07:55 Josh’s story: 10 years marketplace, 10 years pastoral ministry

11:22 The moment we’re in: When did marketplace ministry become normal?

12:38 Why business lunches lose steam after six months

15:14 Society is looking for action-oriented leadership

17:56 Church partnership opportunity overview

18:43 Entrepreneurs need each other in this unprecedented moment

20:09 Pastors transitioning to marketplace have more pastoral conversations

21:33 The “do it all” trap: Why churches get paralyzed

23:22 If you start with everybody, you’ll never get the entrepreneur

25:55 Entrepreneurs are time-starved—give them what speaks to them

27:46 Pastors and entrepreneurs: More alike than different

29:25 Entrepreneurs don’t demand things, they build things

30:30 How entrepreneurs can bridge the gap with their church

32:59 Safe place to wander: What entrepreneurs actually need

33:48 Hockey arena and mall examples: Churches dreaming entrepreneurially

37:35 Foundation Groups and the eight-week pathway

38:50 Simple first steps for entrepreneurs and churches

40:46 The network of 250 churches becoming entrepreneur hubs

42:14 No cost, no catch—just partnership

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Mark Vroegop serves as President of The Gospel Coalition, but his journey through thirty years of pastoral ministry—including profound personal loss—gives him unique insight into why the faith and work movement struggles to connect with local churches. In this honest conversation, Mark addresses the mutual intimidation, schedule blindness, and missed opportunities keeping pastors and entrepreneurs from the partnership both desperately need.

Beyond theory, Mark offers practical wisdom from two books addressing universal human experiences: Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy explores lament as the biblical language for grief (including business failure and betrayal), while his work on waiting addresses how leaders navigate gaps when outcomes remain uncertain. For entrepreneurs facing closure, pivots, or partnership betrayals—and pastors bearing leadership weight—this episode provides both theological framework and actionable next steps.

00:00 Introduction: Bringing faith and work back to the local church

01:34 What is The Gospel Coalition?

02:49 Leading a council of 45 diverse pastors

04:04 Theological triage: Keeping main things main

05:42 Current challenges facing the church today

07:26 Information overload and AI’s impact on truth

09:31 Gospel Coalition’s AI Christian Benchmark Report

10:33 Should the church engage AI or wait and see?

12:15 Faith and work integration comes to the church

13:31 Faith and work 2.0: Beyond valuing work to church partnership

14:56 Why business leaders need to be good churchmen

16:00 Why are pastors and entrepreneurs missing each other?

17:18 Week in the life of a pastor breakdown

19:49 Translating pastoral demands into entrepreneur language

21:04 Where entrepreneurs could help pastors most

22:28 The missing platform and presence problem

23:44 Meeting business leaders in their world

25:44 Dark seasons: Introduction to lament

26:54 Defining lament as prayer in pain leading to trust

28:42 Grieving business closure and entrepreneurial loss

30:07 Four types of lament in the Psalms

31:06 Why leaders need permission to lament

33:29 Navigating uncertain seasons and gaps

34:44 Waiting on the Lord through uncertainty

36:20 Gaps in biblical stories we often miss

37:21 Psalm 27: Waiting as a position of strength

38:51 Building waiting into your strategic plan

39:33 When gaps become uncomfortable and idols emerge

40:17 Next steps and practical application

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Andrew DeVaney didn’t set out to build a four-pillar community development model. It started with a friendship—staying with a rural Ugandan educator and witnessing firsthand how education, healthcare, agriculture, and employment challenges are deeply interconnected in communities where the majority live on subsistence farming.

Now As One Africa operates seven locations with 420 full-time Ugandan staff, serving 4,000 students, 50,000 patients, and training 5,000 smallholder farmers per location. But the real innovation isn’t the scale—it’s the model. By treating beneficiaries as customers and building earned revenue streams, they’re creating sustainable solutions that don’t depend on foreign aid.

Discover why Uganda’s young population represents massive opportunity, how storytelling can shift narratives about Africa, and what it takes to stay in the game long enough to see real transformation happen.

00:00 Introduction: Solving big problems together

01:53 Geography 101: Understanding Uganda’s context

02:16 50 million people in the size of Oregon

03:23 The demographic advantage: Africa’s young population

03:51 Why young people expect better from their leaders

05:12 The big problem: Rural service delivery challenges

06:09 Empowering Ugandans to solve Ugandan problems

09:04 “You want to catch a thief, send a thief”

09:11 Coming alongside vs. replacing local leadership

11:55 Sustainability through earned revenue models

13:27 From beneficiaries to customers with voice

14:12 Community buy-in through financial investment

16:54 Scale overview: 7 locations, 420 staff, thousands served

17:41 Why these four pillars? Schools, health, farms, business

18:52 The interconnectivity of rural poverty

19:32 Many players needed to solve big problems

20:16 The airport analogy: Building economies takes collaboration

21:52 Overcoming scarcity mindset for abundant Kingdom thinking

22:09 Starting with conversations and relationships

24:29 Abundance mindset: There’s so much out there

24:52 The church’s unprecedented resources today

25:08 Praxis impact: Venture building meets soul care

25:25 Balancing what we create with who we are

27:18 Time in the game: Long obedience in the same direction

28:30 Creative problem-solving with moving goalposts

29:04 Not just what we do, but how we do it

29:48 Re-risking and staying in the game

30:21 Humble ambition in the Praxis community

30:49 The power of storytelling: Shifting African narratives

31:54 Telling stories with dignity and possibility

32:32 Hope rooted in resurrection: Neither pessimist nor optimist

33:33 Supporting actors: Letting Ugandans be the heroes

34:01 Words don’t just describe reality—they create it

34:21 Check out As One Africa: asonearica.org

34:43 Closing: Where to get involved and learn more

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For 100 years, one boat company has proven that standing firm on values—even when it costs everything—creates enduring success. Bill Yeargin, CEO of Correct Craft, shares the remarkable stories that form the foundation of this century-old business, from refusing to work Sundays during WWII to spending 20 years of profits repaying debts they didn’t legally owe.

When Bill arrived as the fifth CEO in five years, everything was broken. The Great Recession was about to hit. But through culture-rebuilding, strategic planning, and controversial decisions like company-funded global service trips, Correct Craft grew from $39 million to over $1 billion. Bill reveals the two undeniable “God moments” that convinced him to take the role, why the Mexico trip everyone opposed became the turning point, and how they navigate the tension between faith values and stewardship excellence.

This conversation offers practical wisdom for any entrepreneur building for generations, not just quarters—including why they don’t have an exit strategy for acquisitions, how they expand to 70 countries without compromising values, and what it means to make decisions for the next 25 years.

00:00 Introduction: Celebrating 100 years of Correct Craft

01:10 Filming with Right Now Media a decade ago

01:45 The Malone family origin story in 1925 Florida

02:46 World War II: 420 boats in 23 days without working Sundays

05:00 The bankruptcy story: Refusing a bribe, paying back discharged debts

06:57 Five CEOs in five years: The challenging era

07:43 From $39M to over $1 billion through recession and growth

09:14 What made Bill consider the fifth CEO position

10:13 Walking away the first time, reconsidering the second

11:28 God moment #1: The dream house sells to the penny

13:16 God moment #2: The tutor asks to be released

14:50 What values tested by government teach us

16:52 The Mexico service trip that saved the company

17:40 Why almost everyone thought it was a bad idea

18:25 “Best few days of my life”: The turning point moment

19:41 Why pay for trips instead of writing checks

20:34 Ripple effects: Inspiring the next generation

21:48 How service trips connect the “why” for teams and families

22:33 Global growth and acquisition strategy

24:33 How values translate across products and countries

25:27 The Culture Pyramid: Building Boats to the Glory of God

26:02 Navigating difficult decisions as stewards

28:32 When stewardship looks inconsistent with faith values

29:37 Surprise geography: Nautique boats in Namibia

30:40 Horizontal and vertical integration strategy

31:37 Like-minded capital and protecting seller legacies

32:57 Celebrating a 100th birthday as a company

34:17 Making investments for the next hundred years

35:20 Innovation in wake technology and industry recognition

36:39 Proverbs 3:5-10: Staying on your side of the equation

38:05 Legacy of standing for values through every challenge

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When Jean-Paul Nageri’s father lost half his banana harvest to spoilage while waiting for traders who never showed up on time, most people would see a painful loss. Jean-Paul saw a divine assignment. Working from a one-bedroom house with samples sent by a German scientist he’d never met, Jean-Paul discovered how to extend produce shelf life by 10x using only natural plant oils—no refrigeration required.

KaFresh is now transforming food security across Africa by addressing the invisible crisis: 30-50% of food produced never reaches consumers due to post-harvest spoilage. While Western solutions like cold storage cost $100,000 and require reliable electricity, Jean-Paul’s approach works at room temperature using the preservation secrets God engineered into orange peels. The result? Avocados lasting 60 days instead of 1 week, tomatoes staying fresh for 3+ months, and sweet potatoes preserved for 5 months—all without synthetics or refrigeration.

This episode takes you inside the journey of “God Engineering”—looking to creation for clues to solve massive problems. From Genesis 1:29 inspiration to fighting synthetic fungicides with natural glycerides, Jean-Paul shares how context-specific innovation empowers 2 million Ugandan farmers, reduces food costs by 90%, and creates a mindset shift across the entire agricultural value chain.

00:00 Introduction: Make America (and Africa) Healthy Again

00:49 Welcome to Nairobi: When entrepreneurs step in as problem solvers

01:43 Jean-Paul’s origin story: Watching his father’s harvest spoil

02:54 The scale of the crisis: Africa loses $1 trillion annually to food waste

04:03 Studying Agriculture Science at Uganda Christian University

04:51 Why cold storage and chemical fungicides weren’t the answer

06:03 The turning point: Looking to nature and asking God

07:18 The oil discovery: How orange peels naturally preserve longer

08:53 Two paths to food scarcity: Production vs. preservation

09:35 KaFresh breakthrough: Doubling and tripling shelf life

11:20 The personal motivation behind rejecting synthetics

13:55 “Make America Healthy Again” resonates in Kenya too

15:01 Cancer crisis and tracing food system contamination

16:15 Innovation from the ground truth, not ivory towers

17:06 Genesis 1:29 and plant-based science inspiration

18:50 Farmers losing over 50% of harvests post-harvest

20:29 Mile 10 Lagos market: 90% tomato loss case study

21:38 Why Western cold chain solutions don’t scale in Africa

23:56 History of food preservation: 1800s monks and beeswax

26:00 World War I and the turn to unsafe synthetic preservatives

27:47 Concrete for cabbages, formalin for fruit: Dangerous methods today

29:33 God’s way of engineering solutions for His glory

30:52 Connection with German scientist providing rare ingredients

33:11 Daily photo time-lapses proving the miracle

34:52 When produce thinks it’s still on the mother plant

37:40 The validation moment: Empowering his father against exploitative traders

39:32 “God Engineering”: Connecting the dots He leaves as clues

42:30 Uganda’s 2 million farmers as the backbone of the country

45:23 The mindset shift: Like small business owners in America

47:35 Expanding beyond preservation: GrowFresh for seed germination

49:09 Making insects invisible to produce instead of killing them

50:04 Innovating with farmers: Listening to powder form preferences

52:40 How God speaks through amazing teammates

54:11 The power of stories to help people see differently

56:35 Call to action: Solving world’s greatest problems together

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Bertie Lourens did something most entrepreneurs only talk about—he actually made God the legal majority shareholder of his waste management company. Not symbolically. Not philosophically. Legally. Through a non-profit structure, 51% of his shares now belong to an entity representing God’s ownership, complete with accountability structures that could remove Bertie if he walks away from his commitment.

But this radical decision came only after near disaster. Seven years into building a successful business with South Africa’s top retail mentor, Bertie faced a sheriff at his door with orders to shut everything down. In that moment of bankruptcy, he surrendered everything to God—and two miracles followed that gave his business a second lifeline. Shortly after, God asked him to give shares away, leading to the creation of Neko Capital and a journey of discovering what it really means to steward a business “with Him” rather than “for Him.”

Bertie shares vulnerably about the pride that nearly destroyed him, the freedom he found in surrender, and how he’s raising children without entitlement while serving 2,300 staff members across 10 South African cities. This conversation moves the phrase “God owns my business” from bumper sticker theology to boardroom reality.

00:00 Introduction: From bumper sticker to reality

01:59 Attending C12 Conference in Texas

03:18 The business model: Turning waste into opportunity

06:33 Beyond the phrase: Making God’s ownership real

07:14 How pride nearly destroyed everything

08:34 The sheriff at the door: Facing bankruptcy

10:14 Two kingdoms: Building his vs. building His

12:02 Meeting Francho and learning about Neko Capital

13:21 What does the Shareholder want? Changing boardroom questions

15:54 The David and Goliath moment of decision

18:00 Accountants, lawyers, and the caution of giving away ownership

19:28 The daily fight: What is important to our King?

21:45 Choosing complexity over comfort

22:28 The four essentials: Obedience in relationship with God

24:42 Spiritual alignment in the boardroom

26:38 Raising kids without entitlement

28:20 Teaching gratitude through your own bankruptcy story

29:56 What stops people from making this jump?

30:45 The comfort of security vs. dependence on God

31:59 Benefits of surrender: Freedom from founder’s burden

34:52 The Elon Musk thought experiment

36:45 Joining the chorus: Stories of radical stewardship

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Journey with 10-15 other Entrepreneurs through the
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