Special: Faithful vs Willful (Financing, Fundraising and Bootstrapping)

This guide is intended for personal reflection and to help facilitate a meaningful group discussion. Take a moment to watch the video and read over the guide before your group meeting. Be prepared with some personal examples to help encourage discussion. If helpful, before you meet, print out or email a copy of this guide to all those who will attend the meeting.

Discussion Questions

As you consider the prospect of financing, fundraising, and bootstrapping, a tug between faithful and willful can easily play out—in a more subtle way than we want to admit or even expect. For those who are hesitant to scale a business, it could be that fear is holding you back. For those who are ready to grow, pride can easily cripple any attempt to raise the capital needed. Either way, you can become blinded to God’s urging or timing. Here are a few more questions to help your group go even deeper in discussion.

TIMING IS EVERYTHING

Moving from start-up to scale is no small endeavor and should be approached with humility and healthy determination. Still, timing can be a significant consideration.

  • Are you ready to scale your business? Are your heart and head in the right place? 

  • Do you have a healthy trembling when it comes to raising capital?

GO, BUT DON’T GO ALONE

You’ve worked hard to get here. And yet if we’re honest with ourselves, we need help to take the next step. Maybe that’s in the form of mentorship and guidance. Or perhaps it’s practical partnerships and connections.

  • What is your next step? Are you faithfully listening to God’s prompting for you? Are you going to him in prayer? 

  • Beyond that, have you made the connections you need to in order to begin raising capital? 

  • What more do you need to do to set yourself up for success?

5 Ideas to Explore the Mark Further

There’s no limit to the ways you can explore the Marks of a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. What we provide below are five ideas we think might lead each one of us to an even greater understanding of our God-given call to create.

  1. Journal: Write down what your next faithful step will be. How can you face the unknown with confidence, not in yourself but in God?

  2. Interact: This month, take the time to face your fears of failure. Pray unceasingly. Ask God for his help and guidance rather than relying on your own strength. How can you embrace your faith in a God who loves you and wants the very best for you?

  3. Consider: During today’s video session, Jessica said that business plans are important. A clear vision is important. But no matter how much we try to close that gap between the known and the unknown, eventually we will need to take the leap. It will require faith every time, no matter how big of a jump it is. Are you ready? What’s holding you back?

  4. Act Differently: Try your best to work from a place of courage this month. This boldness comes from your faith in God and everything you believe him to be.

  5. Learn From Others: Visit faithdrivenentrepreneur.org to learn more or join the conversation by listening to our weekly Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.

Entrepreneurs can travel a lonely road. But you’re not alone. You’re sitting next to a group of like-minded business owners right now. One of the best ways to grow the Faith Driven Movement is to multiply your group.

Is someone in your group ready to raise his or her hand to start a Faith Driven Entrepreneur Group at a local church? Apply at faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/lead-a-group

Episode 215 – Danielle Strickland Says Women and Men Are Better Together

Together with speaker and entrepreneur Liz Bohannan, this episode of the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast is one of a three-part series focusing on female founders and business owners who are pursuing entrepreneurship in different industries. Today, our conversation is with spiritual leader, author, and justice advocate Danielle Strickland. She has written several books and we’re going to spend much of our time talking about her newest title “Better Together: How Women and Men Can Heal the Divide and Work Together to Transform the Future.” Join us for an impassioned discussion about imagining a better world, embracing our differences as women and men, finding ways to end oppression, and learning how to work better together. 


All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific advice for any individual or organization.

Episode Transcript


Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.

Rusty Rueff: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast, together with speaker and entrepreneur Liz Bohannon. This episode is one of a three part series focusing on female founders and business owners who are pursuing entrepreneurship in different industries. Today, our conversation is with spiritual leader, author and justice advocate Danielle Strickland. Danielle has led churches, started training schools and established justice departments all over the world. She spent 22 years as an officer in the Salvation Army and is an ambassador for Compassion International and Stop the Traffic. Danielle has a deep calling to empower people. This includes traveling and speaking at conferences and gatherings all around the globe. She has written several books and today we’re going to spend much of our time talking about her newest title, Better Together How Women and Men Can Heal the Divide and Work Together to Transform the Future. Join us now for an impassioned discussion about imagining a better world, embracing our differences as women and men, and finding ways to end oppression and learning how to work better together. Let’s listen in.

William Norvell: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur. My name is William Norvell and it is such a gift today. Why? I’m sad one. And then we have a gift. I’m sad because Henry and Rusty are not here with me. And that’s always a sadness. It’s always good to see them and be with them. But it’s a gift because we have Liz Bohannon back as a guest host, and I’m sure everyone has been anxiously waiting since last week to hear of more from Liz. So Liz welcome back.

Liz Bohannon: Holding their breath. I’m so happy, so happy to be back. Thanks so much for having me.

William Norvell: Well, in case for some odd reason, someone missed last week’s episode, which is very rare. Very rare. Most people get every single episode. So. But just in case. Liz, tell us a little bit about who you are and why I’m so excited to have you as a guest today.

Liz Bohannon: Well, my name is Liz Fork Bohannon. I mean, maybe the first line of my bio going forward is going to be occasional co-host of the FDE podcast.

William Norvell: That’s what we hope.

Liz Bohannon: But in addition to that, I am an author, a writer, a speaker and entrepreneur. I founded a company called Sseko Designs. We are a sustainable fashion brand, and I’m just really, really excited to be having these conversations about entrepreneurship, about faith, about vocation. So thanks so much for having me back.

William Norvell: It’s super fun. I’m sure we’ll link in the show notes. We’ve had you and your husband been on the show before to talk about your business and how you run a business as a husband and wife. And it was phenomenal. And, you know, we love Ben, but I think it’s pretty clear we love you a little more since you’re here and he’s not.

Liz Bohannon: I’ll make sure that I carry that back to him. You know, we do we do have a scorecard. It’s really casual. It’s just on a whiteboard in our kitchen so that we can kind of see that on a daily basis.

William Norvell: Super healthy.

Liz Bohannon: That’s very healthy. Yeah. So follow me for more marriage tips, everyone.

William Norvell: Fantastic. Liz, do you want to welcome our guest, Danielle, here with us.

Liz Bohannon: I do. I am so excited to have this guest on our show with us. And, you know, as we were thinking about this series and about wanting to really highlight the voices of female entrepreneurs in spaces where a lot of times we are the minority, part of what we wanted to do right was just share these stories and have conversations about the really meaningful work that women are doing. And we wanted to take it a step further and kind of dive in a little bit more to that part of the conversation where we go, okay, how does this actually work? How do we work together? What is the role that men have in creating spaces for female entrepreneurs to thrive and deeply believing that these conversations need to happen? Also that it’s not us versus them? Right. I think a lot of the conversation about gender equality can have quite an adversarial tone and kind of a zero sum thought, right, that the more women win and excel, that somehow men are losing out on that. And I deeply hold the belief that if it’s true flourishing, it means it’s flourishing for men and for women, and that we can collabor and partner with one another in creating that. And so as I thought about this topic, there was one person that came to mind. There is one person that I was like, I will name her as the foremost expert specifically in the faith community about thinking and teaching and leading in this specific area. She’s written a book all about it and very much so uses her life and her energy and her leadership to propel this conversation forward. So without further ado, I’m very excited to welcome the one and only Danielle Strickland to the show.

Danielle Strickland: Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. It’s an honor to be here.

Liz Bohannon: So, Danielle, will you just dive in with us and share a little bit more, you wrote a book called Better Together, and will you just kind of share with us a little bit about where did this come from? Why was this topic, something that you felt was important and what was the message that you felt like was missing in the conversation that you wanted to bring to light?

Danielle Strickland: Well, the context was sort of when the world was on fire, the Pandora’s box of sexual exploitation and sexual harassment had opened after the MeToo million and then the church, too. And then Bill Hybels was right in the middle of that, you know, incredible exposure and scandal. And I was on to speak at the Global Leadership Summit. And the team you know called me up and said, Would you speak in this moment about men and women leading together? Which is quite a moment to try to speak to that. But at the same time, I had to pray and asking God what I could do, because the thing that I felt right away when I heard the news break, not just he’s just one example, but many news. I just was in relationship with that community. But when I heard that news break, I thought immediately the knee jerk reaction of people, especially male leaders, is going to be to distance themselves from women. And that seems to be the knee jerk reaction of all this news is like the problem must be segregation, right? The problem must be distance and disconnection. And so I really was praying at the same time, God, what do you want me to do? What can I do to actually stop a culture of fear from losing the ground that has been gained and actually moving us towards the better ideal that you had in mind from the beginning of all created things, right? Because relationship and leading out of equity and out of relationship. So really the book’s origin is me standing on a stage in the midst of the worst kind of news and all of these people leaning in from around the world saying, okay, what do we do now? And my dogged, rugged belief is that I refuse to give up on planet. And this is you know, it’s insane. On one level, it’s completely insanity based on all of my work with sexually exploited women, based on all the abuse stories I’ve heard, based on all of the even my own background. The easiest thing for me would be to say men, you know, take a break. We’ll get it from here. Like your track record up until this moment leads me to believe that you are not a worthy partner. I mean, that’s not usually how people start better together. But can I just start there? And then, even in recent months, by now, my reason church in Canada, another a leader that I highly esteemed and who disguised himself as a women’s empowerment person, was accused of harassment. And I resigned from that church. We’ve been through all of the ringer for and then just all of these survivors of clergy sexual abuse have come from all over. I mean, it’s just it’s remarkable. And so it has literally taken me all the faith I can muster. To say, actually, God’s original purpose for a shared leadership of the Earth is what I’m hanging on to. This is God’s design, so no wonder it’s under attack. But also, I am going to hold out for this answer to how we’re all supposed to lead. And one of the reasons I stay attached to that is because I have three boys. And so it has been impossible for me as a mother of three boys to just say men are out. I also have a great husband. Thank God I thanked him the other day. I was like, Thank God I married you. Like, I might have lost the plot. So I just cannot. I don’t have the luxury because of my faith. And I don’t have the luxury because of my relationships to just give up on men and women leading together. So when that becomes the case, when you shut the door on the exits, then you have to say, all right, how can we make this work? And that’s really better together? How can we make this work? So it was 27 minute talk and I had literally like 90,000 words of prep and just a deep dive. And the more I dive, the more there was to say and the more important it would seem to me the topic is.

Liz Bohannon: And if I recall, because we spoke at the same at that conference the same year right as this was going down, you couldn’t have had more than a few weeks to prepare for this. Right? So it was like not only is this a super heavy topic, a really important and intense moment culturally, but you also were under some pressure from a time perspective. Yeah.

Danielle Strickland: Yeah. And if I didn’t come out of prayer, so when I was praying about what to do, I felt like God said to me, reach out to see if you can help. And but then I thought, like, oh, that’s weird. Like, I’m not going to do that. And then literally they called me and said we were praying and we felt like God told us to reach out to you to see if you would consider. So if I didn’t have that, if I didn’t know it was God, I probably might not have ventured near it because a lot of my advocate friends. So I come out of an advocacy space. I’ve been a women’s empowerment advocacy person for my whole life. They were all saying, like, don’t do this. This is complicit. Like, you’re going to be a complicit part that she that is actually negative towards women. So it was a real I knew that God had called me to the space. I knew that God had something to say. And I knew that God doesn’t give up on his design and that it’s worth fighting for, you know, navigating that space. Yeah, I thank God it was only a couple of weeks. I can’t imagine, like living under that kind of pressure for longer in some ways. Right.

William Norvell: I was just going to ask Danielle, you said a phrase that I think I understand, but I wanted to give you a chance to put a fine point on it, especially for our listeners. You said you thought the first reaction would be for men to distance themselves from women. Could you talk a little bit about what that really means and what that may functionally mean in a business as well as life?

Danielle Strickland: Yeah. I mean, you can read the, you know, the Wall Street Journal shortly after the MeToo movement had a headline and it just said, Wall Street executive banned women from the workplace. Or you could just call it this Billy Graham rule. And you will, in both of those reactions, discover the knee jerk reaction of male leaders where they center the problem on the women, which is baffling to me on some regards, because literally all the stats would suggest over 90% of all harassment and abuse, even when it happens towards men, is perpetuated by men. So to suggest that women are the problem in the workplace is like a colossal loss of our minds and our reason. But when we center men like that, then the reality, the knee jerk reaction, is that to then make women the threat. And that’s what happens. Instead of actually women are telling the truth, like women are being honest, women are bringing forward an opportunity for us to better ourselves and become better organizations, better people, better churches, better businesses. We perceive that truth as a threat to our power. And so we literally distance ourselves and we push women away and keep them at arm’s length because we view them through the lens of threat.

Liz Bohannon: And specifically in this community. There’s so much. Yeah, the Billy Graham rule runs deep and the idea that by distancing yourself from women vocationally and professionally is not only acceptable, it’s like holy right where it’s own. It’s as if you have integrity. Then you’re going above and beyond to set up these rules to keep you from that. And of course, as women, we’re going like, or we could take a business meeting and you could just not harass me. Like that is also the option, you know, but the kind of holiness and integrity message around that I have found that misogyny within faith communities, it runs even deeper because again, it’s not just like we accept this, we actually really promote it. And especially when we have faith leaders like we’ve already mentioned on this show who outwardly say, like, I’m a proponent of women and women in leadership, that was one of the things that was most devastating to me because we all saw it coming as soon as that story broke. I think everyone who is in the space goes, here’s the rationale for now. Tens of thousands of men, whether they’re in faith communities or, you know, in the marketplace, to say, see, like it’s too dangerous, it’s too threatening. We should go back to the old way of just not having those conversations and never stopping to think like, what are the professional and vocational implications for women if we don’t take the meeting, if we don’t mentor, if we don’t found companies with them, if we don’t invest in them, literally devastating impacts that come from something that we are calling like, look, it’s faithfulness, it’s integrity, it’s holiness. And when you are on the other side of that internalizing that, you know, I remember one time there was a male business leader who I can’t even remember what we were talking about doing together. But we, you know, we’re setting up our first meeting and he was like, is your husband available? Literally use the word chaperon was like, hey, I’d love to meet with you about this topic. Is your husband available? You know, I always like to have a male chaperon when I’m meeting with a woman and I’m like a grown woman who is just like running a company trying to get stuff done. The level of how one just like patronized and degraded I felt in two. Yeah, that sense of like all of a sudden I went from like, oh, we’re like equals and we’re trying to come up with some sort of mutually beneficial, you know, business to do together to this idea of like that I’m a threat and that you have to protect yourself against this threat. The impact of that is just so often kind of goes like it stays very centered on the man and like, what do we need to do to kind of protect ourselves from ever having these accusations made? And instead of going like, well, we behave like humans that are mature and dignified, the answer is or we need chaperons.

Danielle Strickland: Right? And chaperons for the women, which is what’s so nonsensical. And what’s so is obviously an indicator of a misogynistic culture because the chaperon, according to all the stats, the chaperon should be for the men like male leaders, shouldn’t be able to do anything by themselves. They should always have somebody accountable with them. Like I actually almost maybe think chaperons are a great idea for male leaders, but where it all gets distorted is when you need the chaperon because there’s something wrong with you. But literally all the statistics will tell you you’re not the problem. You are the solution to the problem. It’s not that there aren’t women who abuse their power or manipulate or even sexually harass people. It’s just that proportionately it is so minimal that it’s almost not worth mentioning.

Liz Bohannon: And I do wonder, as we continue to achieve more equality, one of the things that I think about is I wonder if we’ll see that change. I wonder if as women gain more power and equality in society, if we’ll actually kind of see those statistics around abuse also become more equal. Right, because we know so much of abuse is actually not about sexuality, it’s about power. Right. And so it’ll just be very interesting to see how those dynamics shift, because I don’t personally hold the belief that men are more fallen than women. I think they just have more power and the systems are bent towards protecting and enabling and empowering them. So it’s a bit of curiosity that I have is like will a marker actually of equality and some kind of very twisted way be that more women will start abusing their power as they gain it? And I’m very open and willing to go like that might be a possibility. Let’s cross that bridge when we come to it, but it’ll be interesting to see how that evolves.

Danielle Strickland: One of the research factors of the Better Together book, which was fascinating to me, just researching the background, is how all of the research suggests that having women leaders on your team actually dynamically changes the culture of your team in collaborative ways. So that’s one of the pieces that women bring as leaders, and I don’t know why exactly. I’m not a big fan of like men are like this and women are like that. I think it’s all just a little bit of like nonsense. But one of the clear research specifics when women enter into leadership teams is that the leadership team moves out of competition, into collaboration at an accelerated rate. And this is the interesting as you highlight female entrepreneurs to be interested in some of the ways that they do their work if it isn’t more inherently collaborative, because women tend to lean towards that space, which is why now, I mean, Goldman Sachs and all your major Fortune 500 companies are moving towards female equity, not just out of the goodness of their heart, which I would pray it would be, but mostly because all the statistics show that it actually makes them a better company. And so I think what I think is the saddest part of Christian culture, being behind the conversation about women’s empowerment and this partnership and equitable leadership, is that this is the design. The reason why that works so favorably is because women and men were designed to work together. This is a part of what it means. The shared flourishing of the world is a shared leadership model. So I feel like that’s so sad that we have this recipe and we missed it.

William Norvell: Yeah. That’s amazing. I’m going to probably default to y’all and not add a lot of commentary there, but I’ve seen it and it’s sad and it feels like a major faith figure. It’s almost like a quarterly event now on the male side, which is just really sad and in to you all point. It seems to be one factor typically, you know, and it’s just really sad to watch and I loved your comment Liz, like, Oh yeah, or we could just not mess up over and over and over again. That’s another great solution.

Liz Bohannon: It’s not that hard. And Danielle and I could both tell you, we’ve worked with. I’ve worked with dozens. Sure. Hundreds of men that it’s just like it’s not that hard. It’s not like some sort of complex landmine, like, oh, my gosh. It’s just like literally by being decent and relatively self-aware, you can have beautiful, appropriate, working, respectful relationships like it. Really, actually. It’s not rocket science. So that is especially like maddening, which is like, are you just you just like don’t know what you can say or not work for? And it’s just like, no, actually, like my seven year old has a pretty good grasp on like what he can say and not say. Danielle, I’m interested to hear you had kind of mentioned so you resigned from the church in Canada that you were a part of in light of another abuse scandal. And yet you hold the nuance of saying in the case of, you know, speaking on this topic of I’m not going to abandon, I’m not going to distance myself. Can you kind of dive in and share with us a little bit of when do you know, how do you discern? When is it time to say, I have to leave and this isn’t redeemable or my place at the table would be complicit in something versus I’m staying and I’m going to be a part of the redemption story.

Danielle Strickland: Yeah, that’s a really good question, Liz, because I don’t even think there’s like benchmarks. I think there’s discernment that happens in community. I think for this situation, for me. So this is what’s interesting is in one situation I’d move in to help. In another situation I moved out to help. And so again, this is like a really fascinating for me the disclosure came through me so some the victim actually disclosed to me and I made her a promise that I would stand with her no matter what. So if they were going to silence her or diminish her or not say the truth and deal with it properly, I was with her, so I resigned not as like an act towards the church, but as an act of solidarity towards her. So for me that was a no brainer. So I think whatever guy calls you to in when it came to the deal sort of moving towards that was in a moment of prayer. It was at a relationship with those people. And it felt like to me and I think I do believe to this day that they wanted to get to the truth. They wanted to understand that they wanted to do better. And so they were moving in that direction. So I feel like, you know, they weren’t perfect. They didn’t get it right. There’s probably still some work to do, but they were moving in that direction. So I feel like if somebody is moving towards truth, is moving towards and embracing the light instead of trying to like silence it and push it away, then I think we can work together as long as we’re walking in that direction, as soon as we’re walking in another direction, which is the silence. The truth is to minimize harm is to say like, it’s not a big deal. Don’t talk about it. You know, any of those indicators are like, No, I can’t go this way. And I feel like if you are, I think especially my role in that church was a communicator, like I was a teaching pastor. So they wanted me to stand on a stage and speak on their behalf. But I knew that they were not embracing the truth. They were not naming what had happened. They weren’t giving proper attention and moving towards like, how can we change this culture? And so I couldn’t if felt complicit. I think that’s like a discernment thing that happens inside of you. And then I also think it happens outside of you. But I do think the time is here where a lot of women are coming to the conclusion that an exit is the only strategy they have left. I really hope leaders pay attention to this now because I am running into dozens and dozens and dozens of very qualified, wonderful leaders, entrepreneurial, pastoral, educated women who are exiting the church and droves because it’s the only strategy they have left. And now I’ve got some ideas. I’m working on a thing called the company, which is hopeful to launch 5000 church planters, female church planters in the next five years and to church planted in different ways outside of institutional structured program church. So I’m super excited about what this opportunity might mean, but at the same time, I’m super sad because, you know, at a time where we could use entrepreneurial, adaptive, collaborative leaders more than ever before, they’re leaving because they’re unheard, because they’re not changing anything, because the systems refuse to change.

William Norvell: Hmm. That’s so good. And yeah, I mean, praying through that and discerning those situations reminds me too of how I’ve talked before about people that find themselves in work culture. That they don’t feel as honoring to God, right. Whether it’s a Christian leader or not a Christian leader. And, you know, they come to me sometimes, you know, do I have to quit, right or not? And I’ve seen different people come to different conclusions. You know, one more high profile was the turnaround. You know, I had a bunch of friends in uber out here when, you know, Travis and everything was going on there and it was well known. Right. And some people felt called to leave and some people felt called to stay and change and fight culture. And I saw different people discern different things. And both, you know, were right in a sense. So I do want to transition to female entrepreneurship, because when I hear that, I’m so curious your thoughts on how we can encourage and you know, this is our listener, this me. I’m learning in this conversation and all throughout, you know, I’ve heard things, right? I’ve been in investment committee meetings with people and I’ve heard, you know, well, gosh, they’re young. And what’s going to happen when they have their first child? Are they ever going to come back? I’ve heard all kinds of things, right. We talked about other rules and that’s when our pride feels like comes up often. Right. And I’m just curious how you would tell me and tell us and our audience to encourage the female entrepreneurs out there that are trying to get going.

Danielle Strickland: Yeah, I think those are great observations and questions and real. Right. And which is we want to have real conversations. Women do have children. It’s probably what makes us so superior I that but besides that I usually use the example of the HSBC bank. When they ran into I went actually speak to their leadership team years and years ago when I was living in Vancouver and they were championing women leaders, they had a woman leadership conference sponsored by HSBC. And I was like, What is a bank doing? Having a like this is bizarre. And they actually said that they had come to this problem where they kept losing their people and their best people and they kept investing like exorbitant amounts of money in attracting and retraining management where as soon as people get to middle management, they would drop out and then they decided, what if we spend some money finding out where those middle managers are going and why? Maybe it would be easier to retain them than it would be to spend all this money trying to retrain. So when they did the research to find out where they were going, they were all women having children and leaving. That’s really what happened. And then they went and talked to them and said, okay, why are you leaving? Because you’re having children. And they literally were like, The hours don’t work, the lifestyle is inconvenient, there’s nowhere to do daycare. You don’t have any sort of support system in place for me to be a mother. And so ultimately I chose my kids. So the bank had this decision to make. They could either keep spending exorbitant sums of money, retraining people and deploy them who are not even as good as their old managers. Or they could adapt some things. They could change some things in their structure to be an organization that would fit the life of a mother and would make it possible for people to actually do meaningful work in a way that is flexible enough to meet their demands as a parent. And what they found is that they got all of those workers back and they did really kind of neat things, like they put daycares into their headquarters, for example, or they created flexible hours where people could create their own hours and they could work with their spouse in terms of making the best. But what they found is that not only did it bring back all those female managers, but HSBC became a company that everybody wanted to work for, and it became one of the best companies to work for as an employee because it bettered everybody’s lives that actually dads needed that, too. They just weren’t able to say so. So again, they just were like, this is a key part of the advancement of our company. So I think I would love to speak to young entrepreneurial spaces right now and say, do this now, do this now. Because not only will this be good for women that you’re working for, not only will this be good, it’ll be also good for the dads. It’ll also be good for the people. When you have a flexible, adaptable workplace that takes the skills and the creative energy and the gifts of the people that you have in your workplace and you work around that, maximizing their strengths and their potential and their capacity without killing everybody out and making the structure and system of the thing, the God instead of the people that can maximize their gifts for your calling. So if you do that now, I think that’s kind of a key thing that will not only benefit women, but will also benefit men.

Liz Bohannon: I love that. I think that kind of roundabout, you know, I think there’s this idea that it’s like, well, to build a more equitable workplace, policies for women need to be better. But the reality is I think you’re exactly right, Danielle. When we promote pro parental and specifically even from a male caregiver perspective, like as a leader, if you’re prioritizing your family, your home, your obligations outside of the workplace and modeling that for your people, that’s actually a really, really important part of the equation because by only focusing on something like maternity leave, what we’re actually doing in some ways is reinforcing, well, this is the women’s issue, right? Like having a kid is something we need to figure out. How are women going to work and raise kids at the same time? And this has been something just fascinating having. Worked alongside my husband to build our business. Just the expectation that gets reaffirmed, that’s like, Oh, well, we had kids. Well, what’s that going to do to Liz’s involvement? No one’s asking What’s going to happen to Ben as a dad? No one is going like, Well, you know, Ben’s about to have his first kid. We don’t know what’s going to happen after that. And so it reaffirms this idea that it is the primary responsibility and it’s on women to figure out how do we balance caregiving and vocations. And this is where you know I love. There’s tons of value in Sheryl Sandberg and in the Lean In message. But one thing that I’ve always kind of wondered is like, do we fix this by telling women just to lean in and act more like men? Or is there actually kind of a broader lean out message for the men that’s a part of this, of like, what would it look like for you as a leader in your organization to stop work at 5:00 so that you can do daycare pickups because your wife drops them off and you pick them up and like promoting that as like, I have responsibilities outside of the home and I will be a better worker and human and leader when I actually have a life that’s really integrated in the honors, these various spheres of responsibility that I have.

Danielle Strickland: Yeah. And that’s what they found. Right. And that’s what happened to their company is they thrived. They kept all their best workers, they retain them and they maximize their influence, but not at a cost to themselves. And so that I mean, doesn’t that sound like God? You know, and this is one of the things I’ve really discovered lately. If I read a study of Exodus where Moses is like all you know stuck in empire, he’s been raised understanding power and how to change things with power, taking power and power over and power that destroys. And Moses has this encounter with the burning bush in the desert. And he literally it’s not the fire. It’s not the burning that attracts it. It’s the fact that the bush is on fire, but the bush is not consumed. And Moses walks over and says, What is that? That is a different kind of power. So what if we were building things that weren’t consuming people? What if we actually, even on an entrepreneurial level, what if we had companies where the bush wasn’t destroyed in this entrepreneurial space and business space and churches spaces, this is where burn out. And people just being destroyed by this thing, even though this thing is powerful, is exponential, like it’s high. And I just think, what would it look like if we like Moses, rediscovered the God who can create sustainable, dynamic energy without destroying us? What would that look like? And I think that’s again, that’s a little bit about what we’re trying to catch, is this like these things that we’re talking about, about women aren’t really just about women. They’re about our attitudes, our perspectives, the way we live our lives, why we live our lives, what it is we’re trying to do in the world. And that beautiful thing, that flourishing world, that like creating places of beauty that do good work in the world. That’s where we come together. And our gifts, our magnify.

William Norvell: Hmm. That’s so good.

Liz Bohannon: I love that.

William Norvell: Yeah, I mean, it’s so true. I mean, just for me, out of my personal story, it’s my wife works in the hospital. She’s physician assistant. I mean, she has zero flexibility in her schedule, and I have some. Right. And so I’ve felt that, like, people literally can’t understand that I have to go get the kids. Or if an emergency, for instance, in my life in emergency, in day daycare, I go get my child like my wife can’t leave the hospital. Right. Like she’s in surgery potentially. Right. And no one gets it. It just like everybody’s so confused. When I cancel a call with someone, they’re like, Wait, what? You had to cancel the call for what? I’m so what? But just to say, I think that’s such an important message to send. And I want to give, you know, obviously both of you a chance to to answer this as well. But Danielle, first, I would just say, tell me more. Right. What are some of my blind spots that I just don’t see specifically? When I think about women entrepreneurs, when I think about the journey they’re on, what do I need to be more aware of? What do our audience need to pay attention to? And maybe even a third challenge, maybe a higher level? What’s my responsibility that I am not holding?

Danielle Strickland: Yeah. I mean, aside from creating sort of flexibility, adaptability within the workplace, I would say that a lot of people try to solve problems for women. Without women, that’s problematic and actually will just lead to everybody being frustrated. So what I suggest as a first step, if you’re an entrepreneur and I would say this is great because if you’re an entrepreneur, do it now. Don’t wait till you have this organization. That’s all like male leaders. You’re sitting around a boardroom with everyone that looks exactly like you, and you lack diversity and adaptability and creativity, and you’re thinking like, where are the women? And then all these guys around the table are coming up with where the women are. You know, like, it’s ridiculous because nobody actually knows. So it’s like, why don’t you actually go find some women now, and why don’t you ask them what they’re passionate about, where their leadership skills are with? They might want to join you now and what they have to say to you now, like, where are the barriers now? So there’s some beautiful examples in Better Together where there’s like leadership teams exactly like that. There is this guy, a friend of mine, Jeff, and they were around the table and they all had value. They want to see women empowered. They want to see women lead. They knew they were lacking that space, but they didn’t have any women around the table. And so the first step they did was they went and asked women, Where are you? Why aren’t you at this table? What are the barriers like what to prevent? And that feedback was phenomenal. Like they saw things they never, ever knew. And one of the things they saw was that the barriers for women volunteering for leadership are way higher than for men. So and this is true research even in secular places where men will apply for a job, for example, if they meet less than 80 of it, 75% of the job requirements men will apply going: I fit that. Women will not apply if they don’t need 100%. So there’s already sort of this like internal cultural dialog that’s happening in women. Now, the research that I found is actually really troubling in this regard. It said that a woman’s self-confidence peaks at nine years old. A woman’s self-confidence peaks at nine years old. So the most self-confident a woman will ever be is her nine year old self. Because after that, things like puberty, high school, and then sort of cultural, basically misogynistic messages and practices kick in. And so it’s like an assault on women all the time to not like, I’m not enough, I’m not enough, I’m not enough. So there has to be a disproportionate amount of resistance given or like extra work done to push back against those regular voices that are happening, both external and internal, from a cultural norm of like, you’re not enough this. So there has to be a disproportionate. Now the guys that have done this and even companies that have done this say they’re so glad it was worth it. It felt at the time like a disproportionate investment. But afterwards the result was so phenomenal that they’re just like, we would do it again 100 times. But that first year just sort of like it’s not worth it. Like if I have to go out of my way to find women, if I have to, like say, no, you can do it, try again. You know, like if I’m constantly having to like fight against this not enough ness, it can get exhausting. So I think one thing is to do it early, to do it quick. So to have vision, to say we want a diverse group. And I would say this is also key to diversity in general, but we want a diverse group of people. And so let’s aim for that now instead of later, and let’s do that ahead of time. So let’s try to bring those barriers down if we can. So what are the barriers internally and externally? So oftentimes extra coaching is required, whereas just getting those internal voices to quiet down and confidence building. So confidence building in women is actually a thing that’s necessary. And then the other thing is an only syndrome. So oftentimes teams will go, okay, good, we have a woman and sometimes we’ll call that tokenism. And sometimes I just think it’s genuine. We want to begin somewhere and we have this woman, so we’ll begin. But what happens is that those women become the only is actually a syndrome called the only syndrome. And this happens in diversity, too. And they’re just always the dissenting voice. They’re always the one that doesn’t fit. They’re always the one with a different perspective. They’re always the one that. And so they just get tired and worn out and they quit. That’s what happens. And there’s onlys everywhere. What they say is and again, what you want is this is not a gift. You’re extending women to be kind. This is a strategy that you’re exercising to diversify and strengthen your team. So this is a gift to your team to do this well. And if you do, do this well, what you want to aim for is what’s called the 30% quota. The 30% quota is 30% is what’s required to create any cultural difference to any team. So no matter what the team is and no matter what the difference quota. So if it’s about women on your team, you need 30% for that team to get any positive cultural change. Now what happens in the studies, which is really fascinating, is once you get to that 30%, it almost always exponentially increases, like the Rwandan government, for example, had a 30% quota of politicians in Rwanda to change their structured system. They’re now at 65. I think they’re the most female led country in the world. 65% are female politicians. So I would say that that quota usually increases because as soon as then people can see themselves, then people can have a narrative that’s different. Women can, married women can, married women with children can on and on, these go these barriers become lower and then the power increases and the power increases collectively too.

William Norvell: Yeah, I love that. It reminds me of an article. A really good friend of mine runs a venture capital firm where she invests in women only, and she wrote this article that says Investing women is not a bleeping charity.

Danielle Strickland: And well, yeah. Or you could talk to Muhammad Yunus, who created the Grameen Bank, who pretty much only invests in women because the returns are so high, you know? So, again, it’s not even, wow, I’m such a good guy. He’s just like, this is the most effective means by which I’ve discovered to do this, you know, to break the back of poverty. That’s yeah, that’s.

William Norvell: What Jesse’s going for, too. And she’s really, really good at it.

Liz Bohannon: And just acknowledging, the extreme disparity. I mean, it’s so extreme in venture capital, for example, I think in 2021, the statistics were less than 2%. Less than 2% of all capital was deployed to women. And if you’re a woman of color, then you’re literally in sub 1% like I think it was 0.002%. So it’s powerful even just to acknowledge the reality of where we’re starting, because then all of a sudden you realize like, oh, we have a really long way to go and it actually is going to require more intentionality from us. And I think even just like recognizing our own very ingrained cultural biases, I think one of the questions that’s really powerful to ask is, how would I feel about this response if it was coming from a man instead of a woman? Because one of the things that faces so many women in the marketplace is this idea we are so as a culture, we don’t like, quote unquote, aggressive women. Assertive women. There is like such this sense. They did this really interesting study. And I can’t remember if I talked about this on the show with Paula. So if I did, we can edit it out. But it’s so important, I think, for us to understand this, where they had two sets of resumes that had the exact same qualifications and all they did was change the name. One was like a very obviously female name. One was a very obviously male name. You read through all the qualifications. This is a very qualified, successful person that you’re reading the resume of. And so people read either the male resume or the female. Again, the only difference was the name. And then they just asked a series of likability questions, right? Like how much? How much do you want to be this guy’s friend? How good of a parent do you think they are? How good of a buddy do you think they are? How good of a colleague do you think they are? Would you want to work with this person? Be with this person? And what they saw is that for a man, those successes made him intrinsically more likable. There was this sense of like, Oh, I want to be this guy’s friend. I want to be with him. And around him there is this affinity towards them. And for women, the exact opposite happened. I was like, Well, she might be successful, but she’s probably a B, you know, like she’s probably not very fun to be around. She’s probably super intense. She’s probably this and that. Like at the core of, I think, how God created us, we desire a sense of belonging, right? Like every one of us just wants to belong and we want to be loved. And so by acknowledging how much we’ve created a cultural delta of what does it mean to be a likable woman, and what does it mean to be a likable man? And we’re going to have to do work, actually, to counteract that and to say, like, we’re rejecting the notion that by being successful or assertive or a great decision maker as a man, that makes you intrinsically more valuable or likable. But that that’s a cost for women and it takes intentionality. And so I think even just like asking those questions, William is really powerful of just like, oh, that rubbed me the wrong way. The way that she said that or that email felt a little terse being like, Huh, if her name were Bob or Frank instead of Jill or Jane, would I feel that same way and just interrogating ourselves internally and doing that internal kind of affinity bias work. And I think those two things, what Danielle just spoke about from more of an institutional level all the way down to me as a single individual human, I’m going to do the hard work to kind of examine my own biases and confront those. I think those two things together are really, really powerful.

Danielle Strickland: Liz I would add one more thing into the mix. I agree with you completely, but I would say since this is a faith driven podcast, how we view God.

Liz Bohannon: Yeah,.

Danielle Strickland: And how we see God is inextricably linked to this conversation.

Liz Bohannon: Yeah.

Danielle Strickland: And so the idea, I think for many of us for years we believed God is this like CEO in a corner office trying to keep a business together. And we have not embraced the Trinitarian power of Self-Giving communal love in like this furious leadership. I mean, the Trinity is it’s inextricably linked to one another. We don’t even know who’s responsible. We know they were all at creation, but we don’t know who really created like did God create the spiders and Jesus create the mountains or the Holy Spirit do the seas? I mean, did they split it up? We have no idea. But we know that it was a Trinitarian effort and that the key thing of the Trinity is that all of them are honoring the other one. And it’s this fascinating, beautiful theology that I think we’ve lost in this season of individual information age, building things that are architectural. There’s a CEO and a hierarchy chart, and we lost this like beautiful. And I really think that’s why the only time in creation God said this isn’t good is when he created men. And what he what he said was, this isn’t not good. He just said this isn’t completed. So when men were leading alone in the original creation account, God said, Stop, don’t do that. There’s something better and the better. Wasn’t just the woman, the better was the together, the better was the shared, the better was the mutuality. And the reason that was better is because it was a better reflection of God. And that ultimately is a foundational theological truth that should drive us towards mutual flourishing relationships and team leadership and shared responsibility and self-giving loving goodness in the world. That is the opposite. That’s Moses walking to a fiery blush going, What is that? That is different from anything else I’ve ever seen. And so I think the rediscovery, I actually think there’s like a spiritual revival that’s going to be part of this where God has got to undo the ways we view God as male, as authoritative, as hierarchical, as controlling, as taking like empire, like a big, big pharaoh. And we have to rediscover the God of the burning bush that does not destroy the God of be duality, the Trinity, the Self-Giving, the mutual flourishing God who says the only way to reflect me is to work together, because what other difference will there be with faith venture versus a regular market […]. The irony of this whole thing is that oftentimes what I find in the marketplace is more reflective of mutuality and equity and justice and love than a lot of Christian faith based practices. And I’m always like, What on earth? How is that possible? Like, how can we rediscover? And I think these images that we have of God are at the root of that. There’s a whole chapter of that in Better Together, but that I do believe that’s a deep, deep work that the Holy Spirit needs to do inside of us.

William Norvell: Hmm. Amen. That sounds like a whole other podcast and of itself. I want to peel back the layers of that. That sounds amazing, but unfortunately, we are moving towards the end of our time here. Obviously, we will link to the book and things like that, but what we love to ask at the end is just we love to invite you to share some scripture from God’s Word that may be coming alive to you in a new way. It could be something you read this morning. Could be something you read your whole life, could be something that you think about right now spontaneously. We love Holy Spirit Scripture as well, but we love to just see how that transcends between our guest and our listeners and how often the word jumps alive in different ways for them as well.

Danielle Strickland: Well, like I said, I’ve been stuck at this image of the burning bush, but the link to it is excellent aid that you will receive. So as the disciples trying to figure out how on earth are we going to do this work, which I don’t know who’s listening to this right now in the middle of your faith entrepreneurial exercise. But I feel this way about everything I do is like, how on earth am I going to do this? And God says to the disciple, Jesus says, You will receive power. And that power has often that’s a word dunamis. It’s often translated as dynamite, mostly by men, but it’s also dynamic. It’s dynamic, sustainable energy. You’re going to receive dynamic, sustainable energy so that you can be my witnesses. And that word witness actually means martyr, so that you can lay down your life, so that this kingdom can actually come in the world. And so that Acts 1:8 thing, it’s just been all inside of me these days, I just can’t shake it. And that’s that rediscovery. It’s Moses discovering this kind of different kind of power. And it’s God really speaking to me saying, not only is my power greater than any other power, it is as different from as it is greater than any other power. And if you could capture that, that would change the way you do everything. And that’s what I’m after. I want that kind of power.

Liz Bohannon: That’s just so. Thank you so much for sharing that, Danielle. That’s really powerful and that imagery. You’ve given me something to really noodle on. I really appreciate that.

William Norvell: Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. Just such a gift to have you here and start such an important conversation. As I said, hope is the beginning and not the end. And hopefully we can make some progress and come back on and talk about how to make more progress.

Danielle Strickland: Excellent. Bless you guys.

The Creative Entrepreneur: You Have Been Called to Create

Well-known business experts and global entrepreneurs regularly contribute to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur blog and podcast. As stewards of these archives, we’ve curated a number of voices to provide you with diverse perspectives on popular business topics. Our intent is that these fresh pieces of wisdom will guide you as you faithfully pursue your own business journey.

Every entrepreneur is a creative entrepreneur. 

You may not be an artist or a designer. You might not dress in bright colors or play a musical instrument. But if you’re an entrepreneur, then you’ve been called to create. You look around a tired marketplace and think, “I could create a better product. I could provide a more appealing service.” 

You feel it deep inside you – a need to add your mark to the world. 

Why else would you start your own enterprise instead of joining up with an established business?

Being an entrepreneur is difficult, but it’s also worthwhile. At Faith Driven Entrepreneur, we believe that every entrepreneur has been called to create, and this drive is what makes starting a business so compelling to so many of us. 

But what does it really look like to be a creative entrepreneur? What are some examples of creative entrepreneurship? And how does the call to create manifest itself in our day-to-day entrepreneur journey? 

To answer these questions, our team has curated some of the leading voices in business to explore what it means to be a creative entrepreneur.

What Do Entrepreneurs Create Exactly?

When we say “creative entrepreneur,” we don’t quite mean artists who sell their art through their own business. While Etsy shop owners and painters who sell their pieces through galleries are considered creative entrepreneurs, we’re not equating creativity with art. 

An entrepreneur is creative in a much different, much broader sense. For those of you who quit your artistic ambitions at stick figure doodles, don’t close your browser just yet.

Instead, entrepreneurial creativity means working toward a vision for a better world. In his article “Superpower and Kryptonite of Entrepreneurs,” Justin Forman, President of FDE, writes: 

We praise entrepreneurs who try to solve the world’s problems. We praise them for never being satisfied. It impresses us how they shout from the rooftops, ‘Bury the status quo in a time capsule.’ With increasing emotions and visuals, they paint a beautiful picture of why the offerings of today are simply not enough. They call us to visions of a future reality … one where we can see, feel, and explore an existence where things can be better.

If you ask a random entrepreneur on the street why they started their business, they’d probably give a similar answer. They saw an opportunity to make the world a better place through business. Then they made it happen.

The creative drive of entrepreneurship comes down to basic Business 101: “How do we meet a market need?” Human beings are always going to be hungry, uncomfortable, afraid, tired, and lonely. The creative entrepreneur comes up with new ways to meet those needs.

The pizza shop owner says, “My pizza can solve the hunger problem.”

The banker says, “My bank can help reduce financial instability.”

The hotel booking site says, “My service can help people relax by taking vacations.”

But can you see the issue with these examples? All of these business ideas exist already. If an entrepreneur were to start a new business in these industries, they would have to come up with a creative way to stand out from the crowd. They must not only meet a felt need in the market, they must differentiate themselves from competitors. 

Again, we’re back to Business 101. To differentiate a business strategy, an entrepreneur will almost always prioritize one of three tactics: 

  • Be the best – Discover a creative new way to increase a product’s quality

  • Do something different –  Meet a brand new need in the marketplace or adapt an older technology for a new purpose. 

  • Do something for a lower cost – Think outside the box to create new efficiencies in the market

No matter which differentiation strategy you choose, you’ll need creativity. And in our fast-moving world of high-speed data and constantly shifting market preferences, creativity is becoming a non-negotiable, not just for startups but for every company. Companies that begin as industry vanguards but refuse to rely on entrepreneurial creativity soon fall by the wayside.    

The Harvard Business Review article “Leaders Can-Turn Creativity into a Competitive Advantage” demonstrates this shift in corporate strategy: 

What we need is a shift in emphasis from operational competitiveness toward creative competitiveness —  the capacity of organizations and society to create, embrace, and successfully execute on new ideas.

Nurturing a creatively competitive organization requires curiosity above all else. Asking the right questions is more important (and more difficult) than having the right answers. One of my favorite Victorian entrepreneurs, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, asked the seemingly ridiculous question, ‘How can I create the experience of floating over the English countryside?’ in his quest to building the first large-scale, long-distance railway service in England.

The creative entrepreneur is first and foremost concerned with curiosity and adaptation. To put this into the perspective of faith, we might say that the creative entrepreneur taps into the infinite nature of God to imagine a brand new world. The creative entrepreneur resembles the creative God we see in Genesis.

Simply put, the entrepreneur creates a business that offers a product or service to uniquely address unmet needs in the marketplace.

Seeing God’s Creation Reflected in Entrepreneurs and Business

If you’re familiar with theology, you might have heard of the term “ex nihilo,” a Latin phrase meaning “out of nothing.” This phrase is most often used in relation to the creation of the universe, where God spoke matter into existence from nothing.

In a way, entrepreneurs do the same thing on a much smaller scale. We have visions for businesses that don’t exist yet. Creation is what sets us apart from other business professionals who may manage, steward, or analyze already existing endeavors without bringing about something new. For example, an R&D engineer uses their skills to create someone else’s next big product. But the entrepreneur is the one who hires the R&D engineer to make their vision a reality.

At Faith Driven Entrepreneur, we believe God is the original entrepreneur. He created the world, and it was good, and He continues moving all of history toward His ultimate redemptive goal. God is actively working out His plan to meet our human needs physically and spiritually. What’s more, God uses us to accomplish that plan.

An article by Theology of Work says it this way, “When we allow our creative ability to flow as God designed, our lives exemplify the very words Jesus prayed: “your kingdom come and your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” 

And so, if God is the ultimate entrepreneur, what can we learn from Him? What aspects of His nature can we mirror in our own businesses?

It’s not enough to define creative entrepreneurship as being able to meet market needs through business. That’s too vague. We must get exceptionally clear on what needs we are going to meet. And if God loves us in certain ways, perhaps we can demonstrate that same kind of love to our clients and customers. Here are five ways God’s creativity finds itself reflected in entrepreneurship. 

Let these aspects of God’s nature inspire your own entrepreneurial journey.

  • Entrepreneurs Can Provide Security

    When the Israelites were heading toward the promised land in Exodus, God created manna to make sure they wouldn’t starve. It was an incredible act of creativity, an act most Israelites would have never imagined in their wildest dreams. Bread that covered the ground like dew! 

    God works to provide security for his people, and so can entrepreneurs. Brett Hagler joined the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast to discuss his vision for 3D printing entire villages. Brett’s business model embraced a creative vision:

    It just seems like people are attacking this problem [of providing shelter relief to Haiti] in a very traditional manner. And I was longing for something that would have a little more risk-taking, a little more innovation and R&D budget… If I was only passionate about the mission of helping people who didn’t have safe shelter, then I could have joined another organization. But I thought that we need a new way to attack the problem and try a model that would be built with different operating principles.

    What a creative solution to this problem!

  • Entrepreneurs Can Instill Order

Anyone who studies science will tell you that God’s created universe exhibits layers and layers of order. Chemistry studies the way elements and compounds interact based on observable rules. Astronomy wouldn’t manse sense without the regular workings of gravity. In fact, all of science is based on the basic premise that we can conduct observable and repeatable experiments. But what does this have to do with business?

Do you ever think you could use more order to your life? Or have you ever considered how Google, one of the world’s largest companies, is only valuable because it organizes information so effectively? Look at Quickbooks if you want a great example of a company that creates orderly systems to benefit others. Order is inherent in God’s creation, and businesses can profit greatly by offering systems that help people live orderly lives. 

  • Entrepreneurs Can Encourage Rest

Burnout and exhaustion are common experiences these days, and entrepreneurs are not known for practicing work-life balance. God, however, created Sabbath for Himself and for mankind. God rested from His work, and He asks us to do the same. Let’s not forget that Sabbath came about from an act of creation. 

Jordan Raynor, author and entrepreneur, recounts the season when he began to truly embrace the idea of Sabbath: 

As my wife and I began to practice Sabbath, it quickly became clear why Jesus said the Sabbath is for man and not the other way around. The Sabbath is an opportunity to rest from the pressure of the world to constantly accomplish, earn, solve, spend, and do. It’s a day to step back, as God himself did on the seventh day, and enjoy the fruit of our labor. It’s a day to look at our life, our work, and the cross and say with great contentment, “This is enough!”

We all need a Sabbath perspective on life. Whether through time-saving devices or curating restful experiences, entrepreneurs can place rest at the center of their product development.

  • Entrepreneurs Can Build Community

Facebook was supposed to usher in a new epoch of community and connection. Despite the grandiose headlines, we all know how that turned out. It seems that we’re more disconnected than we’ve ever been.

But Facebook also proves that human beings have a deep need for community. And entrepreneurship can meet that need. From Meetup.com to Pinterest to bowling alleys, there are legitimate opportunities found in facilitating relationships. 

In fact, Faith Driven Entrepreneur is working hard to bring business leaders together across the globe. Our mission is to connect one million faith driven entrepreneurs. And that happens in our Foundation Groups. Feeling lonely? Learn more about entrepreneur groups.

  • Entrepreneurs Can Create Beauty

The FDE blog and podcast archives are full of stories of craftspeople who use their talents to create beautiful objects for people to enjoy. From custom coffins to bestselling rap music, Christians are using their talents to glorify God. 

In a blog post titled “Etched in Excellence,” Peter Greer writes, “The words ‘poor quality’ and ‘Christian’ should never be used to describe the same organization. Substandard work runs contrary to God’s calling, even while excellent work—as Buck Knives can attest—can open doors to share the Gospel.”

Some entrepreneurs might look down on beauty and say it’s not practical or efficient. But God created beauty and appreciates it for its own sake. He saw that creation was good; He didn’t need to show 15% CAGR for beauty to be worthwhile. Purpose-first filmmakers, architects, and understand.

This list begs the question – what kind of creative entrepreneur are you? What kind of creative has God called you to be? How will you use your unique vision and talents to meet a need in the world?

How to Become a More Creative Entrepreneur

Creativity can be a difficult trait to harness. It seems to come and go as it pleases. But thankfully, creativity is not random, and it’s not a quality you either have or don’t have. Rather, creativity is connected to curiosity, brain chemistry, and social environment. If you’re feeling uninspired in this current season, know that there are practical steps you can take to improve your creativity. Here are a few examples.   

  • Take a Creative View of Creativity

    Don’t let narrow cultural narratives around creativity create mental roadblocks. Earlier in this piece, we mentioned that art and creativity are not the same. You also don’t have to participate in shallow stereotypes like “being quirky” or wearing outlandish clothes to be considered creative.

    Sometimes we get obsessed with “originality,” the idea that every invention has to be revolutionary for its field. But in fact, most technological advancements have been simple upgrades to previous systems. Apple understood this when they set up the “desktop” as the hub of their computer’s graphical user interface. In effect, Apple digitized an already accepted concept, which was key to their acceptance by the mass market.

  • Find Mentorship and a Creative Community 

    People often ask whether entrepreneurs are more creative as individuals or in groups. As it turns out, both contexts contribute to creativity. It’s not an either-or question. According to creativity research summarized in Fast Company, “The way to maximize creative potential is to flow between being alone and being in a group, and back again.”

    However, many entrepreneurs tend to isolate themselves. Loneliness and isolations are topics we cover extensively at Faith Driven Entrepreneur. Therefore, we recommend that entrepreneurs find mentors and communities that spur creative thinking. Find a trusted advisor who will help you think through new ideas. Join a coworking space or a Meetup group where you can brainstorm with like-minded entrepreneurs. A balance between individual reflection and community thinking will most likely lead to creative insights into your business.

  • Don’t Force Creativity

    In an article titled “3 Common Fallacies about Creativity,” writers Pronita Mehrotra, Anu Arora, and Sandeep Krishnamurthy note that decision-making speed and true innovation don’t always go hand in hand. They write:

    A few months ago, articles critical of Google CEO Sundar Pichai argued his slow decision-making process stifled innovation. The articles incorrectly equated decision-making speed with innovation. We don’t have insight into whether his “slow” decisions were innovative, but the misconception that slow decision-making stifles innovation often leads to the illusion that productivity requires speed.

    Like a novelist mulling over their next masterpiece, it might take months or years to tease out the details of a great business idea. Demanding production from your creative process only leads to stress, which is counterproductive to creativity. 

  • Stop and Listen to God’s Voice

    A lack of creativity may mean God is asking you to reevaluate your trajectory. You feel stuck, frustrated, and exhausted. These negative experiences sometimes indicate that you’ve gone off track or that God is calling you in a different direction. We are meant to co-create alongside God’s master plan, not build rogue empires by our own designs. Creativity is a grace given to us by our heavenly father. 

The Creative Entrepreneur is Healthiest Within the Body of Christ

Americans love the idea of the individual entrepreneur. However, the individual entrepreneur is often an isolated entrepreneur, and we know that isolation can hamper creativity. Not only is the isolated entrepreneur ineffective, but the narratives surrounding the lone wolf entrepreneur are mostly myth anyway. 

Nearly every pop culture entrepreneur had partners and support along the way. Larry Page was partnered with Sergei Brin. Steve Jobs couldn’t have succeeded without Steve Wozniak. Thomas Edison had the financial backing of JP Morgan. 

In a blog post for Faith Driven Entrepreneur, Thane Ringler reflects on what Wendell Berry has to say about humans in isolation:

Left to ourselves with our natural bent, we will decay and self-destruct. Degradation simply happens; we don’t have to do anything to help it out – gravity does the job. But to flourish, to create that which is beautiful, to make things new and good – that is “difficult and long.” We see this with the things we build constantly needing repair and maintenance, and we see this within our own bodies that will slowly and surely lose functional ability without exercise and training to build it up and make it stronger.

As faith driven entrepreneurs, we’re reminded that we all function within the body of Christ. We all have unique gifts that complement and strengthen other gifts held by other people. Entrepreneurs possess specific skills and perspectives, and society couldn’t thrive without them.

Tim Holcomb, the chair of the Department of Entrepreneurship at Miami University says:

We are at a point that when we hear ‘entrepreneurship,’ we assume this means someone is starting a company. There is so much more to entrepreneurship than starting companies. Entrepreneurship is a unique skill set and mindset, and as fast as our world is changing, we need more people who possess the entrepreneurial toolkit to keep pace, adapt and address new challenges as they arise.

But entrepreneurs are just one piece of the puzzle. It is through Christ that all things are made new, not the individual entrepreneur, and in this way, we are but shadows of the ultimate entrepreneur. God is the only one who truly creates “ex nihilo.” Faith driven entrepreneurs create by taking cues from God’s blueprint. 

While we may possess a unique vision for a better world, that vision is given to us by God. 

It’s why Faith Driven Entrepreneur’s mission includes, “From the very beginning, God created us to share in His entrepreneurial process with purpose, passion, and pursuit. He gives us ideas, dreams, and ventures to reflect His image and bring about His glory.”

The entrepreneur creates within the context of the body of Christ, His church. This is where the entrepreneur is most creative – they proceed according to God’s will and benefit from the skillsets of other people. Without accountants, advisors, investors, janitors, manufacturers, and employees, the entrepreneur can’t do much. Or they burn out quickly as the demands of a complex business tax their talents and abilities. But by relying on God and others, the entrepreneur is able to unleash their creativity and change the world for the better. 

The special role of the creative entrepreneur is to tap into a small sliver of God’s great plan, clarify how that vision plays out in the world, and bring it to fruition. God uses entrepreneurs to bring about His kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven. Our creations can bring order out of chaos, solve problems, seize opportunities, rally against injustice, and create dignity and opportunity for those who interact with our creations.

You are a creative entrepreneur. We hope that the many voices included in this article encourage you to dive deeply into what creativity means for you.

Want to explore the idea of creative entrepreneurship further? Join an upcoming Faith Driven Foundation Group. There, you’ll connect with 10-15 other entrepreneurs who are also pursuing a creative relationship with God.

The Church as a Platform

— by Elias Janetis

Someone once told me that when you go broke, it happens slowly, then all of a sudden. The Church is at that “all of a sudden” inflection point. On a recent trip to the small town in Pennsylvania I grew up in, I noticed something deeply concerning. Church after church in the town was being converted to apartments and yoga studios, and several were seemingly abandoned. Covid hasn’t done any favors for us either. It doesn’t take much to observe the steep cultural decline that our world has been in. We’ve been witnessing the erosion of our cultural influence over time. The counter cultural revolution of the 1960’s, the drug fueled 70’s, the excess of the 80’s, the rise of secular humanism in the 90’s… the beatings have gone on. I remember as a young man how the Church became political in the 1990’s as we battled seemingly everything. We lost the PR battle, and we became the people who hated everyone not like us. Of course, this isn’t true for most of us, but nonetheless, our perception from the world was negatively impacted, and it hasn’t recovered to date. We no longer have a seat at the table of culture and power. 

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The recent Gallup poll on church attendance is at a historic low, with no signs of slowing in the downward trend. Take a look at any mainline church, and you’ll notice that the vast majority of the membership is in the 71+ age bracket. Look at those same rosters, and you’ll see very little people 30 and under. 

I have heard more than once that this next revival is going to be birthed out of the business community…that’s us ladies and gentlemen. God has given us giftings for organization, capital formation, leadership, vision, and strong execution. I know many of you are doing amazing things in your communities, but I believe that God wants to unlock more of our talents and creativity for Him. Below are some ideas (not suggesting any are original); they are just some I believe can make an impact on others, as well as our reputation. 

The Church as Platform.

I have been thinking about this notion lately. Some of the most successful companies are platforms that have aggregated supply and demand in a more efficient and effective manner. How can the Church reinvent itself as an effective community platform? 

Connect the needs of the community with those that want to serve.

Want to win back the youth? Harness their heart and idealism for service to others. The Church needs to do a better job of aggregating the needs of the poor, the widows, the homeless, and those 

suffering, with those in their communities that want to help. We need to look beyond our walls for volunteers and bring the lost alongside us as we serve others. We need to be that trusted intermediary in the community. Service to others is at the core of our Christian tenets; we are to be “others orientated.” This to me is one of the bullseyes that we should be targeting. 

Communicating and learning in the digital age.

The days of people showing up for an hour, singing a few songs, and listening to three points and a poem in mass are probably behind us. We are experiencing a tectonic shift in how people work, communicate, and learn. We need to catch up to the vanguard and deploy technology to bring us and keep us together. How we learn has been changing, and in a world where the average person has an attention span of a fruit fly, we need better engagement and teaching through video, SMS, etc.…I am not talking about entertaining people, but there’s a science on engagement, and we should be utilizing best-in-class methodologies to reach people for Christ and to nurture their faith. An algorithm will never replace the Holy Spirit, but it can help organize us and keep people connected in this digital age. The Banana that leaves the bunch gets peeled! Let’s find better ways to stick together. 

Our brand should be LOVE.

No disrespect to The Beatles, but the New Testament 

established long before Paul, George, John, and Ringo that, “All we need is love.” This foundational element of our faith has been lost in the culture wars. Christians are not known for their love; yet Christians are some of the most, if not the most, generous people on the planet. Why doesn’t the average person on the street know this? That’s a problem for our brand. We need to start playing the long game and not sabotage ourselves with controversial talking points. I once heard a preacher say that we can’t save a turkey from Thanksgiving dinner—that it’s not our job to save anyone but to point people to Christ. We need to lift Him up, and wherever in the Bible Jesus was mentioned with sinners, you only saw grace and love flow from Him. Does God have standards? Yes. Should we live by those standards? The best we can. Should we beat sinners over the head with those standards? No. We should love them, share God’s love with them, and let the Holy Spirit and the power of His Word change them. 

In closing, I also believe we should launch a major PR initiative—where’s the Church’s “Greta”? We should utilize the best techniques of crisis management and storytelling to change the narratives in the media and, most importantly, in our communities. This will ultimately be accomplished through service, empathy, and love, on our part, and through the Holy Spirit and His Word—His Word, in action, through us.

Article originally hosted and shared with permission by The Christian Economic Forum, a global network of leaders who join together to collaborate and introduce strategic ideas for the spread of God’s economic principles and the goodness of Jesus Christ. This article was from a collection of White Papers compiled for attendees of the CEF’s Global Event.

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Episode 214 – Paula Faris is Working Hard for Working Moms

Paula Faris has spent well over two decades in broadcast television. Most recently, she spent nine years at ABC News where she co-anchored “Good Morning America Weekend,” co-hosted “The View” and launched the “Journeys Of Faith with Paula Faris”. The Emmy-Award winning journalist released her first book, “Called Out: Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs For A Life of True Calling.” When she’s not speaking or writing, Paula is running CARRY Media, a company she founded to amplify the story of the working mom. As part of a series of episodes focusing on women entrepreneurs, we’re joined by Liz Forkin Bohannon who serves as co-host today. Liz is a renowned business owner and a previous guest on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.


All opinions expressed on this podcast, including the team and guests, are solely their opinions. Host and guests may maintain positions in the companies and securities discussed. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as specific advice for any individual or organization.

Episode Transcript


Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.

Rusty Rueff: Welcome back, everyone, to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our guest today is Paula Faris. Paula has spent well over two decades in broadcast television, beginning with TV affiliates in Chicago, Cincinnati and Dayton, Ohio. Cutting her teeth behind the scenes by shooting, editing and producing. Most recently, Paula spent nine years at ABC News where she co-anchored Good Morning America weekend, co-hosted The View and launched The Journey of Faith with Paula Faris. The Emmy Award winning journalist released her first book, called Out Why I Treated two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling and have started the Paula Faris Faith and Calling podcast. Now, Paula is using her platform to champion others when she’s not speaking or writing. Paula is running CARRY Media, a company she founded to amplify the story of the working mom as part of a series of episodes focusing on women entrepreneurs. We’re joined by Liz Forkin Bohannon, who serves as our co-host today. Liz is a renowned business owner and previous guest on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Let’s listen in.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Hello to Faith driven entrepreneurs around the world. My name is Sue Alice Sauthoff. I’m the director of operations here at Faith Driven Entrepreneur. And today I am joined by the wonderful Liz Forkin Bohannon, who some regular audience members may recognize from our video series. And as a previous guest on this podcast, if you don’t already know Liz’s story, I really recommend that you go back to episode number 65 and spend some time getting to know Liz because she is a phenomenal storyteller, speaker, author, and we’re so privileged to have her on the podcast today. Liz, welcome back to Faith Driven Entrepreneur.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Thank you so much for having me. Sue Alice, I’m so excited to be here. It’s funny that it’s been really fun to watch the growth of Faith Driven Entrepreneur on a lot of levels, but one of my markers for it is how often people are saying, I saw you in the video series. And so the more people say that it’s just so fun to be like, Wow, this is growing and people are watching this and they’re meeting in groups and communities are being transformed. And so I want to say, we’re getting to Shark Tank level. We’re getting to Shark Tank level of I saw you on the TV with Faith Driven Entrepreneur. So it’s really fun to get to have that little benchmark for the growth of this community.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: That’s amazing. Your video story, I’ve been in so many groups and have just seen the impacts of how it challenges people to look at their world differently and realize that they can look through a different lens and that God can use them for such a more significant impact than they ever thought possible. So that is super encouraging to hear for our listeners. This month we’re highlighting the voices of female faith driven entrepreneurs from the movement, and we couldn’t do the series without featuring today Paula Faris, who in 2020 left her dream job with Good Morning America and The View to start CARRY Media, which is a company that is committed to telling the stories of working mothers. Paula, welcome to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. And let me be the first to say thank you for what you do. I’m a working mother. I love Carry Media. I look forward every Sunday night to getting the carry on newsletter I submitted to the Why I Work thing and you featuring my photo and I was so excited.

Paula Faris: Sue Alice. That’s amazing. I just got.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I just love what you guys are doing and. Yeah, it’s so fantastic. We know that you’ve built your career on journalism, right? But now you’re pivoting to share the stories of working mothers. So kick it off with what is the question that you think working mothers get asked often?

Paula Faris: I think working mothers probably get asked like why they work. Do they work because they want to work? Did they work because they have to work or do they work because they get to work? I found that a majority of moms these days are working because they have to work for the paycheck. It’s just the reality of our economy, you know, and one of the things that always drive me crazy, you know, as a working mom, was just this level of the perception that we come to the table as a risk and a liability and we’re not committed. Like, are you really committed? How can you pull all of that off? Right. And I think there’s no greater sector, corporate sector, employee sector than the working mom, because we just know how to get stuff done quickly. And we do it with courage. Right. And we do it with efficiency and we do it with great leadership and vision, all the things that make an ideal employee. Yet we get scrutinized, right. Because, oh, she’s a mom, right? She’s probably counting Cheerios in the corner. But I just want to give working moms a voice, whether they get to work, have to work or want to work.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: That’s so good. That’s so good. So tell us a bit of your backstory. You’ve shared very candidly about being burnt out since your job. When you’re at The View and GMA, give us more details on that.

Paula Faris: Well, by the way, Liz, did you notice what necklace I’m wearing?

Liz Forkin Bohannon: I did. I love your Seiko designs. Mama necklace. My favorite. Do you wear it every day?

Paula Faris: Every single day it says Mama. Thank you very much, Liz. So just a little bit of my background. You know, I went to school for broadcast communications and production work behind the scenes and finally had enough courage to face my own fears and be in front of the camera. And that was I graduated college in 97 from a small liberal arts school in Ohio. And then my first on air job was in 2001. And so the way it works in broadcasting, broadcast communications, it’s kind of like coaching. You started a peewee level, then you move up to middle school coach, high school coach, college coach, and then, you know, the pinnacle is the NFL. So for me, I started as a PA making seven bucks an hour, putting together a tape, finally got on air. Smaller markets. Dayton, Ohio. Cincinnati, Ohio. Chicago, Illinois. And then for me, the NFL came, which was this big network job at ABC News. So we moved our family to New York City from Chicago back in, I think it was 2011. And, you know, did the whole like I’m at the top of my career, top of my game, I’ve reached the pinnacle. And then I got to the top and I was like, I lost sight of who I am. What good is it to gain the world and lose your soul in the process? And it was so hard to be a working mom at that level. And it’s not that I wasn’t committed. It’s not that I couldn’t do the job. I could do the job. But I just found that so often the workplace doesn’t work for us and the workplace wasn’t working for me. I was spending more time at work. I wasn’t able to spend time with my husband and my kids. A lot of that was on me, but I think it’s just the expectations that we place on ourselves, the expectations that society places on us. You know, we never feel like we’re nailing it, right? We’re burnout, we’re exhausted, all of those things. And so 2018, I pump the brakes. I was anchoring GMA weekend. I was co-hosting The View, like, literally had it all. And I just felt God calling me out of that space saying, you need to slow down. You have to get your priorities straight. And so I did. And then.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Paula I’m curious, can I ask like.

Paula Faris: Yeah jump in.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Camp out there for a little bit? I’d love to know for you what is the difference between or what was the difference between, hey, I’m going through a particularly challenging season that’s kind of requiring my all in this specific area of my life, and I need to work through that and it’ll be challenging, but I’ll come out on the other side of it versus I need to change something because I think that that’s something just in general. Like as an entrepreneur, I really struggle to know, okay, what’s a season that it’s right for me to be like all in because I know that there’s end in sight. And then when am I telling myself it’s a season? But actually, if it’s a season after season after season after season, that’s actually your life, right? So I’m curious, like, what was it for you specifically in this moment that made you realize, oh, this isn’t just a particularly busy or challenging season. This is I need to, as you said, pump the brakes. Like, what was that signal for you?

Paula Faris: Yeah, it’s finding that difference between just like a little pivot and a total reroute, you know, or a detour. Like, how do you know the difference? So, you know, I had sensed a stirring in my spirit that I was supposed to pump the brakes, but then, you know, I’m like, God, you called me to this. Why would you call me out of it? Right? I worked so hard. I’m doing this for you, right? Why in the world would you ask me to walk away at the top of my game? Right. And so I started to have this restlessness within my spirit that I was supposed to do this. And then I was like, you know, I was so scared about it. People will think I’m crazy that, you know, I was a has been that I’m washed up, that I couldn’t hack it. And so I just kind of pushed those feelings to the side, right? I pushed them to the side and I dug in even harder. And then I write in my book Called Out that I think that God allowed a very trying season to happen to get my attention. And so people will say, Oh, you’re a brave for walking away at the height of your career. I wasn’t brave. I was just like follow in the signs. I was I felt like Job. So within, you know, a short period of time, I had some major things happen to me that got my attention right. And at the end of those, I just wave the white flag. So I had a miscarriage with an emergency surgery like hours before I got this exclusive with Sean Spicer. You know, so like I’m doing this exclusive interview, the first one to sit down with him after the White House. And I had just learned that there was no heartbeat. So like you said, that was the first thing. Then I ended up that I had to have an emergency DMC. Then I get hit in the head freak accident with an apple. Okay, like 60 miles an hour right before I was going live. No.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: How on earth is an apple going 60 miles an hour? Tell me.

Paula Faris: So I was going live for Good Morning America down in Wall Street and like seconds before I. Was supposed to go live. All of a sudden, like something exploded on the side of my head. And the surveillance video, according to the police, the NYPD said that it was traveling 60 miles an hour. So I had a concussion. All right. From a freaking apple.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Okay. I am sorry. I don’t mean to get hung up on this. Where did the apple come from? Did someone throw the apple?

Paula Faris: Okay. Yes. The surveillance video shows two kids, probably high school kids there. They backpacks on. Never found them. Were running down the subway steps. They must have stopped at one of the little bodegas. One of those stands grabbed an apple. And just to be stupid, right? That’s what young boys act. And then they think, right. Just hurled it as fast as they could. That’s what surveillance video showed. So it hit me like right behind my ear. Like if my face was turned, my face would have been shattered. But the police said 60 miles so basically took a 60 mile an hour fastball to the head, concussion. So I was knocked out of work for three weeks. They they wouldn’t clear me to come back to work for three weeks. The day I was cleared, I get in a head on car crash. Okay? I’m not making this up head on car crash, so I’m out for a little bit longer. Then I get influenza, which then turned into to pneumonia. So I’m either at this point, like, life’s fine. I’m sure God wants me to keep going at this pace. Or I was like, There’s a big white flag. God, you got my attention. If I’m not going to slow down, you are physically slowing me down and that’s what God did. And so I kind of went kicking and screaming, to be honest. And so I finally decided, okay, I’m going to do this. It’s crazy. I’m at the top of my game. Who does this? But just realizing, you know, that my values were clashing with the choices that I made. So pump the brakes and 2018 couldn’t figure out who I was outside of my job. Right. And then, you know, a year and a half later, I did leave ABC.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Can you tell us a little bit more about that season? Like, what was it when you said I couldn’t figure out who I was outside of my job? Like, what did that look like? What were the questions that you were asking yourself and what were the signals to you that your identity was so wrapped up in your job that you didn’t know it when you were in the midst of it?

Paula Faris: Well, it’s like it was the loss of something, right? And there’s always I didn’t expect that vast array of emotions, from anger to denial to I was feeling everything. But I think there was more. I was angry at God in some capacity that he forced this on me. Right. And then I was angry at myself because I. I always took pride in the fact that I was a believer that I could walk like literally I would say I can walk away from what I do is still know who I am. But actually, when the rubber met the road and I had to walk away from what I did and I didn’t have those fancy titles attached to my name, I didn’t know who I was anymore. And so just like it was a season of self-discovery and reckoning. Eating crow, you know, like everything I thought that I was. And the way that I thought I had built my career. There was a lot of self-reflection. And then, you know, I feel like God just slowly started to heal my heart and show me that my identity and worth were never supposed to come from a job. And my value wasn’t a vocation. My worth wasn’y work. You know, my calling wasn’t just career because, you know, I was also angry at the church because often we’re told to find our calling and it’s always career related. And then when our career changes, we don’t know who we are outside of it. So I was angry at a lot of people, a lot of institutions, including myself, right, for how I got to that point. But God gave me a lot of freedom and permission to try new things and new seasons because my worth isn’t my work and my value isn’t just my vocation. And God’s going to call me to do a lot of different things throughout my life. I thought I had to be a broadcaster forever. He showed me. Mm hmm. I’m going to call you too many different things in many different seasons. But your ultimate purpose is to love God and love people. And wherever you’re placed vocationally, that’s the conduit. That’s the way in which you will love God and love people. So it’s honestly given me like this new lease on life and permission to try new things and new seasons, which is why I’m dabbling my toes in, you know, this area which has been on my heart for like eight years, to really give working moms a voice and to change the game for them to become an entrepreneur. I’m not an entrepreneur or anything. I don’t have my master’s in business. I don’t know the first thing about it, but I know God gave me this passion that I’ve had for a long time, and I know that my worth isn’t in my work, so I’m just going for it and I continue to press in. I’m like, God, if you want me to keep going for it, keep bringing the right people around, keep surrounding me with the right voices, continue to give me courage because I’m scared as hell. But I just feel I feel like I have the courage to try something new, to try something that’s really scary, to give myself permission to see myself in a new capacity. And often that’s where it starts. Like we don’t give ourselves permission to even see something new for us, and then we freak out because we’re like, nobody else will see me in this new capacity. They’ll see me as this because this is what I’ve done for my whole life. But it starts with us. It starts with permission. And it starts with knowing your true worth and where your true worth lies.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: So good, so walk us from the transition out of broadcasting into where you are now and why you’re starting CARRY Media. Tell us more about what CARRY Media is doing and what this next season looks like for you.

Paula Faris: Mm hmm. So. So there’s a little bit more that happened. It wasn’t just like 2018. I pump the brakes, and now I’m here. 2018, I pump the brakes and I do stay at ABC, but in a much lower capacity. Like I went from an anchor and a co-host to a general correspondent. But that was my choice because I wanted to get my life back. Well, then, the first chance that ABC had to renew me. They decided they didn’t want me. So I had a choice at that point. And that was the end of 2019, early 2020, right when the pandemic is happening. So I have a choice. I got get back in TV, which is the expected thing. I mean, and I interviewed at several other networks. That’s the expected thing. In fact, one of my friends, when I told her that I was going to move to South Carolina and get out of TV, she was like, you can’t disappear into the ether. You’ve built this great career. And I was like, Why is that disappearing into the ether? I just want to try something different. You know? So like, there’s these expectations that others have on us. So I had two choices stay in TV, the safe, comfortable choice, or move to South Carolina. My sister is down here. So that’s like the South Carolina connection. And my husband, he’s in real estate. So we had just invested in an investment property and decided to come down for a couple of weeks at the beginning of the pandemic, just because the world shut down. And we get down here in March of 2020. We think for a couple of weeks or like we packed three changes of clothes and we just felt this overwhelming peace from God to just stay. And we weren’t sure what was on the other side of it. I mean, I knew I was losing my job. They had given me a six month extension, but I knew I didn’t have anything else lined up. My husband’s jobs. Back in New York, he runs a commercial real estate firm in Manhattan. We have three kids, you know, uprooting them from everybody that they know. Literally, we had no idea what was on the other side, but we just felt this peace to stay. And so we prayed about it and were like, it wasn’t stay. And I’ve got this for you was just stay. And that’s the hardest thing to sit in because it’s not enough just to stay. Sometimes we want to stay. If we’ve seen that next chapter, I’ll stay because God know, all we were commanded to do at that point was to stay. And so we did. And we ended up selling our house in New York, moving down here permanently. My husband was able to get a different job within the company that is a little more flexible and allows him to work remotely out of the blue. I had one of the largest faith based podcast networks call me to ask me if I would do a podcast. And I was like, Yeah, amazing, right? And so that came out of the blue. But I really felt God was just saying, I want you to pursue this company, this thing that’s been in your heart for a really long time. And so we decided to do it. And I emptied one of my retirement accounts and poured it into CARRY. And before he was even named CARRY, and I was able to go on, you know, the VC circuit. Turns out women get like no VC dollars. Moms get like less than that. I found that out firsthand.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: So and then let’s talk about if you’re a black woman who has kids, then it’s like when you host show up on the radar.

Paula Faris: But you can’t. So I get what that feels like not to be a black woman with children, but it’s real. Like it was so hard to raise any money. Luckily I did an angel investing round, just friends and family and they’re like, We believe in you, so we’ll do this. But decided to go for it and God’s just continually open one door after another. But I was telling Liz, Liz came on my podcast, I was like, Liz, I can’t sleep anymore. And she’s like, Welcome to being an entrepreneur. It’s like there’s this sense of responsibility that you have that you want to steward this, you know, those feelings of, Am I crazy? Am I still am I supposed to be doing this? But like, it’s continually pressing into the fear. I have a peace that I’m supposed to do this, but it’s not easy and it’s scary and it’s really scary. If you’re an entrepreneur and you’re in this space and like every other conversation, you’re Googling the acronyms that people are throwing around because you have no idea what any of it means. Like, I just feel out of my skin sometimes, right because I don’t understand the business world. But the really cool redeeming aspect of this is, you know, God gave me the permission to try something new. I’m good at asking questions. I like to champion people. I like to challenge people. My nickname was Paula 20 question So I’ve just always been inherently curious. So God says, use that in this new space and I’ll show up everywhere else around you and just steward it. And I had. Continue to remember. This isn’t my worth. Right. And God’s going to show up if God calls me to something in the same way as with Moses, I’ll be with you. And that’s what I have to cling to. And that’s what I continue to cling to.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Yeah. Paula, we had a shared experience of I actually was raising capital at the time I was pregnant. And I just remember being so struck by this physical manifestation of this season of life that I was in, that I very much so share with my male counterpart in life, partner and husband who doesn’t have that same thing, right? So it’s like he walks into a room to raise capital and very likely no one’s going to ask him really anything about his family. How many kids do you have? What season of life that you’re in? Like that just would naturally not occur to him. For a woman, generally, the thought does occur. People want to know. And then if you happen to be biologically reproducing, you can’t actually even hide from that. It’s like I’m literally walking into a room and my body is signaling to you something that you will now make a story up about in your head. You might ask me about it, you might not, but you’re asking yourselves questions. It just like I just remember being so struck by the lack of parity in those like two experiences based off of gender and knowing that it’s just like whether or not it’s set or not, that is impacting my likelihood of success in this moment. And remember being asked questions that were kind of beating around the bush of just, you know, like and at the time it wasn’t my first kid. And even like knowing people are judging that there’s like, okay, well, good, it’s not her first. So she kind of knows what it’s going to be like to be a mom, but it is her second and that’s kind of a lot like you can literally just see people kind of integrating that into their questions about, you know, taking risk or not on you literally with no words being exchanged, just like this is my body and you’re looking at my body and making these decisions.

Paula Faris: It’s sad and it’s an unconscious bias often. But it’s not just anecdotal. You look at the VC dollars and women get less than 3%. Moms get less than that. You know, women of color get even less than that. So it’s not just how I’m feeling. It’s not just my experience. It’s the experience of women and mothers in general that we get 3% or less of the VC dollars. It’s crazy.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Totally. And I think it’s important to acknowledge I mean, one of my like rules in life, right, is that I want to assume the best in people. And like, I don’t think that when I walk into a room, a male investor is like consciously saying this is not a good investment or this risk is too high, but it is. If you are not consciously working on your unconscious bias, you are allowing your unconscious bias to make the decision. And I don’t I don’t think it’s malicious. I don’t think it’s bad. I don’t think it’s ill intended. But, you know, I remember listening to an investor, I was speaking at an event and there was like a panel that was happening between an investor and somebody who had been invested in by this guy. And he was just like kind of sharing about his general matrix for how he picks his investments. And a couple of the things were like business points, but then he kind of wrapped it up by saying, like, at the end of the day, it’s really important to me to being like, who do I want to like get a beer with, smoke a cigar with, go sit in a hot tub and have like a nice, long conversation. And I remember sitting in the audience being like, you’re never going to smoke a cigar with me in a hot tub and that is going to and that’s going to preclude me from like, getting your money and just being like, that’s so freaking unfair that it’s just like, I’m not going to go on a hunting trip with you most likely. And I get the sentiment of what he was sharing was like, I want to invest in people. I think the good seed of that is like, I want to have shared values and I want to be able to have a friendship with this person. Sure. But if we’re not super aware of that bias, like even things such as like gender of like, okay, well, cool. You’re like a 50 year old white dude and I’m a, you know, in my late twenties young mom. So I’m now precluded from that opportunity. And that’s very different than like but we do have shared values. We could have a great friendship and great business relationship. But if you’re not really consciously thinking about what it looks like to pursue that outside of your norm, of like who are my buddies that I want to go hunting with, then you’re going to preclude an entire sector of entrepreneurs. And that’s not just about gender, right? That’s about gender. That happens socioeconomically. That happens with education level, that happens with race and ethnicity. All of these things that it’s like it’s not I don’t think people are evil for doing that. We naturally want to be around people who are like us. Yeah, we’re not consciously aware of that and putting systems and processes in place for us to act outside of that than we are just perpetuating those biases.

Paula Faris: And we also need men in the fight. It’s not that women are better than men or men. Or better that like, I think we’re equals. We’re different, right? Like, for me, it’s not making a case against men. It’s making a case for moms, for mom prenuers, for moms in the workplace. And I think that’s an important distinction, too. Like, I am writing a book, it’s coming out next year called You Don’t Have To Carry It All. Ditch mom guilt and Find a new way forward. And my very dear friend and co-anchor at GMA, Dan Harris, is going to be writing the foreword because I like we need men in the fight with us advocating for us and they need to know that they’re invited to the conversation and that they’re not going to be emasculated. And Sue you mentioned, like, why I even decided to go for CARRY a long time ago. And Liz, I may have shared this with you, too. You’re on my advisory board, so if I haven’t shared it with you, shame on me. But, you know.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: We’ve got it now in front of all our listeners too. I’m really excited about this update.

Paula Faris: So it’s like a mixture of my experience being a working mom, right? But it really started about eight years ago when I came back from maternity leave with my youngest, and this is my third Landen and my very first day back at work. And, you know, I hurried to get back to work at ABC. It’s just you never feel like your job safe and you feel like somebody else younger and smarter and prettier can. I mean, that’s just the environment, right? Someone else will take your job quick. And so I rushed back to work. I, you know, used as much as my family leave as I could and some sick leave. But my very first day back and I was already feeling awful about myself. I experienced postpartum for the first time with this pregnancy and thereafter, and my body wasn’t bouncing back. Right. And I had to spend a lot of money on clothes that weren’t going to fit in a couple of months because there’s no transitional clothes for mothers. We’re just expected to squeeze back into our, you know, skinny jeans, which doesn’t happen.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: I mean, not to have a shameless plug, but Sager designs dot com. I designed a pair of pants for women postpartum. So I’m just going to say I wish I wish I would have gotten to it a little bit earlier there for you. I failed you, Paula, but we’re there now.

Paula Faris: You didn’t fail me. But my very first day I’m back at GMA and back at the desk, and I got an email from an executive after the show and it said, Not your best look. And I was like, not my best look. And I responded, I was like, just first day back from maternity leave already not feeling great about myself. If you could give me a little bit of grace, that’d be great. And I was like, hurt. And then I got pissed. So I was like, Why am I being held to this unreasonable, unrealistic, unhealthy standard to bounce back like. I just had a freaking kid. Why am I being punished for that if I don’t have kids? If women don’t have kids, right, then society is going to cease to exist. And if we don’t have kids, we have fewer kids, then we have a labor shortage and then we have an economic crisis. So guess what? It behooves you to start supporting mothers in the workplace. So I got really angry and I was like, This is not the experience that working women, working mothers should have. Why are we punished? Why are we treated like a risk when in reality, like I’m starting to become like the best employee that you could possibly want because I’m more efficient. Parenthood makes you more courageous. When you’re pregnant, you grow an empathy. Like there’s scientific proof that all this stuff happens and we’re becoming the ideal employer. Yet we’re held to these traditional workplace standards that don’t support parents, don’t support working moms, but like do the right thing and support us, because otherwise we’re going to have an economic doom. We won’t have a kids anymore. So anyway, that’s why it started. That’s where it started. And then God just continually was like, drip, drip, drip. I’m not going to let this go. I’m not going to let this go. But for me, it was, first of all, giving myself permission to try something new and then permission, you know, to get over the fear of what other people would think of me, because I’m been a broadcaster my whole life and now I’m an entrepreneur. I’m in this entrepreneurial space, founding a company. What? So but that was really the genesis. And CARRY, I just it was a name that came to me. I was just praying. I was like, I need a name, Lord. And I, you know, I want to carry the burdens of working moms. So that’s why it’s called CARRY. It’s as simple as that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I love that. So lean into it a little bit more you talked about just you’re not a business background. You never thought about becoming an entrepreneur? I think we hear all the time from entrepreneurs that find themselves in that same space of I’m not sure if I’m qualified to do this or I don’t have the background for that. What have you learned since starting CARRY about yourself, about being a working mom, about being an entrepreneur? What are some of those new lessons God is teaching you?

Paula Faris: Well, when I had Liz on the podcast, we were saying, like, journalists make really good entrepreneurs because we’re naturally curious. And so I’m realizing too that like, again, God calls us to different things in different seasons, but like my gifts and talents that won’t change that God gave me my ability to ask questions. I’m curious as hell. I like to challenge people. I like to champion people, and I just had to kind of redirect that to this new space as leaders. This is probably one of the biggest things I’ve learned is it’s so powerful to say, I don’t know what I don’t know. Right. And to just acknowledge that. But what I do know, this is a space. I do know I do know how to challenge people and to champion them. And I do know how to ask the right questions. And I do know that God put this on my heart. I have a peace about it, but I’m still just so scared. And I’ve learned that the peace and the fear will go together. So just get used to those two things. Get used to not sleeping a lot, you know, waking up in the middle of the night, that’s normal. But getting used to the peace and the fear that you have to reconcile in a new space that you didn’t see for yourself where you feel unqualified, completely unqualified to pursue. So those are just a couple of the things that I’ve learned. But yeah, it can be overwhelming. But, you know, one of my friends just said I was like, you can get paralyzed, you know, paralysis by analysis and you don’t know what to do. And she’s like, just do the next right thing. Just keep doing the next right thing. And that’s what I’ve been doing. I’m just taking steps. I’m doing the next right thing and it’s scary and it’s a very, very unknown. But God continues to honor and I’m amazed at just the puzzle pieces that continue to show up. You know, we are a for profit media company, but media companies are a slow build, right? So everybody that I have like three people that are on my staff that are part time and they’re just like the absolute perfect puzzle piece and it’s only God. So it’s all of those only God moments. But so often God wants us to take that first step and then He meets us there, take a step and he meets us there. And I’ll never forget it was a couple of years ago. God really taught me this lesson and I get lost in a paper bag. I can’t find I mean, I’ve lived here in South Carolina for two years now. I still have to put in GPS directions to, like, get anywhere. I’m just so bad with directions. And I was putting the directions in. And you know how like at the very beginning I put the destination in and at the very beginning it’s calibrating. It can’t figure out where you are, like in a parking lot and you’re like, Oh, do I go left or right? Like, you can’t ever tell. And it’s not until you actually turn and then. It might reroute you or it calibrates. It’s like, Oh, you’re going the wrong way or you’re going the correct way. And that’s how it is with entrepreneurship, with faith, with being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. You have to take those first steps. That’s what it is to be a child of God. That’s part of the faith journey. You take the first step, then God reveals you’re on the right path or you’re not. But you have to take a step of faith and you’ve got to get used to the peace and the fear coexisting together.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: That’s so good. I love that analogy. And it just also I love these moments where as people of faith, I don’t know if you all have this where I felt the same way, Paula, when you were talking about identity, I was just like, I’m so grateful. I feel so lucky that I have a story and a tradition and a narrative that reminds me of that. But like, I’m not, you know, one of the every night when I put my boys to bed, our kind of family prayer starts out with, I’m not what I have, what I do or what people say. I’m a child of God and no one can take that away.

Paula Faris: I love that so much.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: And the amount of nights over the last six years since I’ve been a parent where I’ve laid in bed with my boys and have said that out loud, and I would say I’m saying it for them. But like, actually, this isn’t like Mom deeply needs this message right now. I’m like, I’m not what I have. I’m not what I do, right? Not what other people say. And just like how grateful I am that as people we have, like there’s just been many seasons of entrepreneurship that I am just like literally, how would you do this without an identity that goes beyond how successful you are or what you do or what you can accomplish or how fast you can grow? And I mean, the reality is entrepreneurs suffer from mental illness like at a far greater rate than the general population. And you wonder why. And it’s like, duh, absolutely. It’s like, here’s the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Everyone’s looking to you for answers. Everyone’s looking to you asking, How are you going to take care of me? And there has been I have experienced as an entrepreneur just being very honest, like at times a deep sense of loneliness, of going like, who’s asking that of me? Like there’s no one else who’s looking at me going, How can I serve you? What do you need? How can I, you know, what’s your career path? How can I help you along that? What do you need to thrive? How is your work life balance going of just being like, I’m pouring out and pouring out and pouring out and then like, who is coming to me and who’s watching out for me?

Paula Faris: Yeah, it can be lonely.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Of course, people of faith. Like we get to follow up with the answers like the Lord. Yes, like that. I have a greater security and that I have that there is this constant companion and friend and mentor, as cheesy as that sounds of like my friend is in Jesus.

Paula Faris: But, but I do want to encourage you, Liz I do want to encourage you I have found a community of women who are entrepreneurs, small business owners, whatever that industry may be. And we get on a call once a month and we are on a text chain and we encourage one another because who else are you going to talk to about? I don’t know how to manage people. Like that’s probably my biggest weakness, right? Like talking to them about these things that you’re really struggling with. But in a community where you don’t have to carry at all because you’re right, it can be very lonely. You’re trying to steward an especially a Faith Driven Entrepreneur where you’re you’re trying to steward this thing that God put on your heart. But you feel this responsibility, this deep responsibility to making sure that your staff is well cared for, you know, the servant leadership aspect of it, it can be very lonely. So I would encourage you to find some people and connect to anyone listening and don’t wait for anybody out. Like I had to initiate this. And it has been incredible and it’s just the things that we’re sharing with one another. It’s our circle of trust. That’s what we called it, you know, the circle of trust. We can say anything and everything and we cheer each other on and we encourage one another because.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: It’s so vital to this journey.

Paula Faris: It is so vital to this journey. So, oh, my gosh, it’s so vital. I couldn’t do it. I mean, I couldn’t do it without community.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Actually, Paula, I was thinking of you the other night because in my community of female entrepreneurs, literally and sorry if we lose people on the Enneagram here, but literally every single woman in our group is a female 8.

Paula Faris: A Oh my God, you’re my people.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: I called Paul. I got to call Paula. Okay, so we have we have a lightning round. So fun. Super rapid fire questions. Yes. We want to ask you follow up. Okay. Okay. So here we go. Number one, what was the most memorable interview that you’ve ever done?

Paula Faris: Tom Hanks.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Who? Oh, that’s so good.

Paula Faris: Am I supposed to tell why or no, this lightning round.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I mean.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah, you have to follow that up with a yeah.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: You can’t just try Tom Hanks. Okay.

Paula Faris: Also Chris Hemsworth. Okay, for different Tom Hanks. So I had to interview him. When I was at GMA, I was interviewing him for the new Toy Story movie that was coming out. And Disney had arranged because Disney owns ABC and GMA, so they had arranged for the interview. It was going to be outside and in Toy Story Land at Disney World in Orlando. And it was pouring rain. I mean, we had some protection above us, but it was just it was like pouring and it wasn’t pouring at the beginning of the interview, but it started to pour during it. And he was a trooper. I mean, he started playing into it. He went into his role from Castaway, who’s catching water in his hands. He was just such a good sport about it. That will always be a really memorable interview. And also Chris Hemsworth, because I don’t stargaze I don’t you know that just celebrities don’t really do it for me. But he was at the GMA set one morning. I was anchoring for Robin Roberts and we were interviewing him about a new movie. And they always give anchors these little blue cards. If you ever see the anchors holding a card, the questions like they’re pre-approved, typically through their press people. And anyway, so I’m looking down at my question and I look up and he’s sitting right next to me and I look at look at him and I look into his eyes and I’m like, I totally lost my train of thought. I blanked. And I was like, I had to figure out, okay, where am I on the card? Which which one is? My question again, I totally blanked. So those two this isn’t lightning round. This is. We’ll speed it up.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Oh, that’s so good. Okay. What what is something that working mother should know? What’s one thing that you want working moms to know?

Paula Faris: I want them to know that they don’t have to carry it all. They don’t that don’t be a mommy martyr. It’s not weakness or failure to ask for help. Surround yourself with people that can do life with you. And by doing life, it’s helping each other out and carrying one another’s burdens. You don’t have to do it all. You don’t have to carry.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Oh, so can we on this show make it the official end of the, like, martyr brag situation?

Paula Faris: Yes please.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Like, the more miserable your life is, the more unhealthy you are, the better of a mom you are. No, I am just. I can’t. I can’t. So anyway, you heard it here first. We’re just done with the mommy martyr.

Paula Faris: We’re done, apple. I’m done with it.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: It’s over.

Paula Faris: And then we tackle….

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Yes, yes, yes. Okay. What is something that you want working fathers to know.

Paula Faris: That they need to fight for paternity leave? The more that they fight for paternity leave and the more they take the time that is given to them, the easier it’s going to be for working moms in the workplace. And I want them know that they’re invited to the conversation and that we cannot change the game for working moms without them by our side.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Amen can we have a whole separate episode? Yes. About the role of working dads. Yes. And fathers, because literally none of this changes. You know, I have young women ask me a lot like, what do I do today to prepare me for being a mom who has a vocation and a career? And literally what I answer them is like, if you choose to get married and have kids, the most critical decision that you will make is who you’re marrying and their beliefs in equality.

Paula Faris: 100%.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Because you can’t you literally can’t do it if your partner or you can’t do it and not be miserable. I would say I haven’t found anybody. If you’re not in a marriage where there is a willingness to truly evaluate and say like, we got to put all our cards on the table, we got to divvy this up, we got to figure this out. We’re going to build a beautiful family that’s connected and that’s rooted and that’s taken care of. And we’re pursuing things outside of the home and, you know, being called to create outside of our family, there has to be a level of partnership and a willingness for both parties, I think, to really do a deep dive in there. Like, what’s the story that we’ve been told and what’s the new story that we’re going to write for our family.

Paula Faris: Are we going to move forward in being on mission as a family? And then maybe when you do that episode, we can unpack the evil that we have done to men and told them that their only worth is in providing and bringing home the bacon. Okay. Next question.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Toxic. Okay. Clearly, Paula and I are not going to get hired for lightning rounds. Okay. This is like like a throw.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: This is so good, though. This is so good. I feel like we could probably make us into, like, a 12 part series.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: We should. Actually. Paula. I did just interview Justin Baldoni on my podcast.

Paula Faris: You did.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: It was so good, Liz. I just listened to it. It was phenomenal conversation.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: But it’s all about that. It’s all about let’s have a conversation about how the patriarchy is actually really damaging to men and boys too. It’s not just women and girls, and we can, especially as believers, we should be holding those two things that isn’t us versus them. And we have to acknowledge, like this narrative that has been deeply damaging to women and girls across the globe. It’s actually not serving men and boys.

Paula Faris: I guess not.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Anyway, very passionate about that. Okay. Tell us about what does it mean? What was it like to quit your dream job, to pursue your God given purpose? To sum that up in.

Paula Faris: A lightning round, it was conflicting, but peaceful. It was the right decision, but a hard decision. And I am at such peace now.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: So good. Tell us about what would be a key indicator for you, like a litmus test if you were like, okay, I don’t know if I’m finding my identity in my work and if my work is defining me. How do I know if that’s happening based off of your story, in your experience, how would you answer that?

Paula Faris: How do you introduce yourself to people and is it always associated with your job? Know, can you introduce yourself to someone without saying, I’m Liz and I do this because it’s always the second question. You ask someone, what’s your name and what do you do?

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Yeah.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Can I just say that that’s something that I think is really unique in the U.S. like in times overseas and traveling, my husband and I travel together and there was a season where he was the stay at home dad and I was traveling for my job a lot and we had this amazing time in Southern Africa and no one ever asked him, What do you do? It was, you know, what’s your name? And like, what are you into?

Paula Faris: Oh, I like that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Do you like hiking? Do you like, you know, are you a reader? What are you reading? And it was.

Paula Faris: And that wasn’t on a dating app. It wasn’t on a dating app. It was like like a conversation that, you have, these.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: It is like real life people just grabbing coffee together.

Paula Faris: I love that

Sue Alice Sauthoff: And it was so refreshing for both of us because in the States I find nobody asks me what I do. It’s, you know, hi to my husband, what’s your name? What do you do? And then it’s like, Oh, and who are you? And so to just be in this place where it was, who are you like as a person? What do you enjoy doing? What do you love? I felt like it just spoke to us at a different level of and we put so much in our identity here in the States and maybe that’s true in other places as well. But yeah, it was really good.

Paula Faris: Really it’s a being. It’s like who you’re created to be as opposed to what you were created to do or to separate things being and doing. That’s good. What are you into? That’s what I’m going to ask people now. Can I steal that from you Sue Alice.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: And just like the the, you know, women constantly being passed over and people not asking them that question. Very painful to feel like you’re invisible, like there’s an assumption that you’re not doing anything interesting or meaningful in the world outside of, you know, your family. But also, I have talked to stay at home dads or primary male primary caregivers. Similar thing, deeply painful that like this sense of when, you know, when you’re a stay at home mom. I think in our culture there is a level of like good that’s so good that so like good for you. That’s really important work, which I believe. And then when we find out a man is the primary caregiver, it’s like, Oh, did you get fired? Oh, how’s that working out? Like, there is a whole other slew of questions that I feel like is deeply dishonoring and deeply shaming to men that both men and women perpetuate. And that’s where I like want to call a little bit of I’m not sure if I’m allowed to say, but.

Paula Faris: I was just going.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: To say being edited out. But we can’t say that this is important work when one person does it, but when somebody else does it, it’s like, clearly, that must have been your last resort and you’re staying at home with your kids. Something bad must have happened. What’s wrong with.

Paula Faris: You? Because you’re not the breadwinner.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Wrong with you?

Paula Faris: Yeah. What’s wrong with you? Because you’re supposed to bring home the bacon. Because that’s the one thing that you were created to do that your one contribution.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: My husband wrestled with that so much. But can I tell you that our marriage is so much stronger because of that season? His relationship with our girls is strong like it never could have been otherwise. And looking back, it’s one of those things where, you know, this was the part of God’s plan. And it’s never a straight journey. It’s never the progression you think it’s going to take, like Paula saying. You thought you’re going to be in broadcasting forever. We always have these twists and turns, but when we can look back and recognize that season was really hard, but God was leading us to this place and look at all that He’s done through that. And I very sadly, I’m being told we have to wrap our time because we’ve come to the end.

Paula Faris: So we’re done with Lightning Round, which turned out to be a slow roll.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I Yeah, we’ll just pick it up on episode 11 when we do the 12 hour series about that. I would love to know three quick questions. So I’m creating a new lightning round, essentially Paula. I want to know about your kids. Tell us about your kids. Tell us then what God has been teaching you right now. We close every podcast with that question What is God teaching right now? Or What have you found in God’s Word that’s really stuck out to you recently and how can we be praying for you?

Paula Faris: So my kids are 14, 12 and eight. So rising ninth grader, seventh grader and third grader. So I’ll have high school, middle school and elementary school. My daughter’s the oldest and I have two boys who are savages and I love them all. That thing that God continues to teach me is that this is a chapter. I may not be an entrepreneur in my next chapter, but the verse that has helped me probably for the last 20 years helped me get into broadcasting when I was too scared. And it helped me get into this world of entrepreneurship and launch CARRY media to tell stories of the working moms so we can enact change. Is Joshua one nine in it’s have I not commanded you to be strong and courageous? Don’t be afraid and don’t be discouraged for the Lord. Your God is with you everywhere you go. And the most important aspect of that verse to me is at the very top, which is, have I not commanded you? And I really feel like God has commanded us as Christians to be strong and courageous, but he’s acknowledging we’re going to be scared and he’s acknowledging that we’re going to feel that fear. But he promises to be there on the other side of it. I don’t know how this chapter is going to work out. I don’t know if CARRY Media will be around in five years. I hope that it is, and I hope that it’s profitable. And I hope that more so that it’s impactful that we can change the game for working moms and we can make the workplace work for moms. That’s our slogan is Being a Working Mom Should Work. And your last question, how you can pray for me is just pray that I can have clarity and courage and really that I’m just Holy Spirit led. I just want to hold this in my hand. I just want to steward it well I realize it’s not mine. I’m just a steward of what God has put in my heart and in my hands. And I want to steward it really, really well. So just pray for that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Amen. Thank you. We definitely will tell our audience. We’re so glad you joined us for today’s conversation. You heard Liz and Paula talk a lot about community. And we hope that you can find it. We know it can be hard in different seasons and different places. We hope to make that easy for you as well. We offer Faith Driven Entrepreneur groups. That’s a community of 10 to 15 like minded entrepreneurs walking this journey with you. You can jump in for eight weeks. You can continue on meeting monthly. After that, go to our Web site groups.Faith Driven Entrepreneur.org to see if there’s a group meeting near you. Or maybe there’s an online group of mom, prenuers or other female founders or people in your affinity that you can connect with so that you’re not doing this alone. God’s not create us to be alone. And He wants us to be in community. So our prayer for you today, entrepreneurs, is that you find that community and we want to help make that happen.

Call to Create

Hosts Jessica Kim and Henry Kaestner share how they seized their divine moments. Discuss these 3 questions:

  1. What will it take for you to follow God’s call to create? How can you identify your divine moment? What can you do to seize upon it?

  2. How can you identify your Divine Moment? In what way are you adding value to creation through your business?

  3. What attribute of God can you rely on and dig deep into when that fear threatens to overwhelm you?

This guide is intended for personal reflection and to help facilitate a meaningful group discussion. Take a moment to watch the video and read over the guide before your group meeting. Be prepared with some personal examples to help encourage discussion. If helpful, before you meet, print out or email a copy of this guide to all those who will attend the meeting.

5 Ideas to Explore the Mark Further

There’s no limit to the ways you can explore the Marks of a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. What we provide below are five ideas we think might lead each one of us to an even greater understanding of our God-given call to create.

  1. Journal: Write down what your next faithful step will be. How can you face the unknown with confidence, not in yourself but in God?

  2. Interact: This month, take the time to face your fears of failure. Pray unceasingly. Ask God for his help and guidance rather than relying on your own strength. How can you embrace your faith in a God who loves you and wants the very best for you?

  3. Consider: During today’s video session, Jessica said that business plans are important. A clear vision is important. But no matter how much we try to close that gap between the known and the unknown, eventually we will need to take the leap. It will require faith every time, no matter how big of a jump it is. Are you ready? What’s holding you back?

  4. Act Differently: Try your best to work from a place of courage this month. This boldness comes from your faith in God and everything you believe him to be.

  5. Learn From Others: Visit faithdrivenentrepreneur.org to learn more or join the conversation by listening to our weekly Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.

Entrepreneurs can travel a lonely road. But you’re not alone. You’re sitting next to a group of like-minded business owners right now. One of the best ways to grow the Faith Driven Movement is to multiply your group.

Is someone in your group ready to raise his or her hand to start a Faith Driven Entrepreneur Group at a local church? Apply at faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/lead-a-group