This article was originally published on The Praxis Journal by Praxis Labs.

— by Wesley Cate

Some of the most significant ideas and institutions in history originated from loosely organized groups of friends. Yet friendship is often overlooked as a source of entrepreneurial and creative vitality.

In the Four Loves, C.S. Lewis wrote that major social movements from civilized religion to the Renaissance and the Reformation originated with small groups of friends. For Lewis, companions who share a common view of the world and stand shoulder-to-shoulder in some endeavor — he called them “little knots of friends” — harbor the potential for revolutionary creativity.

Distinct from the typical friendships that most of us are familiar with, there’s a particular kind of friendship that has unusual potency for originating creative and entrepreneurial endeavors. Neither clubs nor cohorts, these inventive friendships are united by a common hope for the world and a desire to take creative action toward that vision — whether through individual undertakings or collaborative enterprises. At their best, these inventive friendships are part of the redemptive fabric of faith in Jesus.

If these groups are instrumental in shaping our ideas and institutions, the question becomes: How might we reimagine the journey of entrepreneurship in light of inventive friendship—and not as an optional accessory, but integral to the creation of enduring value?

To begin, let’s look back across history for a glimpse of how these little knots acted as a significant source of spiritual, creative, and entrepreneurial force. Three groups in particular stand out as paragons: Jesus & the Twelve Disciples; the Clapham Sect; and the Inklings. After considering these historical examples and their shared traits, we’ll turn to two entrepreneur-specific case studies from the Praxis community.

Breakfast, Parliament and Pints

Jesus & the Twelve

In a profoundly ordinary act following His resurrection from the dead, Jesus invited his disciples to “come and have breakfast” on the beach. Such commonplace moments juxtaposed with the miraculous were not out of character for this ragtag group of friends. Throughout their three years together, a rhythm of meals and miracles took shape as they devoted themselves to understanding the mysteries of God’s kingdom and proclaiming its approach. They were participating in the creative act of God’s Kingdom-come even as they broke bread together and lounged alongside Jesus at the table.

In the days prior to the cross, Jesus spelled out a radical dynamic for the disciples. “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends,” He told them. In a few days’ time, Jesus’ words would culminate in a divine act of solidarity when he would literally lay down His life so that enemies could be transformed into friends of God. With Jesus as its head and enabled by the Holy Spirit, this informal group of twelve friends brought about history’s great pivot point.

The Clapham Sect

The Clapham Sect was an informal band of families in 19th-century London best known for bringing about an end to the slave trade in the British Empire. While not a formal organization, it nevertheless existed as a distinct entity. Stephen Tompkins, a biographer of the Clapham Sect, describes the group as:

… a network of friends and families in England, with William Wilberforce as its center of gravity, powerfully bound together by shared moral and spiritual values, by religious mission and social activism, by love for each other, and by marriage.

In addition to their legislative accomplishments, these friends used their influence as businesspeople, philanthropists, Members of Parliament, and clergy to advocate for public causes that ranged from prison reform to Sunday school. They also founded numerous schools, missions, and associations.

Not just devoted to an active public life, the families that made up the Clapham Sect regularly enjoyed one another’s private company. Tompkins writes, “These were people for whom family and friendship were of the utmost importance: they lived in each other’s spare rooms, married each other’s brothers and sisters, prayed together, worked together, dreamed and schemed together, consoled each other, and criticized each other with ruthless honesty.”

At the core of their communal life, though, was a commitment to their faith in Christ. Richard Gathro at the C.S. Lewis Institute explains, “The love of God was the very center of the group’s reason for being together and what became their legacy. From this love sprang a group that changed history.”

The Inklings

On the campus of the University of Oxford in 1930s England, a group of literary enthusiasts regularly gathered to share, shape, and critique one another’s work. With C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien among them, the group’s shared activities shaped modern Christian thought and revived imaginative literature as a widely read genre.

Meeting in university classrooms or at the famed Eagle and Child pub, this gathering of friends, known as the Inklings, shared a common commitment to the Christian faith (with varying degrees of orthodoxy) as well as a love of the written word. The group actively shaped each other’s imaginations through conversation, by critiquing one another’s work, and urging one another on in their creative endeavors. Without the friendship between Lewis and Tolkien, for instance, the Lord of the Rings would have never come to life nor would Christian thought have benefited from C.S. Lewis’ theological works.

In their debates, they explored ideas about the imagination, the revival of Western culture, and the power of story as it relates to the Christian faith — then diffused these ideas through literary works, philosophical treatises, scholarship, lectures, teaching, poetry, and other avenues. Philip and Carol Zaleski call them “an intellectual orchestra, a gathering of sparkling talents in a common cause, each participant the master of his own chosen field.”

The novelist John Wain, a member of the group, remembered the Inklings as “a circle of instigators, almost of incendiaries, meeting to urge one another on in the task of redirecting the whole current of contemporary art and life.”

And there are other inventive friendships whose below-the-radar influence we regularly experience. The self-styled Vagabonds of the early 20th century included the road-tripping “Titans of Industry” — Thomas Edison, Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. The 18th century’s Lunar Society was a group of prominent industrialists who met regularly in each other’s homes and were responsible for a suite of discoveries and inventions during the Industrial Revolution. More recently, the famous friendship between Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky gave rise to the field of behavioral economics. Moreover, the NBA’s “Brotherhood” consisting of LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony and Chris Paul overlap in their family and sports lives, spurring one another on to greater performance on the court as competitors and friends.

A Framework for Inventive Friendship

Despite all their varying personalities and disciplines, inventive friendships share common traits. Foremost is that they exist in the tension between rootedness and visionary discontent — between the gravity of deep relationships and the thrust of entrepreneurial vision. Within this overarching tension, they share five additional characteristics: Friendship before Formality; Inclusiveness; Shared Vision of the Common Good; Mutual Care and Influence; and Creative Intent.

Friendship Before Formality

These groups are friendships first and foremost. Formal organizations and structures might grow from these relationships, but it’s the informal, overlapping circles of friends that are the substance of their creative output. Colin Duriez, a scholar of the Inklings, writes,

The creative and constantly unexpected composition and output of [the Inklings], it appears, was only possible because of its informal nature and commonality of strong affinities rather than identical beliefs.

Likewise, Stephen Tompkins describes the informality of the Clapham Sect, which received its name by accident in an editorial headline: “It was not an organization at all: the people we are talking about had an insatiable passion for forming societies and committees, but the Clapham Sect was not one of them. Had they not been named by [Sir James Stephen], it is unlikely that they would be remembered as anything more concrete than the various friends of William Wilberforce.” Likewise, Jesus and the Twelve lacked any formal structure as they preached and healed their way across first century Palestine.

Inclusiveness

Since these groups lack formality, what constitutes a “member” of an inventive friendship is ambiguous. The Clapham Sect consisted of a core of committed individuals and families but regularly welcomed others from outside their ranks to share in the life and endeavors of the community. Jesus lived most closely with his core twelve, but welcomed other disciples like Mary, Martha, and dozens of others into the redemptive narrative of the group. Among other personalities, the Inklings welcomed C.S. Lewis’ brother Warren, a supply officer from the British Army, into their discussions.

Mutual Care and Influence

Inventive friends display mutual care for each other’s personal well-being as well as their vocational endeavors. For example, J.R.R. Tolkien encouraged C.S. Lewis to consider the Christian faith as an intellectually compelling worldview even while influencing Lewis’ core scholarly work. Tolkien’s multifaceted involvement resulted in Lewis’ conversion, which had significant repercussions on Lewis’ work as a public intellectual. In like manner, Richard Gathro writes that “In spite of the Clapham Sect’s many crusades, life in many ways was centered around their homes with family and friendships as priorities. This was undoubtedly one of the group’s important sources of vitality.” The disciples’ relationship with Jesus was deeply transformative for both their vocations and their personal lives. Fishermen became preachers, and tax collectors became givers, while the disciples learned to love their neighbor as themselves.

Without the personal component, these groups might amount to trade associations. And if they lacked the vocational dimension, they’d be little more than a clique. The focus on each person beyond their role or vocation helps them build the grit necessary for their vocational endeavors.

A Shared Vision of the Common Good

While trustful relationships provide the connective tissue between individuals, a common vision acts as a nucleus for the group. That vision may take on different expressions among the individuals, but they are generally united by a desire to see the renewal of a city, an industry or discipline, a community, or even the restoration of essential societal values. For the Inklings their shared vision related to a revival of Western cultural values; the Clapham Sect dreamed of a moral revival of the British Empire; and Jesus and the Twelve sought after the Kingdom of God on Earth.

Creative Intent

The final factor distinguishing these groups from other friendships is their creative intent — that is, the desire to create toward their shared vision of the common good. Not content to just share a vision, these groups have a bias to bring that vision to reality through creative action.

Lessons on Inventive Friendship from the Field

Portland, Oregon

So what do these dynamics look like in practice for an entrepreneur today? A handful of Praxis Fellows are living out the realities of inventive friendship in their vocations as entrepreneurs. For example, Liz and Ben Bohannon, the founders of Sseko Designs, have sought more intentional community in their Portland, Oregon neighborhood, which has enabled them to pursue new opportunities in their business.

Since moving to Oregon six years ago, the Bohannons have cultivated friendships that have coalesced into something beyond the typical “small group” arrangement. Building on years of gathering informally with friends, they now live in close community with six other families within two square blocks in the city.

Without losing the integrity of the relationships themselves, some structure has grown organically from the underlying friendships. For instance, as a community they agreed on five principles that would bond them: social justice, hospitality, generosity, prayer and meals.

The group also shares a common vision to renew community life in today’s fragmented society. Coming together as engineers, lawyers, entrepreneurs, and physician’s assistants, the community itself is a creative expression of their shared vision. As Liz explained,

It is a community of people who want to create something new, and that is what entrepreneurs do, but more in the context of our community and reinventing how people live and work alongside one another relationally. It’s a very open-minded and creative group of individuals who are thinking in terms of redemption of community, but not exclusively in a business context.

That same vision of community has played out in the Bohannans’ business, as well. Eight years ago Liz and Ben founded Sseko Designs, an apparel company and lifestyle brand that has sought to cultivate a community of justice and opportunity among women in Uganda and the United States. Recently, they shifted their business model from e-commerce to direct-to-consumer retail. “When we decided to shift our retail program it was the biggest risk that we’ve ever taken in the life of our company,” Liz explained. “We had 75 percent of our revenue coming in from our wholesale channel. It was an incredibly risky move.”

Yet the pivot wasn’t oriented around the survival of the business as much as it was around love — that is, inviting a broader cross-section of women into new opportunities and community. In summary, both the creation of the Portland community as well as the Bohannons’ pivot strategy are expressions of creative intent toward their vision for community.

Moreover, the existence of the Portland group as well as the Bohannans’ business strategy were enabled by the mutual care they experienced through these inventive friendships. “We don’t have to juggle our personal and professional lives as much because there’s a community of people that share those burdens together. We see that as a direct correlation to the risks that we’re willing to take in our vocation,” Liz reflected. “One, because we know we have the backing of our community if things don’t work out. And two, the emotional energy that we’re not spending on stress, we can spend on questions like: How do we dream about the next place that the Lord’s calling us to in the workplace?”

Remember that inventive friendship exists in the tension between rootedness and vision. Faithfulness requires longer time horizons, consistency, and at times, a slower pace. Yet an entrepreneurial vision pushes us to build, grow and create. “That’s one of the frictions in our community right now,” Ben explained. “In some ways we’re saying let’s slow down and practice small things. And then there’s the desire to think about scale…How do we affect the whole city of Portland?”

Their shared faith in Jesus supplies the tensile strength to hold everything together. “We share a commitment to Jesus in the sense that we actually want to follow Him in our marriages and in our families,” Ben said. “And if we’re faithful to what Jesus is calling us to individually and supporting one another in that, then things are going to happen.”

The Bohannons’ experience in many ways runs counter to the individualist mindset that pervades much of the startup subculture. Instead of seeing intentional community as a hindrance to entrepreneurship, could it be that community actually enables a higher tolerance for risk, engenders greater resilience, and allows our visions of the common good to bloom?

“When we walk alongside one another toward a common goal and do so in relationship with one another, that’s when we become more fully who we were created to be,” Liz said. “Those sentiments are equally true with what we’re doing for our business as it is in our local community, so I have a hard time believing that that’s coincidental.”

Cincinnati, Ohio

The array of initiatives and friendships that Johnmark Oudersluys and Joe Hansbauer share is difficult to track. In addition to leading two iconic organizations in Cincinnati (CityLink Center and Findlay Marketrespectively), they founded a faith-and-entrepreneurship cohort called LIFE and are in the process of opening City Kitchen Restaurant. Earlier in their friendship they helped to start a number of programs through GiveBack Cincinnati such as Fall Feast, Paint the Town, GiveBack Beyond, and others. They also started a small business to promote local enterprise called Distinctly Local. “We wanted to see what it would be like to run a business together,” Johnmark said. “We got the Chamber and a bunch of businesses involved, but it was break-even at best.”

This flurry of endeavors emerged from a lattice of friendships forged through GiveBack Cincinnati, a young professionals’ association. That original group of friends shared entrepreneurial vigor and a deep care for civic engagement. “This was a group of people who saw the potential of our city and didn’t wait for somebody else to act, and GiveBack gave us the construct to do that,” said Joe.

GiveBack may have been an initial vehicle for creating those linkages, but the friendships have continued to persist outside of that structure. While some individuals have moved on and others have joined, this inventive friendship has retained its cohesion with Johnmark and Joe embodying a shared desire for the flourishing of community in Cincinnati.

That common hope for the city is exemplified in their numerous endeavors directed at the city’s betterment including through the LIFE Group and City Kitchen.

LIFE (Life Innovation Faith Entrepreneurship), an entrepreneurial cohort for Christ-centered leaders, provides a framework for Joe and John’s inventive friendships. “LIFE is now what’s propping up those friendships,” Johnmark explained. “It’s based on the idea of creating an ecosystem for entrepreneurs of faith in Cincinnati.”

When Joe completed his Praxis Fellowship in 2012, he saw a need for a local community of faith-driven entrepreneurs. “I came back to Cincinnati and started calling my network to see if anything like Praxis existed in the area,” Joe said. “No one knew of anything, but they all seemed interested so then I hit up Johnmark and Craig, the Communications and Design Director at Crossroads Church, and the three of us got together to start something.”

The structure of LIFE provides a context in which individuals can relate around ideas and common struggles, but relationships are still at the heart of the group. “There is lots of collaboration and folks who meet outside of the group for mentoring, discussing potential endeavors, and taking part in one another’s organizations,” Johnmark said.

Among those collaborations is City Kitchen, a restaurant that will provide training and employment opportunities to individuals with barriers to employment. “We’ve been watching other models like this, which were used to help redevelop the urban core, but we needed the three pieces of culinary skills, soft skills, and real estate development to come together,” Johnmark said. Fortunately, those three pieces came together through LIFE. Joe’s Findlay Market will provide the hard skills, Johnmark’s CityLink Center will offer soft skills training, and Steve Smith of Model Group is acting as the developer. And with a successful pilot pop-up restaurant under its belt, City Kitchen will soon open its doors across from Findlay Market in Cincinnati’s Over-the-Rhine neighborhood.

In addition to the friendship’s creative outputs and common vision for civic flourishing, they’ve enjoyed the personal aspects as well. Over the years, these friends have participated in home renovation projects for one another, they play sports together, and they spend time with each others’ families. “And then there’s the Dive of the Month Club, where there’s rules and formal scoring based on the use of plasticware and beer signs on the wall,” Johnmark said.

The relational stock they’ve cultivated through vocation and recreation has helped to lower the barrier to entry for starting City Kitchen. As Johnmark explained, “In new relationships it takes a long time to figure out somebody’s core motive — do they have a scarcity or abundance mindset? What’s their tolerance for risk? Even with our financial stuff, it was very simple to hammer out — it just doesn’t take long when there’s trust.”

Aside from lowering the barrier to entry, could inventive friendships also increase the likelihood that a joint startup would succeed in the long run? While mixing friends and business carries its own risks, the strength developed through years of collaboration and recreation may enable a partnership to weather the hardship of a startup.

As a final note, Johnmark and Joe seem to have found a balance between rootedness and entrepreneurial vision. They enjoy the very ordinary aspects of their longstanding friendships and at the same time have initiated a suite of creative endeavors, which have all sought to better their city. Their companionship continues to produce opportunities for greater flourishing in their community and for those involved in their creative endeavors.

From Clapham to Cincinnati, there are friendships whose existence is consequential for the communities and institutions in which they are born. Bound together by trust and vision and enlivened by creative intent, these little knots of friends offer a glimpse of what it means to flourish as human beings: to share trials and joys together, to delight in the ordinary things of life, and to dream, risk and create.

Yet the friendships whose creative intent pushes beyond the humanistic and into an alignment with God’s purposes in the world are best conditioned to originate enduring, meaningful institutions. This redemptive intent in some ways mirrors James Davison Hunter’s notion of faithful presence:

Faithful presence in practice is the exercise of leadership in all spheres and all levels of life and activity. It represents a quality of commitment oriented to the fruitfulness, wholeness, and well-being of all. Faithful presence generates relationships and institutions that are fundamentally covenantal in character, the ends of which are the fostering of meaning, purpose, truth, beauty, belonging and fairness — not just for Christians, but for everyone.

The Praxis Fellows in Portland and Cincinnati showed us what this kind of entrepreneurship can look like in practice. It is an entrepreneurship that grows out of friendship enjoyed for its own sake; that embraces rootedness while imagining the potential for a new future; that is motivated by a creative intent to respond to a vision of the common good; and that derives its vitality from faith in Jesus Christ.

For those who might see inventive friendship as an extension of their entrepreneurial calling, consider some of these questions:

1. How can you create margin in your life and work that would allow you to invest time and attention into friendship?

2. Who in your current circle of friends do you share a common vision with, and/or what conversations could you have with them to develop that vision?

3. In what ways could you give as much weight to the ordinary aspects of friendship as the creative?

4. What resources could you activate to co-create some endeavor that’s aligned with a redemptive vision?

5. How could you activate those resources in a way that directs them toward enhancing relationships and results in a creative enterprise?

6. What expectations do you need to adjust in order to create the space for relationships to grow within and even outlast the creative endeavor?

Sources

Czaderna, Bianca. “Who Were the Inklings?” First Things, 5/28/2015 URL: https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2015/05/who-were-the-inklings

Duriez, Colin. The Oxford Inklings. Lion Books, 2015.

Gathro, Richard. “William Wilberforce and His Circle of Friends,” C.S. Lewis Institute Report. 2001 URL: http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/webfm_send/471

Hunter, James Davison. To Change the World: The Irony, Tragedy, and Possibility of Christianity in the Late Modern World. Oxford University Press, 2010.

Lewis, C.S. The Four Loves. Harvest Books, 1971.

Tomkins, Stephen. The Clapham Sect: How Wilberforce’s Circle Transformed Britain. Lion Hudson, 2010.

Zaleski, Philip and Carol Zaleski. The Fellowship: The Literary Lives of the Inklings, Farrar Straus and Giroux, 2015

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[Photo credit to The Praxis Journal]

— by Mike Sharrow

I was in a workshop with Richard Blackaby this past spring.  During a Q&A session a leader said, “What do you do when you get a vision from God, you execute it but everything goes wrong, the teams don’t follow you on that vision and it blows up due to all of the spiritual warfare?”  Richard asked a clarifying question about how this leader translated vision into strategy, strategy into plans and execution, how he communicated with clarity, etc.  When the leader shared what he did, Richard then replied, “Sir, please do not blame the Devil for your bad leadership. He didn’t have to do anything with such poor leadership but stand back and let you mess it up!  Just because God gives a vision is not an excuse for poor leadership, management or execution.  Be careful blaming spiritual warfare for what is really a failure to lead.”  BOOM.  Mic drop.

We’ve all seen it!  We’ve all done it to some degree.  Particularly when in a setting where we’re doing work we label “missional” or “from/for God” (curious what things are then NOT?). 

It’s one of the reasons I and so many others can get nervous when a giant fish is put forward as a marketing flag for a company – does that entrepreneur believe the fish calls them to a higher standard or a flimsy grace excuse of some kind?  

If you are a faith-driven entrepreneur, you’re likely embarked on a mission either because you felt called in some way to a vision or anchored in an identity in Christ you are seeking to do “all things as unto Christ.”  That is a powerful fuel!  In fact, it can be a stimulant with the hazard of any other narcotic-esque drug – sparking overdrive, excess, or negligence that creates peril for you and those you lead or serve. 

We all need to hear what Richard told that leader.  Yes, there is legitimate spiritual warfare.  There is also sin, flesh, laziness, carnal pleasures hijacking our priorities, ulterior motives, conflicted identity, idolatry and a host of undertow factors that can absolutely wreck an entrepreneur. 

I get to serve a team that then supports a larger network of uniquely called leaders who then directly serve over 2,200 marketplace leaders around the globe all on a faith driven journey.  We find it essential to make sure we challenge and raise the bar on truly building great BUSINESSES with excellence, goodness, outcomes, competitive results and brand differentiation if we want to accomplish any greater PURPOSE through these ventures. 

When I was a young professional working in a Fortune 50 company in Chicago, I began to wrestle with this “sacred/secular” divide and was asking “how do I live out who I am in Christ here?”  My first mentor was a guy named Tony Barrett.  In our first meeting where I asked him how do I be effective as a Christ-followers in the company, he gave me great counsel: “Mike, first be absolutely excellent.  Like crush everything you do.  Do such amazing work that you’re above reproach, earn the respect of those around you and to ensure your testimony cannot be muffled by performance.  Then, so genuinely love Jesus in each moment and have such affection for Him that the desire to glorify God just oozes out in everything you do…so it’s not just a punctuation mark here or there in a spurt of sudden God talk, but a consistent aspect of who you are as a leader.”  Honestly, that sums up a dozen books you could read on the topic pretty darn well!

So, in the spirit of wanting this to be a site that spurs marketplace saints on to “love and good deeds” (Heb 10:24), let me invite you to wrestle with some universal business scaling issues.  Here are a few free resources with tools and actionable content to help you move the needle in your business right away:

How do you interview and hire for fit to your team and mission? eBook

How do you price and position your product for maximum value and margin alignment? How do you think about profits Biblically?  eBook

The best way to grow sales is to keep happy customers, so how do you cultivate loyalty for exponential growth and “good profits” along the way? eBook

Early on entrepreneur is French for “I do everything,” but as you scale an organization what is the non-delegatable job description for you as a CEO?  eBook

How do you discern God’s will?  Easy topic, right?  It’s so easy to run off on a feeling, a sense, a proof-texted verse that fits your wanted vision…how do you vet out the leading of God?  Here’s a discernment tool we find practical and effective – 5 Point Discernment Tool

Try those out.  Seek God.  Live out of a robustly ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE.  Let’s not let our identity or vision be an excuse for bad leadership, but rather the fuel and motivator for great leadership.  One of my agendas in the work I do, frankly, is to redeem the brand dignity of “Christian business leadership” to be associated with the very highest standards in society (case study).   

Lead well.  It matters!

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[Special thanks to Clique Images on Unsplash for the cover photo]

— by Tom Phillips

As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Prov. 27:17) 

I have found this verse to be true and very relevant for me. Beth and I started our business, DCI, in 2001. Our intent, from the very beginning, was to have a business that sought the peace and prosperity of our city—Memphis, Tennessee. The first couple of years we were left to figure things out on our own. Thankfully, though, this was soon to change.

Sometime after we started DCI, I encountered an article in our local newspaper, The Commercial Appeal, talking about another business owner who was using his business to advance God’s Kingdom. As I read the article, I was intrigued that this man, Alan Barnhart, was doing the same thing with his business that we wanted to do with DCI. Thinking that his experience and viewpoint might be valuable, I resolved to call him. As we talked on the phone, and later as we talked in-person, I began to see and appreciate Alan’s passion for ministry and work that, in turn, fueled our growing friendship.

Alan and I were busy people, so we knew we would have to be intentional about cultivating our friendship. To this end, we began regularly having lunch together, and this led to us walking on weekends. On these walks, we would always talk—about life and events, yes, but most often about our faith, our calling, and our work (ministry). We would talk about why we felt we were called to be businessmen on our mission field. As we walked together, we became close friends with a growing degree of accountability. Often, I would discuss my ideas or plans with Alan—strategies or concepts that might improve my work or outreach. Every time I’d talk about my ideas, Alan wouldn’t reject them or correct me; instead, he would ask me questions, seeking to collaboratively expand my ideas, helping me to make them better by intertwining his unique viewpoint with my own. This iterative process refined and purified my initial ideas, transforming them into something far superior to their original shape. As one example of this, early in our relationship, Alan and I were having lunch and discussing what sorts of ministry our respective companies did. DCI was heavily involved in local ministries and had been for some time. Alan, however, challenged me, asking me whether I had considered supporting international ministries. This took me somewhat aback, as I had never considered this before. As we discussed further, however, I became increasingly convinced that God had ordained DCI and, specifically, me, for international ministry. This one conversation has borne much fruit. We now have the privilege of being engaged with many international ministries that are having great impact. The ROLI (return on the Lord’s investment) is often much higher in the majority world. 

As we have become involved in each other’s lives, we’ve also become advocates for each other’s work. In our walks, Alan and I often talk about our business problems and approaches, and we have learned quite a bit from each other. We’re involved in each other’s companies, to the extent that Alan is on the board of advisors for DCI, and I am on the board of advisors for Barnhart Crane and Rigging (BC&R). In the time we’ve known each other, DCI’s revenue has increased from around $9 million to approximately $425 million, over a 47-fold increase. BC&R has also grown steadily over that time period. Our mutual friendship and support has helped us navigate and capitalize on this economic growth.

Of course, for us, business is both our everyday reality and an ongoing commitment to what we see as our higher calling. One of the things I have heard from Alan since the beginning is “Profit with a purpose.” We are committed to providing innovation and excellence in our respective fields. We also try to consider all the stakeholders in our decision-making process. One of our mission fields is our businesses, where we can have a Kingdom impact on all the stakeholders. This includes our shareholders, vendors, clients, and employees. We believe it all belongs to God, and, as such, we are simply stewarding all the resources He has put under our care. We want to be the best we can be in business, bringing glory to God both in how we succeed and how we use our success.

Amid all of this, we’ve had the chance to grow together dramatically as friends. We have a shared purpose: ministering and providing aid to the majority world. The opportunities for shared experiences in this field are staggering; there are many needs out there in the wide world and near as many opportunities to help meet them, in Gospel love. We are always asking the question, “What has God called us to do and how can we have the greatest Kingdom impact?”

Alan and I had the opportunity to go to Africa together, with the goal of meeting with as many ministries and outreach programs as possible. During that particular trip, Alan said something that succinctly summed up our attitude at the time: “We can eat and sleep when we get back to Memphis.” On that trip we visited four countries and met with 32 different ministries in a span of eight days. Shared experience and shared motivation is the mother of friendship.

Alan and I have developed a lasting friendship, which has had a major impact on my life. It has helped me in business and increased my Kingdom impact. I can honestly say that my life would not be as rich without knowing Alan. We’ve spent the last 12 or so years building each other up, challenging each other, and getting to know each other; I am the better for it. We care for each other, even beyond our shared goals and passions. One of my proudest moments in our friendship happened when I had the privilege of helping Alan bag his first deer. It did not take long until Alan shot an eight-point, beginning and promptly ending his deer-hunting career. Most people are happy to shoot any deer, but Alan started with a big one. Because of our friendship, Alan’s triumph is my victory.

Proverbs 27:17 talks about this process of becoming biblical friends. It begins, of course, with two men walking together through life, but, over time, it becomes so much more! It is the simplest of processes, but it is also in some ways incredibly difficult. Friendship, especially biblical friendship, often demands more from you than you originally intended to give. Being close friends with another person takes commitment, accountability, trust, and a willingness to be vulnerable. Sometimes this takes sacrifice; Alan and I have walked together in rain, heat, and even once when the temperature was 22 degrees outside. This level of commitment doesn’t always come easy. More challenging than the commitment, though, is maintaining vulnerability and openness. Most of us do not like feeling vulnerable; I certainly don’t! Giving Alan permission to hold me accountable is one of the hardest parts of our friendship for me, though it’s also something I really could not do without. Sometimes he says things I don’t want or like to hear, but I need to hear them. It is important in life to find someone who can really challenge you, pushing you out of your comfort zone and making you examine your ideas and choices. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, to have a Christ-centered friendship, you have to trust the other person. We all know of sham friends who have mocked and belittled their friends or who have taken advantage of privileged information. That sort of friend is no friend at all, only a deceiver! Take care to avoid those kind of “friends,” but don’t be so cautious that you forget to trust your true friends: people who mentor you, coach you, invest in you, and challenge you. Such friends are without price, an incomparable treasure. I thank God that I was able to meet Alan Barnhart and that he and I have been able to walk together these past few years. Together, we have sacrificed, strived, overcome, and grown; we have talked and commiserated, shared together and worked together, challenged and uplifted each other. This is the core of my friendship with Alan, and this is iron sharpening iron!

— —

[Special thanks to Malte Wingen on Unsplash for the cover photo]

Byron Loflin, founder of the Center for Board Excellence, joins the team this week, helping us get a handle on the importance of good governance within our organizations. He shares with us his views on why governance is core to servant leadership and promotes healthy, humble accountability that provides a stable runway for your organization’s success. Even early stage firms can benefit greatly from a modestly sized board (3 plus the entrepreneur).  Thoughts on how unanimous boards may actually be a sign that the board isn’t providing the robust thinking needed, how they should provide credible challenge and constructive dissent are all topics the team works through to help provide a framework on selecting and maintaining a board that will contribute to the success of your business or organization. And yes, we even broach the subject of how this is too often the least favorite part of the entrepreneur’s job with all giving pointers on how to balance the tension between stewardship and control.

A great deal of light is shed on how to take advantage of the very Christian concept of community and fellowship to help provide wise stewardship to an endeavor with this week’s topic of governance. We love to hear about some of your best board and other type governance experiences in the comment section below. Your story helps us in the building of our own!

Useful Links:

Center for Board Excellence

We also have a very brief survey we’d love for you to take that will help us shape the direction and future of the FDE podcast. As always, we love taking your questions and hearing your comments. Feel free to submit your thoughts in general here.

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Byron Loflin, founder of the Center for Board Excellence, joins the team this week, helping us get a handle on the importance of good governance within our organizations. He shares with us his views on why governance is core to servant leadership and promotes healthy, humble accountability that provides a stable runway for your organization’s success. Even early stage firms can benefit greatly from a modestly sized board (3 plus the entrepreneur).  Thoughts on how unanimous boards may actually be a sign that the board isn’t providing the robust thinking needed, how they should provide credible challenge and constructive dissent are all topics the team works through to help provide a framework on selecting and maintaining a board that will contribute to the success of your business or organization. And yes, we even broach the subject of how this is too often the least favorite part of the entrepreneur’s job with all giving pointers on how to balance the tension between stewardship and control.

A great deal of light is shed on how to take advantage of the very Christian concept of community and fellowship to help provide wise stewardship to an endeavor with this week’s topic of governance. We love to hear about some of your best board and other type governance experiences in the comment section below. Your story helps us in the building of our own!

Useful Links:

Center for Board Excellence

We also have a very brief survey we’d love for you to take that will help us shape the direction and future of the FDE podcast. As always, we love taking your questions and hearing your comments. Feel free to submit your thoughts in general here.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

*Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Henry [00:01:59] He is a good friend. Byron is one of the guys I really like hang out with and since moved to California and get a chance to do it as much. But Byron is very much a modern renaissance man. He is a ski racer and a great international traveler. He’s taken me as his guest to the International Prayer Breakfast in the U.K. and I’ve been with him to the one in D.C. And he knows a lot of really, really interesting people, none more interesting than him. I do think of him with that whole DoSAC. His commercial has one of the most interesting men in the world. And yet he has a job in an industry that a lot of us don’t think is very interesting. A lot of entrepreneurs don’t like talking about governance. If you were to put down a list of one hundred different topics that we might talk about on the podcast, governance may not be at the top of list, but it probably should be. I’ll tell you that at band-width we struggled with the question of when do we expand our board? Do we have a board when we have one? What do we do about it? And so as I got a chance to talk more and more with Biron about the success of the Center for Board Excellence, which he leads, I said I’d love for you to join and I’d love for you to share with our audience what it looks like to have a good board and how you think about governance. So, Byron, thank you. Thank you very much for being with us.

Byron [00:03:17] Thank you. That was a little over the top. So I’ll come back to Earth a little bit. It was direction.

[00:03:25] I’m trying to be a humble servant out here in the world of promoting good governance. That’s Henry, as you and I have shared over the past many years. We love faith driven leadership. And along with that, we if we think back 10 years ago right now, many of us were concerned about what was happening in the economy to the degree that it was at times terrifying, frankly, that I was concerned about different parts of the world, that it could devolve into violence. But I want to emphasize one thing right out of the chute. This whole notion of a board of directors is actually more familiar than many would think. In the same sense that servant leadership is really rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ. A board of directors is in many ways, I believe, rooted in the Twelve Apostles. And the notion of people working together and being accountable to one another is the core structure of governance. And then along with that is the structure of culture, values, policies, rules that effectuate a smoothly operating business. And I think if you don’t do that, your road to success is longer and it’s got a lot more potholes in it. And at this time of year, if you’re driving on any roads in North America, there’s a lot of big potholes from all the crazy weather we’ve had over the last month or two.

Henry [00:04:51] So tell us more about this concept of accountability. A lot of times an entrepreneur is not looking for accountability because they don’t think of it as accountability, which is a kind of a glass half full look. They think of it more like somebody else having control over them. And I think that one of the things that entrepreneurs struggles with is this concept of ownership in storage ship and then also control. And I think in many cases appropriately, nobody knows the business as well as they do. They’re worried about something else coming in and messing up with their creative mojo.

Byron [00:05:25] Well, the strategy that was being developed among Jesus and the twelve disciples when we look back at them, was one that was rooted in accountability and accountability to that strategy and that mission. You know, when we look at what we build around strategy, it’s vision, mission values and goals often are the things that we develop underneath this umbrella of strategy. And in each one of those, I envision that accountability paralleling with humility. And what I mean by that is using the Jim Collins type of concept around, in order to rise to a Level 5 leader, one has to have strength of will and humility coupled together. And there’s a check and balance there.

Rusty [00:06:14] Hey, let me ask you the question from. The perspective of size of company, so I could ask the question all the time, young entrepreneurs in their startup phase, should I have a board? When should I have a board? How big should the board be? Venture capitalists a lot of times are outside money will say, I don’t want you having a big board because I don’t want you to be distracted because they are another constituency that you have to serve. What’s your best advice to a young entrepreneur who’s got their company and they’re trying to get it off the ground? When and how big?

Byron [00:06:46] Okay. A couple of points on that. Size and market penetration would have an impact on that. So a very small startup oriented business, whereas exactly to the point and I think many of the private equity people have a very good reason for not having distractions. Three people for a period of time. And this gets into more specific discussion with that entrepreneur looking at the size of the business and where that business might go. But three people should be plenty sufficient for that accountability, because what that means is there’s four of you. And if four of you are agreeing on something, meaning the entrepreneur and three others. That’s a very positive thing. And it’s going to take three people to go against the entrepreneur. And I don’t necessarily mean that it’s not always a full voting. But let’s assume it is for a moment.

[00:07:39] If three people are going against me as the entrepreneur, I want to know why I’ve got something wrong. And if it’s two on two, then the two of us need to figure out the other two and listen to their input.

Rusty [00:07:51] Now, remember, caught by his first name, Sloane was the General Motors. Yeah, yeah.

Byron [00:07:57] Yeah, he was. I might keep the score.

Rusty [00:07:59] Right. And he used to make the comment that if his board agreed on everything, he would stop the meeting and say, let’s talk about it later, because it means he wasn’t pushing. He was pushing hard enough. You know, trying to get unanimous agreement sometimes means that we’re taking the easy way out, which I think is a pretty hard and courageous perspective for someone to take, because a lot of times as an entrepreneur or a founder or the CEO, you know, you feel very vulnerable with your board and kind of always trying to live up to their expectations. So to not have them 100 percent aligned all the time can be pretty frightening. But I love the way he always pushed into that because, you know, if you’re getting diverse points of view and you’ve got the best thinking, it doesn’t always mean people are going to end up in the same place.

Byron [00:08:47] Agreed. And the other important benefit that a board should supply to an entrepreneur and I said this directly to you, entrepreneurs out there is that they should help challenge you with credible challenge. Constructive dissent and in the end, be people that are building your character as a growing entrepreneur. If any of those three are happening, then the board needs to be changed.

Henry [00:09:15] Byron, and listen to this. And as an investor now and also as a shareholder and co-owner of Bandwidth, I absolutely see the value of accountability. And when a board brings in for optics and for real, forget about the optics for saying interns are really getting the right people around the table, we can help sharpen iron. I do think back, though, through the first 10 years of bandwidth and the entrepreneurial mindset where David and I were the only board members of bandwith for the first dozen years and for us things were in reference to investing and bringing people on board had to do with valuation and control.

[00:09:51] And control was so important. We just didn’t want to have anybody messing with our creative mojo, if you will, and didn’t want somebody who knew only 10 percent as many of the inputs as we knew to really make decisions in the business, sort to hold us accountable. We just didn’t like that dynamic. And I think that’s likely something that a lot of our entrepreneurs struggle with. And yet, you know, that eventually you get to this place where the company gets big enough, where you have to have that. But that transition for us was really it was hard for us to have the right framework about which to think about it. How would you address that generally? Conceptually. And then also, are there different mechanisms that can be put in place that gradually increase or gradually introduce the concept of outside governance and yet do so in a way where the entrepreneur doesn’t feel like they’re really giving up control too early?

Byron [00:10:46] Board member selection has been weak at best over the past 50 years, and I hope I don’t get myself into any trouble here. But I went to a well-known, highly decorated academic in the field of corporate governance back in 2010. And I said to him, Where do you think board’s rate on a scholastic level? A through F in terms of performance or effectiveness? And he said today. D-plus, C-minus. And I kind of coston and laughed and said, wait at any of the top universities in the world. I don’t think you can stay in school with anything less than a C.

[00:11:32] And he smiled and kind of winked at a meaning that we really in 2010, looking back at the crisis, didn’t fully understand what a board member is supposed to really be bringing to the table. So directly to your point, Henry. I think these need to be trusted advisers that understand the vision, mission, values and goals of the business and that they are there to counsel and support and only provide a type of critiquing accountability when they’re concerned that the entrepreneur is losing direction with their strategy. As long as they’re executing on the strategy, I don’t think somebody should be imposing their will on an entrepreneur.

William [00:12:18] Now, that’s really interesting. And I maybe want to take it back to first principles. I know we’ve talked here yet about, in your opinion, you’ve seen this. Do you run a company for this? What is a good board meeting look like? What’s shared? What’s not shared? What pressures are supposed to be? What is the structure look like? Do you teach that at all? You I hear these three or four things you want to make sure and just kind of take people into the boardroom a little bit of a well running board.

Byron [00:12:44] OK, that’s a great question. And it’s one we’ve had some fun with. We have a piece that we did. It’s called the Effective and Ineffective Board Member. And we we have two columns and anybody listening, if they send me an email, I can send this to them. It’s a great little piece, but I’ll start it a fundamental and that is I feel like in their own way. And from their own particular perspective, each board member and each entrepreneur should be thinking in terms of the type of salt and light they’re adding. You know, if something’s too salty, in other words, somebody wants to hear their voice too much or they want to throw out their opinion too much in the boardroom.

[00:13:31] That’s a problem. And if they’re not bringing enough light in and we can use that concept of lights and lightness, that when they come in the room, the room doesn’t become heavy.

[00:13:43] Nor does it become dark because somebodys countenance brings in a negative kind of vibe. So one born environment should be collaboratives. It shouldn’t be overly organized. Sometimes people get way obsessed with the Roberts rules and figure out if it’s good to have flow and it’s good to make sure that all voices are heard. And that’s where the entrepreneur, if he’s really acting as the chair and running on a younger company, running the board meeting saying, you know, Susan, Tom, Becky, I want to make sure that all three of you feel like your opinion matters to me. I don’t want us to spend all day on it because we want to be fluid and we want to move quickly through our agenda. But at any time, let’s stop.

[00:14:31] And I want to hear what’s your opinion has to do with complementing the strategy, which includes if the company’s got employees and let’s say it’s got 20, 50 employees that they’re fostering and developing culture and those board members are able to test the culture a little bit and bring and provide a safe outside opinion on how the culture is being developed. And most importantly, I think there should be a sounding board. Those early board members or it could be an advisory board, those early board members should be a good sounding board. And the entrepreneur should be able to freely say. What do you think about this sales execution strategy? And those people have an educated opinion to provide back to the entrepreneur. And that’s the only part. Henry, that I I failed at doing this years ago. I’ve succeeded at it more today because I’ve focused the rest of my business career on this. But I do think that healthy advisors, wise counsel. Is something that we shouldn’t overlook, particularly when we’re trying to build a business that’s going to compliment whatever market place we go into.

Rusty [00:15:42] I’d like to reinforce that point to our listeners, what you just said. I mean, this idea that a board and governance can give you this safe space, I think you’ve talked before in different talks and things about how it kind of unleashes creativity and it gives you spaces to sort of dream and reach. I think that so many entrepreneurs miss that, like they get lost in the idea of the word governance being an authoritarian word instead of this place of support. But I will also tell you in my own career and boards that I’ve been on and as a CEO and having a board that, you know, those board meetings, they up your game. And as the CEO, when you’re trying to up the game of everyone around you, it’s one thing to say, hey, Henry, William, you know, you guys, you know, you should sharpen the pencil and be a little sharper, get the presentation together, and they will. But it’s another thing to do it for the board. Right? It just ups the game. And I think it’s really valuable.

Byron [00:16:47] Well, that emphasizes your board member selection. I would be very careful to select someone because they have a sick wallet and are willing to invest in you. That could be the most expensive money that you attract. Well said. They want to impose their will on you. So going specifically to your point, Henry, a board that is imposing its will on an entrepreneur is potentially horrible disaster for that entrepreneur. But somebody who comes in and says, I want to help this business thrive. That’s what a real board member must say to himself when he enters the boardroom or herself.

Henry [00:17:26] So on that point, I really want encourage our listeners to interview their board member. And I’ve said it before on a call. But there’s something really valuable whenever you’re looking to bring on board a senior leader to have them to dinner with their spouse just to see the way that they interact with the people they really care about and the people that they really love. I think is remarkably valuable. Doing the same type of interview process with a board member I think has a lot of value maybe to include their spouses, a little unconventional, but I think that that might be great. But getting on the phone with them and saying, listen, tell me about the boards you’ve been on before and tell me about some of the boards where you thought they worked really well. And tell me about some of the board’s situations. Do you thought didn’t work out really well and to get references for them on there as they sat on boards from their good and their bad that you asked for after you ask that question can be really valuable. We’ve been on many boards through our work and we’ve seen some folks that have done an incredible job of loving on entrepreneurs and helping them to get better, because that’s the type of opportunity that board member has. They’ve got the entrepreneurs here and we’ve seen the exact opposite. And I think a lot of those poor selections could have been headed off at the pass.

Rusty [00:18:39] Henry, can you go a little deeper into that, though? Because I want to make sure that everyone’s listening, understands that. I think you’re not only just talking about independent board members, but you’re also talking about the capital that comes into the business. Right. That someone should say, if you’re going to fund Sovereign’s is going to fund the. As an entrepreneur, before you take that money, you should have that interview. You should check those references. What kind of board member, what kind of investor will they be? Sincerely pray and earnestly pray over that, because there’s one person at the table, even though the capital feels like all it’s the only capital I can get the wrong person. The table can really be an issue. Is spiral stalling us?

Henry [00:19:20] Yes, absolutely. And this is for presumably when you bring on board an independent director, you have a greater ability to influence who they are and the type of background that they bring. But remarkably important, whether it’s independent or in this case, there’s somebody that comes in with the money. I cannot tell you how many poor actors I’ve seen among board members. They could have been sniffed out early on for some simple questions. And also to include the fact is, how do you feel about board seats? Is that part of the job you really like or not? Some number of people who are investors on boards tend to feel like it’s a bother to them, and others seem to think it’s like a vocational opportunity and almost a ministry stacking the deck in favor of the latter is really important for just your joy.

William [00:20:05] That’s a great segway. It isn’t that I was wondering Biron, could you let us in? So there’s probably some number of people listening who are saying, Wow, this sounds great. I wish I’d heard this podcast about two years ago before I gave up all my board seats and I’m stuck in a tough spot. You know, I know that this is not a well-functioning board right now. I know that I’m scared to go into my meetings. I don’t enjoy them and they’re not pushing the company forward or whatever it may be. What would your advice be to someone that is stuck? There, how can they move forward? How can they recover, how can they shift things around? What have you seen work from with unfuck ironing board to making one function?

Byron [00:20:41] Well, that person will need an ally or a group of allies on the board that if there is dysfunction, that that is identified usually with discussion. And I would emphasize to be careful to allow this to become some sort of factional war between two sides or three elements of the board, but that you would have at least one person you could trust and start formulating. How can we take the board from troubling state to an improved or functioning state? And that’s not going to be done easily, because remember, I mean, as we all know, you’re the entrepreneur. They’re listening and saying, wait a second, I’m out doing my job every day. And that’s good stuff. If it becomes a distraction, that’s the tragedy that Henry has talked to me about in terms of this kind of thing and talking about this podcast. What we want to help you do is avoid those tragedies. I think if somebody is in that, I would face it head on now. But do it in a way that is not destructively confronted, that it is diplomatic. And if someone needs to leave the board to do it in a well-governed process, that is the best for the organization of the enterprise at large. And I think that diplomacy would be one of the words that would shine brightly in my hopefully in the back of my head if I’m confronting that kind of situation.

Rusty [00:22:12] How do you feel about board evaluations?

Byron [00:22:17] Is this. Did you put the ball off on a tee for me so I could hit it?

[00:22:22] And full disclosure, my business is heavily focused on board assessments and particularly now we’re getting more into and our firm works with some smaller boards. We do it on meeting their specific needs. But as a business, we work with companies. The average size is big. It’s like 20 some billion dollars. And we work with companies from around to roughly around 500 billion market cap, mostly public. But we actually want to do more work in the private area because I think then the reasoning to this podcast, we want to help boards with people that are driven for holistic reasons to develop a business like we’re discussing today to advance their companies and be able to grow like their public. And if they can avoid being public, that would be a great thing because that’s a tough business. But we we feel like broad assessments are invaluable. They bring a lot of value to the table. The way you do it is very important at each to have a quantitative and qualitative analysis element to it where you’re measuring different elements of your board and governance at large. Now, as we get into the broad assessment, too, it’s really measuring the whole governance. And that means the tone from the top of the leadership. And there should be some sprinkling or all as senior management involved. And we often work where will do this assessment process with, say, the entire board. And that’s what, 10 people and seven senior managers. We’ve received 17 pieces of response data and that provides a great snapshot for governance. Now, if it’s small, if it’s for you can get the same significance of snapshots of your governance, be able to measure your growth, because the governance of that organization is really what’s going to keep it sustainable for a longer period of time. I mean, Henry, you and David created a governance system, and that’s why bandwith exists today. And that’s why the businesses that we know and adore today, they survive. It’s because there’s some governance. Whether or not we think it’s terrific or not is providing structure like a foundation for the four corners of a building. That’s your governance and the things coming out of ground. Is your governance and then the roof as part of your governance. But what happens inside that building? Is more the strategy. And so I think that it’s important to get your governance right earlier than later. You will struggle you will certainly struggle more if you’re struggling with governance and your third, fourth, fifth year of starting a business. And so the evaluation is meant to be a check. Has the governance come along and we’re doing a good job here.

William [00:25:15] That’s great. And so we’re coming towards the end of our time here. And one of the questions we’d love to ask, just to always point the arrow back to the word of God, which I know we all believe is a foundation of all that we do. Is there Bible verse in your world, in your life right now, maybe over the past weeks, never in the past months that has been coming to life to you in a new way, maybe like to share with our entrepreneurs and to share what gods may be doing through your life, through the word of God,.

Byron [00:25:44] But one that is foundational, a quote that’s foundational for me and my businesses is that quote that says Whoever can be trusted with very little can be trusted with much.

[00:25:56] And I feel like that’s fundamental, not only to being an entrepreneur that makes a difference in the world, but in my specific business, being an entrepreneurial and having created a business that promotes great governance. I especially have to think in terms of being faithful to the business world, whether or not any of those in our audience are ever a customer. What I want to do is see that they received more of this kind of thing tools. And like I say, if someone sends me an email, be happy to send them. We do lots of research and give away a lot of white papers and things to help governance along the way, particularly for small companies that we don’t. There’s no charge for any of this kind of thing. So that notion of really being faithful in small things. And then another. This is a quote I love and it’s a little less from a very spiritual person where he died in his life. I’m not sure. But this is a great quote. And I think it’s certainly got some biblical origins. And that is there’s a crack in everything. That’s how the light gets in. And that’s from a poet singer named Leonard Cohen. But I think that’s why we need governance is because there’s gonna be cracks and things that you do. And the light comes in. And to have some faithful comrades around you in this adventure called entrepreneurship will help you realize what that light is highlighting in your business.

Henry [00:27:28] Byron, thank you very much for being with us on the podcast. It’s been a great treat for me and I know for William and Rusty, too, and I presume also for listeners. Can you just finish out by just some parting thoughts for us entrepreneurs? They’re thinking about governance.

Byron [00:27:44] Sure. Thank each of you and I would recommend, as you look at your adventure and entrepreneurship and what’s difference. Are you making in your life and the lives of all of your stakeholders? And as you do it, do it as unto the Lord and do it in the sense that you’re making a difference in our civilization, what we need. I mean, core to what we’re talking about here are people who are faithful to the task of caring for their neighbor. And I believe that if we encourage more entrepreneurship, we expand the economy and we can start to not just dream about, but possibly eradicate poverty in our world or significant elements of poverty. And we can spend another podcast on poverty and all the forms of poverty. But I applaud anyone who’s listening. This fight is starting or has a business. Do it with all your heart and get a few around you that will help you look down the road and avoid some of those potholes that could injure the vehicle that you’re driving. Call to entrepreneurship.

Henry [00:28:55] Brother, thank you very much. We’re gonna do a wrap with William in just a year, but I’m grateful for you. Thank you very much for sharing.

Rusty [00:29:02] Thank you.

Byron [00:29:02] That was for the. Thank you.

Henry [00:29:04] It was. It was. Thank you, brother. Said guys, that was you know, governance is a tough sell. And yet it’s so important. I think that one of the things is important is the alri behind it. It’s the messaging that goes out if if we’re all honest with ourselves as entrepreneurs. Governance and bringing people on our board is the last thing we want to do. We think of it as a necessary evil. And yet it can oftentimes be one of the smartest things we’ll ever do. By inviting people in that’s different than advisor and advisor is kind of a drive by. They don’t have much invested and have less skin in the game. They probably tell you what you want to hear. And yet, if an entrepreneur gets out there and get serious about governance, you get incredible. Rely on it. Oh, yeah.

Rusty [00:29:48] I mean, if you think is you as an investor, right? You’re putting your money, your limited partners, money at risk. Don’t you want to see that they are surrounded by accountability and they’ve got people who are going to make them better and they’ve got good governance, right? I mean, it makes so intuitive sense, but it’s so hard to get to it. I remember when we started Glassdoor, we had people saying, why do you have a board that size? Well, Robert Hohman and Rich Barton said, if we start the company with an extremely strong board, we will be noticed by investors as being ahead of the game. Yeah, and I remember a conversation where there was an investor who said, you know, usually there’s three things I bring to the business. One is capital. The other two is I can help you build a strong management team to boy, your management teams are really strong where I can help you build a board. But boy, your boards are really strong. This is like a dream for me that I can just bring my capital to you. I don’t have to worry about these other two things. And we should think about it in those terms as an entrepreneur.

William [00:30:57] And Byron had a great quote, I think was one of his write-ups that reminds me of we’ve talked with another guest, Alan Barnhart, about how constraints can actually be freeing. And he talked about it in the sense of his income cap. But I think the Bible is sort of an exercise in that that, you know, people I think maybe early in our walks with God, we think about all the laws God’s imposing on us. We can’t do this. We can’t do that. And I don’t know about you guys, but for me, at some point I realized, oh, those are the creator made me and actually his blueprint for how to live my life. These rules are in place so that I can actually thrive. And I feel that Byron’s quote, what he said as government is not the enemy, it’s your friend. Governance is the structure that should free and unleash creativity. It gives you a safer space to dream and to reach. And I think that’s such a great quote that reminds me of just thinking through how structure can promote creativity and flourishing.

Henry [00:31:53] I do, too. And it’s something to reflect on. Over the course of the next week until we join you again. But also, I have a feeling this is a podcast is going to unleash a lot of questions. Which brings us back to really wanting to encourage you to weigh in with your questions. What are the topics you want to explore? What about this was clear as mud. What about this? Did you disagree with what are some guests who have phenomenal stories and really great stories that we should all listen to? So let us know those things. Thank you for having joined us. It’s a great encouragement for us all is so fun to see the listenership increase. I think you all must be getting out there and telling people that, you know overseas about the podcast because we’re starting to get a really great following. And maybe some places you’re doing missions, trips. El Salvador seems to really like what we’re doing and we don’t speak Spanish very well. And Ghana and some other places. So that’s a great encouragement to us. Maybe some of those listeners can call in and talk about what it’s like to be a faith turned entrepreneur in some of those areas as well. As always, thank you for your time. God bless you.

by Henry Kaestner

We’re going to continue with this concept of highlighting motivating videos to get our work week started well.  It gets me going … I hope it does the same for you.

This is the Gary Archer story.  He owns and operates Let’s Play Sports that makes indoor soccer facilities across the country.  He’s a C12 member and this is a great mini (4 minute case study) on the impact of working with a workplace ministry group that can help to set you up with a group of fellow business owners to encourage and challenge you in your walk with the Lord and how it integrates in to your business. 

Here’s my favorite quote:

“I had been part of creating a culture in this organization that really rejected God, because I was atheist and I rejected God.  I had to wrestle with how do I bring in Christian principles and Christian values in to a culture that was anti-God that I actually helped create”