Episode 56 - The Entrepreneurial Journey of the Museum of the Bible to the US Capital: Steve Green, President of Hobby Lobby
In this episode we’re on the road in Oklahoma City, connecting with Steve Green, President of Hobby Lobby, the world’s largest privately owned arts and crafts retailer, with more than 700 stores and employing more than 30,000 people. He also is chairman of the Board of Museum of the Bible and is the visionary leader in establishing one of the world's largest private collections of rare biblical artifacts. Their 430,000-square-foot Museum of the Bible was opened in 2017 just three blocks from the Capitol in Washington, D.C.
Henry, William and Rusty had the chance to hear about the incredible entrepreneurial journey of the Museum of the Bible and how it became a movement across the country. Steve Green shared about his ten year journey that started when he bought an early manuscript of the English translation of Psalms and led to what is now the Museum of the Bible.
What’s exceptional is his insight into the opportunity to create this kind of world-class museum. Steve saw a way he could bring God’s Word to people who may have never encountered it before. The entire Green family has been behind the movement to make the Bible more accessible, so this sort of project made perfect sense for them. Then, they combined passion with experience and reached out for the expertise of top-notch designers, architects, and artists to create something spectacular. His vision and implementation of an incredible achievement are worth learning from!
In this podcast, we learn about how the Museum of the Bible leads people through the history, impact, and narrative of Scripture. Whether you grew up on the Bible, or whether you’ve never heard a single story, the Museum of the Bible provides an accessible and enjoyable way to learn more about this book. And ultimately, as Steve points out, when God’s hands are involved in the exploration of God’s Word, God’s glory is everywhere.
As faith driven entrepreneurs, God has given us the gift, desire, and energy to solve problems and realize opportunities. This doesn't stop with the businesses that we run, but we have opportunities to extend those gifts in other spheres as well. What are the opportunities you see in your community or ministry more broadly?
Useful Links:
An Inside Look at the Museum of the Bible
Hobby Lobby
We also have a very brief survey we’d love for you to take that will help us shape the direction and future of the FDE podcast. As always, we love taking your questions and hearing your comments. Feel free to submit your thoughts in general here.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
*Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.
Henry [00:02:11] Steve is a big treat for me personally and for us collectively to have you on the program. Many people know of the family business that you have been in leadership of for a long time now. Hobby Lobby and the extent and the scale of that business. But we're going to talk to you about and want to hear from you about on this program is not just that we'd love for you to weave in part of that story, but we're particularly interested in an entrepreneurial initiative that you launched out of what God has blessed you with with Hobby Lobby. And it's the Museum of the Bible. You and your family, together with some others, went ahead and decided to do something world class to celebrate the word of God. And I know there's a story behind that and we'd love to hear it. And it really started for Tanya. Thank you for agreeing to be on new bed.
Steve [00:02:56] I appreciate you have me on. Love sharing about the the Bible. It's been a exciting journey that our family's been on. My wife specifically over the last 10 years, I guess coming up 10 years now, one that we wouldn't have imagined being on. But it has been very exciting to tell us about it.
Henry [00:03:13] Tell us, how did it start? When and where were you when you said, you know what? There's an opportunity for there to be a museum for other people to see this type of collection. How did you get interested in manuscripts? Take us from the start, please.
Steve [00:03:27] OK. We will. It really started with a group that was interested in putting a Bible museum in Dallas and they were asking if we would help them. And I just said, well, if the right opportunity came up, we would consider it because the idea of a Bible museum was not new to the family. My brother, who started the Mardell Christian bookstore, you know, over the years from time to time, would mention the idea of putting in a Bible museum. So, you know, having you know, we looked around there for Dallas for a while or they did nothing ever developed until they mentioned an artifact that we could acquire at a really good deal. And they said, well, we might be willing to buy that for your museum concept. And we never really acquired that item because as I understand, the family didn't agree to sell it, but it opened the door. They started asking around and so we started acquiring some items. And you know, that auction here or there. And, you know, I had no idea that we would be able to collect as much as we did as rapidly as we did. But our first artifact was bought in 2009 and the collection grew and the economy was Eric was that first was our first artifact was the thing they get you start first. Yeah. The first item would have been Richard Roll, which is a translation of the book of soms into English about forty year before wickliffe. So it was a neat item that's on display in the museum today and was being sold at Sotheby's or Christie's one. And they kind of launched this. And at the time the economy was struggling. And so there were other opportunities that presented themselves. And we just continue to buy. And as the collection grew. That's when the family felt a sense of responsibility that maybe we needed to make sure that this dream became a reality. We had the resources to get it launched. We had the collection that was growing. And the guys that we were interested in putting in the web museum in Dallas had neither. So that kind of became our project. And that's what launched us on this journey.
Henry [00:05:19] That's great. So many people are turning in, may know more about actually the museum in the Bilo because it's been so successful than they even know about the company that launched it all. Before we talk more about the Museum of the Bible and the growth and how you've done it with excellence. Give us a perspective and tell us about the business started often. I think the very early 70s. What is the business that launched all this?
Steve [00:05:42] Well, my father started in retail when he was in high school and then in 1970 started manufacturing many frames because there was a design trend at the time. Two years later, he rented a 600 square foot space, and in the back 300 square foot is where the manufacturing operation was. And then the front 300 square foot, he opened a retail store and he called it Hobby Lobby. It was three years after that in 1975 when he actually left his full time work and committed to this new venture. It was a bit of a risk and, you know, basically committed to growing it. And there have been ups and downs. There's times when he didn't think we would survive, but just continue to grow and expand the company, where last year we did right at $5 billion in sales with 850 stores and we're continuing to grow.
Henry [00:06:34] So you've been around for all that, because 1975 you would have been seeing the family business grow. Right. Were you in your early teens, something like that?
Steve [00:06:43] Yeah, I was in middle school at the time and there was in 81 when I graduated high school and knew what I wanted to do.
[00:06:50] So I started working full time in the business. And I think we had eight stores at the time when when I worked full time. And as I said, my tail over the year has changed. But the graduate high school. So I worked for dad and still just work for dad. He's still active in the business as CEO. And so it's been, you know, lots of lessons learned, lots of ups and downs. But overall, God has blessed us and has allowed us to be able to do things like Museum of the Bible because of the success of Hobby Lobby.
Henry [00:07:20] So five billion has incredible scale. And I've been in your operations in Oklahoma City and seen how big those warehouses are. You can't see one end to the other. And it's super for along the way you have learned things about our operating and out executing others does not like you came up with a patent and for an interment window washer or something like that. And we're able to sit back and just, you know, make their revenues in royalties before we get our new museum, a Bible. What are some things that you've learned with time about being a faith driven artist nor running a business that our audience, which are faith driven art for us, might learn from them?
Steve [00:07:58] I think that's just a lesson in retail in general. As dad said that he always had been told, it's not as much education as an application and there's matter of just hard work. Roll up your sleeves, getting in there and get the job done. It's execution doing the job well. And part of that is building a good organization. If you're a one man show, it's up to you. But as you start growing, you have to build an organization and we're only as good as our employees and we seek to have. The best employees that's out there and we believe we do, and they're who makes us the success that we are by the excellence that they do. So again, a lot of it is just good old fashioned hard work.
Rusty [00:08:40] Hey, Steve, this is Rusty. Thanks for being on the podcast with us. My question is to you. You know, you said Dallas was a place that you were thinking about, but you ended up in Washington, D.C. and I don't know, but I don't think just anybody can come in and go, hey, just off of the mall, we're going to put a large building that's going to be another museum that's going to come into that diaspora of Washington, D.C. That had to be hard. And it probably didn't come without a lot of time and thinking. Can you take us through how do you get the D.C. and how do you make that work?
Steve [00:09:14] Yeah, yeah. There was a journey from Dallas to D.C., if you will. And as I mentioned, we were looking at Dallas, really, but we took on the project as a family. I remember thinking, well, what if God doesn't want in Dallas? I just wanted to open the door. I have no problem with being in Dallas. It's close and we'd love to be there. The mayor of Oklahoma City called and said, how about building it right here? And I said, well, we'd love to for selfish reasons, but I think it needs to be where it will be of most impact. And so I looked at the top 10 metros in the U.S. and the other two that stood out to me was New York City and Washington, D.C. So we had engaged someone to look in all three cities to see if a site might be available for a museum. And that's the time we did a survey. The primary question we were wondering is if we build it, will they come, as are an interest in the Bible museum and the survey results? The Jolynn that did the survey was kind of blown away, said the response was overwhelmingly positive. It was like 80 percent positive for the idea of a Bible museum. So you have a winning concept. But we also were asking if it was in Dallas or New York or to see if they would attend. And it showed that D.C. is where it would be best attended. New York City and Dallas was third. So it just made sense. Here's the heart of museums in our country. And if we want to have the best opportunity to be successful, that's where we ought to be. So that's where we elected to. Let's focus on D.C. If God wants it somewhere else, you know, he can make it clear and we'll go wherever. But we focused on D.C. Looked is about a couple of years later when this particular building came up on the market, which just happens to be two blocks from the Air and Space Museum, one of most attended museums in the country, and a metro stop in the very block where the entrance of the museum would be. And, you know, as you look back on there, you just have to say, you know, you just see God's hand in all of this. So just a great location, a building that was available to be renovated to the museum. And that's just one example of many that we've have seen on this journey of how God has gone before us, because it is a great location there in.
Rusty [00:11:19] Oh, it is. It is amazing. Thank you.
William [00:11:22] And Steve, as William, I'm interested. Sometimes the obvious questions end up with some fun answers. But at some level, how did your family get so interested in the Bible? You know, this is something that matters to us more than other things, and we want to build a museum around it. It matters so much. Just just where did that desire come from? And can you just walk us through that moment?
Steve [00:11:45] Well, I think it goes back generations. I think that, you know, we can at least go back to my grandparents, even on both my mother and my father's side. You know, both my parents were raised in Christian homes and, you know, really went to church. And we're taught to have the love for the Bible. And so we grew up. Me and my brother and my sister, Grubb, regularly going to church and knowing the impact of this book.
[00:12:08] You know, our family has been blessed by this book as we strive as best we can to operate our families according to the principles that God's word has given us. And if you look in our segmental purpose in our business, the first statement is that we operate, you know, at least we try to operate a business according to biblical principles. We've never done that perfectly, but that's what we strive to do. And we have also been blessed by being in a nation that was built on biblical principles, the concept that all men are created equal. That was a difficult concept. And our nations are perfect. Our business or family, none of us is perfect. I have been blessed in all three of those by the guidelines, instructions that are given in the Bible. And so there has been a part of our family that has been passed down for generations. And it's one that we are interested in pointing people to this book and wanting them to consider it. It's a violation of this book to force it on anybody that's not a part of the principles, but to share it and let people know about it. That's all we want to do. So the purpose of the Bible Museum is to invite all people to engage with this book. We just want you to come and get to know this book, learn about it, and hopefully you will love it, embrace it and realize that it is what it claims to be. I believe it is. So, again, I am blessed. Always buy this book. Our family has been and why we have a passion for it.
William [00:13:32] That's amazing. It's amazing. So interesting to hear how it's changed lives and how it's been formative for families to Segway live as you think about the museum and it's open. Just if you could give us a little overview of maybe a few statistics where people are coming from, who's visited, maybe some stories about guests and people that have come. Just maybe take us into that a little bit, walk us through the front door, you know, for people to have and then walk us through there and let us know what happens there and who's been.
Steve [00:14:00] Yeah, well, the museum itself is a 430000 square foot museum and has two huge bronze gates that are on either side of the front door as you walk in, which represent Genesis, chapter one from the Gutenberg Bible.
[00:14:14] And as you come in, there's really three primary ways that we look at the Bible. There's three primary flaws. There's a lot of other supporting functions. But the Bible's history, its impact and its narrative, the history for us to look at the evidence for this book. The archaeological evidence, the manuscript going into the print age. And we also are looking forward showing the effort to translate the Bible into every language of the world. And the Bible say these are collaborating to do that. And their goal was to do that by the year 2033, which is an incredible thought, something that could happen in most of our lifetimes. Some things never happen in history. The world could happen. A book in every language of the world. And so we look at that on this report as well. The narratives for the person that really doesn't know the Bible story at all. Never heard the stories, may have heard the Bible, but doesn't know the story. And we want them to have a basic understanding of cares what the Bible story is. And then the impact. This book speaks into every area of life and it's impacted practically every area of life. And we just want to show people how often science, the government, education, literature, music, all these areas. The Bible has had an impact. And so we just want to show the world that whether they realize it or not, this book has impacted their lives. And so as this has come in, there were common comments. We didn't have enough time. You know, there's that nine, eight hour days worth of material as they were read every placard and watch every video. And it's not just your boring museum material. We've tried to tell an incredible story in an incredible way. So we've engaged in the leading design firms in the country to help us tell that story, because I think we've got the best material of any museum in d._c. This is a book that's changed our world and we need to tell it in an engaging way. And one example of that is on our impact, for there is actually a Disneyesque ride where that you were actually flying through DC.
[00:16:10] And what we do is we show you our scriptures engraved on 13 different places around the city, on monuments and in buildings, so that a person leaving there realizes this book is all over the city, whether they realize it or not. And so we've really tried to make the Bible fun, engaging and make it where that our visitor will be excited about getting to know it. And there's all kinds of diversity within our visitors. I was looking at our group list of groups that were coming in just last Saturday, from Catholic to Lutheran to many. And I just had people from all stripes coming in that we're just hoping to inspire them to get to know this book better.
Henry [00:16:50] So you talk about these leading design firms and it's 430000 thousand square feet and there's a Disney type of ride. The impression that I had when I was there was that this is something that world class, it is every bit as good, if not better than the other museums that are in Washington. And yet it could have been done probably and been really, really neat for a quarter of the budget. How long awaited you all decide? Sit down and say, you know what, this is not going to be something we need cut corners on. We're gonna go ahead and we're gonna make a very sizable investment, invite others to come alongside us because it needs to be world class. How do you process that?
Steve [00:17:28] Yeah. You know, there was a journey, I think, until we actually found a building, we didn't know how big we were going to be. And but we had a big vision. The dream was big because we felt like a book deserved bad. And I remember doing this survey alluded to where the gentleman who was blown away by the 80 percent positive response, he made the comment, you you have a winning concept. And, you know, later I was thinking restaurants are a winning concept, but they go out of business all day long. So it's not just that you have a winning concept. You also have to do it well. And we wanted to do it well. I believe God gods were deserves our best. And so, you know, as we found the building, we knew that we needed in order to tell the story, we needed to find those that do that well. So we engaged several different design firms that had built presidential libraries that had worked with Disney. And so we were trying to find the best of the best to help. Tell this story, in some cases they didn't know the Bible real well, they have to learn it themselves, but they brought the expertise and the skills to help us tell that story well. I also remember as we were looking for a building, they purchased beautiful buildings in D.C. and I was thinking, you know, God's word deserves the best. I'm looking for some of the best looking buildings. And there's one that came up for sale that was really gorgeous, but it just wasn't structured well to be rehabbed into a Bible museum. So we kept looking and what showed up was an old refrigerated warehouse and everything in my garden. Your work deserves better now, but that's sort of best of building around. Was originally built as a refrigerated warehouse. And I was again thinking later that guy's response to my comment about the building up being one of the best looking buildings in town was, you know, I sent my son to a manger.
[00:19:18] It's not what's on the outside account. It's what's on the inside. And so I just said, you know, that sounds like the way you did God. So we took that old refrigerator warehouse and did the best we could with it. And I think it turned out very well. We had a great construction vendor and our architects and the whole team did a great job in making this building first class, anything.
Rusty [00:19:38] Now that it's been open and gotten all these rave reviews, have anything you wish you would have done differently?
Steve [00:19:45] You know, I think that there is always things that even when we first started, I knew that this is a journey that we will always be looking for ways to to tell the story better to some degree. We even built some of the floors with a false floor so Louie could quickly change an exhibit outline what exhibits are not getting a lot of activity and let's bring one out and put something else in.
[00:20:10] We have only a temporary exhibit space, but the idea is that there's always ways to improve. And so that's just part of the mindset of going into it. I think for the most part, we've got a great museum, but we're always looking for. Is there a better way we can say it? Is there a better exhibit that we can do and we've got a list of ideas and that we're constantly reviewing and considering.
Henry [00:20:33] So you may be undoubtedly there probably other museums being launched by business people. But in terms of the big ones in Washington, D.C., most of them, of course, have been started by the Smithsonian, large governmental organizations. Are there any things, any principles or practices that you have brought over from the business world to the museum in such a way that maybe surprise some of the people around you? You mentioned one of them, of course, which is that the guy came to you and said, you know, you've got a winning concept. But as a business guy, you knew that you need to have more than just a winning concept you needed to execute. Had there been different times along the way that you found the business history and experience have put you in a direction that maybe somebody else might not have taken.
Steve [00:21:15] Yeah. You know, I think that there may be some things that we're doing that are in a museum world, not better all this way, but maybe stuffy and think that's not the way you do it. Just like our Disneyesque ride. Are there some that would think, well, that's not appropriate for a museum? We're just in there saying we're trying to engage people with this book. And if it takes a lot of technology and digital and a Disneyesque ride, because there's a new generation that is used to a lot of technology, then we want to take full advantage of that because we're here to inspire, you know, the masses to invite them to engage with this book. So we're open to trying some things that others may not have. Now, we're learning from the most recent museums that have gone in and there's some other great museums that have gone down that have done similar things that we have done as well. Not that we're totally unique in all that. And by some, the next museum, this bill can learn from us and the others as well and raise it up a notch as well. But obviously, again, going back to hard work, building a good organization that's having good people. But we are interested in being entrepreneurial minded in the museum and seeing what works. But we have tons to learn and we have a lot to learn from the museum world itself. I don't know how to market a Bible museum in Washington, D.C. It's a whole different animal from our retail stores. And we're going to be having to do a lot of learning and figuring out.
[00:22:35] And we've got a lot to learn from the other museums in town as well,.
Rusty [00:22:40] To Henry's point about the level of excellence. I mean, had you not built the Disneyesque ride, had you not pushed on the technology, it might have felt old and dated before it was opened. And that would have been Ex-Lax. That wouldn't be showing that we as believers in our efforts can stand with and be above sometimes what the world has to offer. So I applaud that. Hey, any interesting guests that have come through that maybe were not have faith or comments and stories that you might be able to share about that?
Steve [00:23:14] Oh, yeah. There's a lot that I don't know. But there is one to one. I remember hearing that one of our gentlemen was giving a tour to believe somebody from Israel, a Jewish gentleman, and was just talking about the diversity within the guests. And they go in to the Hebrew walk-through, which is on our narrative floor, which has received several awards. It's about a 40 minute walk. They're just telling the story, the Hebrew text or the Old Testament. And they walked in the first room and our employee made a comment. You know, there's the Muslim family there. And then there's also it many in a family there. And then there were Jewish people all in that same room. And the gentleman he was giving the Jewish associate, did you say just, you know, this is this is just what it looks like. So there's just a good cross-section of people in America that come through there. And that's what's exciting. We wanted to make it where that or an atheist would not feel uncomfortable, that we're not trying to push an agenda. We're just trying to introduce people to this book. And hopefully they will be inspired to get us no more for themselves.
Henry [00:24:17] It's great. So, Steve, you've been involved with helping uverse in the Bible app to get started in. Your family went ahead and resurrected Oral Roberts University and funded the Museum of the Bible and had been involved in some really, really cool initiatives that you felt led to and you've been able to execute with humility and with excellence. What's next?
Steve [00:24:39] You know, you'd never know if you had asked me 10, 11 years ago. I'd be on this journey. I would have not have imagined being on this journey. So we actually have a lot of work to make the museum the best it can be. And there's lots of learning to do there. But, you know, whatever God brings our way is what we'll do next. And I don't know that I know exactly what that looks like. But this has been, again, an exciting journey, one with its ups and downs, challenges. But as we see God go on with us and along with us, we say often that we aren't smart enough to figure out how to have done all that has happened. But you just know that God's in it. And it's an exciting journey. And so whatever the future holds, were anxiously looking forward to it.
William [00:25:24] That's awesome. And as come to a close on this podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. And this is not just for you. We do this at the end of every podcast. We always like to point back to scripture and going back to the Bible and God's word. And the question we like to ask is, is there a part of God's word? Is there a story? Is there a passage? Is there something that's come alive to you that is pertinent to your journey that God has you on right now, maybe today, maybe this week, maybe over the last few months or maybe over a year, just in this season that God has you on? Where's he put you in his word? And what is he shown to you?
Steve [00:25:59] Yeah, there's several that kind of come to mind, but the one that usually will sign when I'm signing my name or book or something is Psalm Chapter One. It's a chapter that memorized many years ago because of its great promise that. The one that meditates on God's word that whatever he does will be successful. Now, God's definition of success is not what many would define it as, but I believe that as we put God's word in our lives and as we live it the best that we can. God shows up and he guides and directs our steps. And as we look back on our lives, we can see and know that God has blessed it. So that's always been a favorite chapter for me.
William [00:26:41] Well, that's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. And thank you so much for sharing your story. I mean, I have not had a chance to go yet. I know my in laws were there. I really can't wait to get back up to D.C. and then take a tour. So so thank you so much for what you've done and look forward to seeing it myself.
Steve [00:26:58] You bet. I appreciate it. And I invite you anytime you can make a trip up there and hope your listeners will make trip as well. So thank you for your time.