— by Shae Bynes

We are both created and called to collaborate with one another in the Kingdom of God. We need the creativity, the shared resources, the accountability, the strengthening, and the pure Holy Spirit outpouring that is found when Christ-centered people. And we are called together on one accord with a shared purpose. 

I call this Kingdom collaboration—it’s the action of two or more people working together toward a common purpose for the glory of God and eternal impact in the marketplace.  

There are a variety of ways to collaborate with others and have a mutual contribution of resources (e.g. time, finances, thoughts/ideas, physical labor, people) to progress on a shared objective. 

The collaboration can be a formal partnership, joint venture, project, investment (long-term or short-term), or simply a collaboration by way of informal conversations, connections, referrals, and other contributions. 

Over the past decade, I’ve participated in Kingdom collaboration in all of these ways, and there are some key mindsets that made these collaborations fruitful by the power of God’s grace.

Mindset #1: “I have no agenda other than God’s agenda.”

Laying aside our personal agendas in order to pursue God’s agenda for collaboration allows the Holy Spirit to move freely within our relationships with others. Instead of coming to a collaboration with assumptions and presumptions over what has to take place, how it’s going to take place, and what the collaborative relationship is going to look like, we can allow the Holy Spirit to flow and move in our hearts, to move in others’ hearts, and to move us toward the direction that’s on the King’s heart. Prayer is a powerful fuel for keeping the main thing the main thing within a collaboration as it helps keep hearts knitted together in a spirit of unity. 

Mindset #2 “I own nothing.” 

In the Kingdom of God, we’re not an owner, we’re a steward (manager) of what God has entrusted to us. We’re also called to be distribution centers, maintaining a posture that is willing and able to both receive and give so that God can get things to us, and God can move things through us. 

Mindset #3: “I sow into the Kingdom, and I reap from the Kingdom”

Often collaborative partnerships are looked upon as quid pro quo arrangements. An important truth is that in a Kingdom collaboration, you are sowing into the Kingdom, and you will reap from the Kingdom. This means that it won’t always look like an equal contribution or exchange of resources. It also means there are times when you’ll be the largest giver/contributor in a particular collaboration, but you will receive from a completely different collaboration with other people. There is freedom and progress when we realize that God is the Source, and everyone and everything else is simply a resource.

Mindset #4: “I am abundantly supplied. There is more than enough. My God is limitless.” 

Maintaining an abundance mindset, with an understanding that God Himself IS Provision (Jehovah Jireh) keeps us from comparing ourselves to others. It also eliminates our desire to compete with others or fail to contribute to partnerships in the way the Holy Spirit is leading based on a fear of personal loss. We can truly allow God’s perfect love to cast out our fears of being taken advantage of.

Mindset #5: I have something to offer and something to learn. 

When we value and eagerly esteem the God-given gifts of others, we receive the goodness that comes from them. It’s important that we come open-minded and open-handed in our engagements with others. No matter what table God has blessed us to sit at (literally or metaphorically) or to create ourselves, we will experience His best. But only when we are confident in what we carry by His grace and humble enough to admit that we don’t have all the solutions.

Collaborations will not always come together perfectly in the way that you hope. And they won’t always yield the outcomes you hope for. But I’ve found that it’s worth it to invest in connecting authentically with others, to be intentional about cultivating collaborative relationships, and to remain open to God’s divine orchestration. 

God is moving powerfully through the body of Christ in the marketplace, and I truly believe that just as we’ve seen in the scripture, when people of like mind and like heart come together, with the spirit of unity, nothing is impossible for them.

Recent Articles

When you think of the accomplished basketball player, Jeremy Lin, you may not picture an entrepreneur right away. But after Linsanity took the world by storm, the young star had to think of himself as a brand as well as an athlete.

Fast forward to today and Jeremy is still balancing the two worlds, especially as he grows his company, JLINN LLC. 

Over the years, Jeremy saw the transformative power businesses can play in communities. Mix that with the desire he had to steward the success he has had as an athlete, and you’ve got a perfect recipe for an entrepreneur. 

Originally aired on our Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia show, Jeremy Lin and his business partner, Patricia Sun, talk about the Linsanity journey that made him a superstar, why he’s stepping into entrepreneurship, and how he and others can fight pride and stay rooted in Christ.

Episode Transcript

Rusty Rueff: Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. When Jeremy Lin rose to Linsanity fame in February of 2012, his name became associated with the fastest growing athlete brand in the world. But the buzzing fanfare of his success, well, it came with a cost. Jeremy experienced the immense pressure of having to measure up to Linsanity heroics. In this episode, Jeremy shares with the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia team how he has navigated the public scrutiny of being a prominent Christian and Asian-American professional basketball player. Patricia Sun, the CEO of JLIN LLC, also walks us through how the mission driven firm JLIN is impacting culture by mobilizing resources to remove barriers to equity for marginalized youth and communities. Let’s get to it.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia Podcast. Wen, good morning.

Wen Li Lim: So excited, good evening. Sorry, I just thought I was doing the welcome and I think we’re just really glad to be back together again to do this.

Henry Kaestner: So today we’ve got a really, really special guest. I think this is really the first time we’ve ever had a guest who really hits on every one of our ministries. Faith Driven Entrepreneur Asia, definitely Faith Driven Entrepreneur global. It’s an American guy that we’re talking to, Faith Driven Investor somebody who’s really thoughtful about where God has put them in the world. And I’m all kinds of fired up about our time today.

Wen Li Lim: Yeah. So without further ado, we have Jeremy and Patricia joining us today. Welcome to both of you.

Patricia Sun: Thank you for having us.

Wen Li Lim: So for those who don’t know, Jeremy is the NBA player known with the term Linsanity. And everybody knows that you are an athlete and prominent Asian-American, but also a Christ follower and someone who was deeply in the spotlight during the height of the NBA fame that you had. But today, we want to kind of talk about an identity of yours that perhaps isn’t as widely discussed and that is your position as an entrepreneur and an investor. So welcome and let’s kind of go into this. So tell us a bit about your journey since, you know, going prior and now you’re in China playing basketball and leading to the work that you’re doing as an entrepreneur as well.

Jeremy Lin: Yes. So, you know, I’m entering my 13th season as a professional basketball player and my first nine were in the NBA and I spent the majority of the time after in the CBA. So, you know, I need to say the acronyms, the NBA, the National Basketball Association, the CBA, the China Baseball Association. And so that’s where I spent the majority of my playing career. But I am currently 34 years old. You know, the average NBA player or professional basketball player really is you know, the average is around less than five years. And so, you know, with such a short career window, you’re always thinking about next steps, especially for me, going into my 13th year, it’s like, well, not only is it, what am I going to do after I retire, but it’s also having gone through the highs of being literally the most popular and Google search person on the planet to the lows of, you know, a lot of my failures and disappointments and crushed dreams that have been on full display for everybody to see amidst the highs and lows of my career. A big question has always been, well, what really is it all for? Like, what is it all for? What is my whole career was my whole life about? And that is a question that when you have the success and the failure and the scrutiny and the praise of, you know, I guess just the basketball community across the world, that is something that immediately comes to mind. And that’s why we’ve gone into being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur and what that looks like and what that means, which I guess would be a perfect segway to Patricia, who is the CEO of everything and the brains behind everything I do. But, you know, me and her have been on this journey along with a couple of others for over a decade now, and it’s been a lot of fun.

Wen Li Lim: So, yeah. Patricia, tell us a bit about yourself, the CEO of JLIN, but also your Jeremy’s sister in law. So working with family, that’s always interesting. But yeah, share a bit about your story, I think. I read that you were thinking of going to the health field when God led you to work with Jeremy and kind of what drew you to working together.

Patricia Sun: Yeah. So when Jeremy had his Linsanity moment, he was staying at our apartment in New York City. So I’m married to Jeremy’s older brother, Joshua, who was a dental student at the time. And so Jeremy was staying on our couch and we had sort of had front row seats to this overnight moment where we went from Jeremy being like, I don’t know if I’m going to have another practice to okay, everyone’s asking for something. I don’t know what to do. And he asked me to join him. He asked me to be his manager at the time. And at the time I was applying to public health school, I had really, in my mind, sort of a vision for what a meaningful career looked like. And I thought it meant direct service. I thought it meant working with people directly. And I had never crossed my mind that business or entrepreneurship in any way could be, I think, what it is now. It could be a meaningful kind of Christ driven career. But when Jeremy asked me to help, I think my gut instinct was like what I saw was somebody who really wanted to steward everything that was happening for good and who really didn’t know where to turn or who to trust. And that was like I just I deeply understood what I think Jeremy wanted to do with everything that he was given. And I saw just an opportunity to at least try to help him. And so, like he said, we’ve built this company together over the past ten years. And it’s a position that I personally never thought I would be in. But God has been extremely faithful to both of us. It’s been hard, like you said, a family business, but it’s also been a lot of fun.

Wen Li Lim: Yeah. Or you’re like long service leave in Australia we have like ten years and you’ve done this decade. So it’s a milestone and it’s amazing. Why does faith driven entrepreneurship look like for building this company? JLIN from either of you?

Patricia Sun: Yeah, I can start. I think Faith driven entrepreneurs shift for us meant that everything that Jeremy was approached with, whether it was business endorsements, whether it was media, whether it was all kind of the standard of being a celebrity at the time, we looked at it through the lens of what would it look like for God to be a part of this? What would it look like to do this differently? Because Jeremy really wasn’t in this position to try to be famous or to try to earn a lot of wealth. He just really loved basketball. And suddenly we got this opportunity to reimagine what could this look like if we use fame for good and for God? And I think some of the things with that would mean we were extremely thoughtful on which partnerships we undertook. We were thoughtful about how he talked to the media. We were thoughtful about what we stepped into and who we worked with and who we did it. You know, I had a lot of doubts about whether this could be like fame and celebrity and all that could be faith driven. But I think Jeremy has really stayed authentic to who he is. And one of our biggest successes is that ten years later, I feel that he’s still the same person. He still loves God. He still is true to who he is.

Wen Li Lim: Yeah. Thank you, Jeremy.

Jeremy Lin: Yeah. I mean, I think you know what I think about faith driven anything and especially Faith Driven Entrepreneur. I think the first thing I think about or what that looks like for me is who you are as a person. Integrity wise, character wise. I think that is something that, like I was just not ready for at a young, you know, when the Linsanity happened, I knew it was from God. I knew was a miracle. But I would say, I guess it’s like anything, right? Any time you take any new responsibility, it’s like you had to build that foundation first. And for me to be a faith driven anything, I think God really like tried me tested me and taught me a lot and is still teaching me a lot. And I think that’s probably one of the biggest things that I learned through a lot of, you know, sin and a lot of mistakes. But just to be faith driven means God is the North Star. He is not one of many priorities. He is the priority. He is the focus. He is what you live for, which you strive for, who you want to please. And he gave you that identity and that purpose. And I think the reason why I like being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur athlete is very difficult is because there’s so much pressure. Then there’s people whose livelihoods depend on what you do and whether you succeed. And there’s just a lot. It’s like such a strong magnetic pull that if you don’t have a foundation as a person, as a child of God first, like the magnetic pull of that pressure will suck you into a different world that like if you’re not careful, like it’s not that easy to get out of. And so when I think about what it means to be a Faith Driven Entrepreneur, really, it means you have to lay your foundation first and you really have to build who you are as a person. And from there then I think God will continue to lead you and guide you and grow you at the same time for sure. But that it all starts with integrity and character as who you are as a person.

Henry Kaestner: As I listen to this, I think on a bunch of things, it’s interesting. You’re absolutely a veteran as a professional basketball player, and yet you’re still also 34. And I think back ten years ago when you’re in your early twenties and you’ve got the pressures of being in Madison Square Garden, but then you’ve got the additional pressures of representing an entire billions of people. But then also been a faith driven entrepreneur. Can you talk a little bit about many entrepreneurs on this podcast have always dreamed of being an entrepreneur. That’s their NBA. There have been times, especially early on, where you thought, Gosh, I just want to be a basketball player. I don’t want to have the pressure of having to steward, this public persona or gosh, I guess I have an opportunity to build a brand, but I just want to play basketball. Can you just talk about the stresses or maybe it wasn’t so much the stress, but just as you saw that opportunity to build a brand and become an entrepreneur. Because theoretically, what you could have done is you could have just gone out there and just said, I’m just going to have Goldman Sachs run all my money. I’m just going to run my business on the court. How did you decide to kind of lean into what God had made you to be and make that into a business that was consistent with the brand you wanted? Did you ever go through this process and say, okay, I could go one or two ways. I can just focus on basketball and have somebody else run my money, not worry about the entrepreneurship part. Or I can kind of lean into there’s an opportunity to build a brand that counts and stands for something in addition to what I’m doing on the hardcourt.

Jeremy Lin: Yeah, it was definitely an evolution for sure. As an evolution, like Patricia had mentioned, like, you know, the sad part is like I graduated from college, I went straight to the NBA and I knew nothing about entrepreneurship. I had never sat in a cubicle. I didn’t even know that performance reviews were a thing. Like, I didn’t know anything about the business world. Like, I knew nothing. And all of a sudden, not only was I a basketball player, but I was also, you know, God had I felt like given me a large amount of wealth steward and I was a CEO, all of a company as my, like side hustle or like in my spare time, I guess because I had a full time job already, I mean, that I can’t even begin to express just how much heartache I have put Patricia and my team through because of my just inability to understand my lack of time, my lack of understanding of all of that. And I think to answer your question, like as I was going through this seem like this whirlwind baptism by fire type like thing, I think the first thing that really hit home that God really like made clear to me was like, this isn’t enough. Like being great at basketball is not enough for you to be fulfilled forever. It isn’t it. It just isn’t it. And I think that’s what I mean when I say you can get sucked into this, like almost this different world where it’s like you’re so focused on something. And then finally when you get it, which I got that time’s 100 during Linsanity, God really, really convicted me, like, in a strong way of this alone, this success is not enough. So then that obviously begs the question of, okay, well then what should I be pursuing? Because being successful on the court is not a sin. That’s not wrong. There’s probably more to it. And that’s where God was really challenging me, like, Hey, if you’re just building your own kingdom. You’re basically chasing the wind, like it’s completely meaningless. But if you can do things to really build my kingdom, to give me the glory and to point people to me like that was when I really felt something in my heart and in my soul. Like something different. Like, oh, this is my calling. Like, this is why I was created. And this is what I’m supposed to do. And that’s what led to. Okay, well, we have the platform, we have social media, we have the wealth, we have the brand, and we have the network. And we have all these opportunities to do things off the court. That whole thing that we had, that monster of a thing that I felt like God asked us to steward. We start to really ask tough questions of like, what would it look like if we really stewarded this well for God? And that was kind of, you know, a multi-year journey.

Henry Kaestner: Okay. That’s amazing. So you’re going through this process in your twenties. I think that most faith driven entrepreneurs don’t have the opportunity to do that that early. And it’s amazing that you came to understand that your satisfaction and joy shouldn’t come from just your athletic success, that he taught you that lesson, but that it needs to be about something bigger, about building his kingdom for his glory. So that’s really amazing. I mean, that’s a that’s an awesome a godsend. And I celebrate the fact that God protected you in that way because otherwise you could have gone off the rails. Do you get a sense of of because you’ve you’ve undoubtedly felt the success of scoring 38 against the Lakers on Madison Square Garden versus the feeling of success when you feel like you’re in line with God’s plan for your life. Can you describe the two different feelings or can or their feelings that can be compared in terms of a degree of satisfaction? I think that if you’re listening to podcasts, you’re endeavoring to understand the feeling of feeling God’s joy as you go out doing his work. But most of us have not felt that exhilaration and think that that moment of exhilaration is still possible for us. And it may be better than the sense of just being in line with God’s plan. How would you compare and contrast the two different types of feelings, if indeed they are different?

Jeremy Lin: Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. I think, you know, scoring 38 on the Lakers at MSG and any type of big game and those types of things. I would describe all of those as those are like highs. It’s like you go on a roller coaster or you if you go out with your friends or you have a great meal, like they’re like adrenaline rushes. Those are like highs where it’s like, okay, but I got to go chase the next one, I got to chase the next one. And it’s almost like it kind of ups your ceiling, right? Like if you start off, you know, flying economy, the first time you go to first class, it’s going to be like, oh, my goodness. But if you do every time, then, you know, at a certain point it’s going to become a little bit more normal. And then like, what is that next? And then if you go back to the economy, then it’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, the seats are so close, and, you know, where’s my mojito or whatever, right? Like. And I think that’s like, God was really humbling me with was that like, not only did I have Linsanity, but I also, like, lost it, all right? Like the starting position, the contract, the love of the fans of New York City and the endorsements and the NBA career and all these different things got slowly like stripped away. And I think through that, I had to really, like, chase something other than those highs. And, you know, I always contrast the moment when Linsanity, I was at my peak and I remember before a game I had such bad anxiety. I couldn’t sleep, I couldn’t eat. And I remember thinking to myself before we played the Chicago Bulls, you know, and Derrick Rose, who was in his MVP prime, I remember it being filled with so much anxiety now is like, you know, Linsanity and being the most popular person on the planet is not enough, then nothing is. And that contrast, that moment with about seven years later when I ruptured my patellar tendon and I can go on to this whole story about like why this opportunity with the Brooklyn Nets was something I had waited for, for years and years. And in the first game of the season, I ruptured my patellar tendon and I missed all 82 games of the season. But I talk about in those lows or when I share those stories or when I do different things, like being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur, when there are certain things that happen or you see certain, you know, kind of like when you’re describing what happened, you know, like the different things that you saw. Like when you’re a part of something like that is so much more deeply rooted. And it’s this feeling of like, this is what I’m meant to do. And it’s deeper. It’s not like, man, I just, you know, I went out to the club with my friends and like, that was a crazy night, and it’s just like, it’s very different. And so one I would describe as like an adrenaline rush or a high. And the other one I would say, is like this deep seated, deep rooted in and I think Scripture talks about it’s like there’s just peace. And that doesn’t mean that like, I mean, you could be filled with fear. You could be filled with like because of, you know, being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. You’re going to have a lot of stress. You’re going to a lot of uncertainty, like a ton of uncertainty. You’re going have pressure, you’re going to have doubts. But even amidst all of that, God can give you this peace and this like groundedness that is more stabilizing than you know, when you think you would have it all and be at your finest moments of success. And so I always tried to compare those two moments where on paper I was at my height, but in my heart I felt really empty. And on paper I was in a very low moment. But you know God is with me. I knew he wanted me there. I knew that I had done things the right way. I knew that he was proud of me. I knew I had his approval. And yet my heart was still very full.

Henry Kaestner: The peace that surpasses all understanding. I think that’s what we’re all after. And that’s awesome that you’ve captured that. So you’ve got a lot of people that around you. You’ve got a lot of basketball players that are around you. You’ve seen a lot of entrepreneurs as well, maybe more basketball players and entrepreneurs, but you’ve seen them. And I want to talk a little bit about the humility that comes across as you spend time with you. So I’m going to set up back in 2012 while Forbes magazine published an article saying that Jeremy Lin, you talking about you in terms of a brand as well here, which is kind of weird that Jeremy Lin was the fastest growing athlete brand in the world. It’s quite the praise. And I’m sure there were moments where it felt exciting and overwhelming. How can we as faith driven entrepreneurs stay humble when we start to reach those levels of success that we strive for?

Jeremy Lin: I’m so glad Patricia’s on this podcast as well because she is definitely one of the stabilizing. Like, she never cared what everyone else was feeding me and how big the ego got on the outside. She was always true to like, This is who I think you are or who you should be as a person. This is what I think it means to follow God. And she would call me out on a lot of stuff and you know, she would really challenge me, but I think multiple things for sure. But I think, you know, continuing to go back to the cross and the heart of the gospel message, like understanding that it doesn’t matter how successful you get. Like you still need a savior. And then I think it’s having people around you. That can kind of lead you back to that and kind of remind you of that. And, you know, I know that me and Patricia always talk about this because my brand is like, Jeremy is so humble. I want my son to be like Jeremy. And it’s like, wow, look at sheer humility. And it’s like everybody who’s close to me and they know this and I say this, but I guess people don’t take me seriously. It’s like the biggest thing I struggle with this pride. I mean, it’s always been there for me, like from a young age. My mom was the one who was on me from a young age. Like, you’re going to have a lifelong battle with pride. I don’t know if you have anything else to throw in there, to chime in there, and of how you seen it from a third party perspective.

Patricia Sun: I mean, I think to your credit, Jeremy, I feel like you have always tried to put people around you that would it. You know, I think we see this a lot with athletes. And as people gained notoriety, it’s hard to have people that will tell you what you don’t want to hear sometimes. And Jeremy was always been very open to that. So even as he struggles with pride, I think he was always very open. So if you see something like please call me out on it. And I think I mean, that’s really you know, what you guys were talking about was success, too. Like in 2012 when the brand was the biggest. I is not where we felt the most peace like we have really tried our best not to structure this company to be based on how are the metrics doing, how are the matter. But they don’t drive everything. So when a YouTube video doesn’t get the millions of views, like if we felt we were true to ourselves and we felt like this is Jeremy’s authentic story and we did what God wanted us to do, we always felt like that was okay. And I think that kind of helped us not be as reliant on how the world was gauging the success of JLIN LLC and see as a company, as a success of Jeremy Lin as a brand. And we had a different metric of success for ourselves, and I think that really helped us be a little bit more free from the worldly standards.

Henry Kaestner: So I’m picking up on two things here that are really, really important, I think, for our audience to hear. One is what’s coming across to me is Jeremy’s identity in Christ and what happened on the cross, understanding that when God sees Jeremy and Jeremy, tell me if I’m putting words in your mouth, please put out what I’ve picked up from your stories that when God sees you, he doesn’t see this NBA basketball star or this, you know, very successful proprietor of JLIN. He sees his son. And when you have your identity rooted in that, you’ve got a fighting chance. And then more pragmatically, you get people around you. And I think that God creates to be a community with others that can help us to see our blind spots. And what I just heard from Patricia there is that you’ve given her permission. So for us as faith driven entrepreneurs to give others that are close to us permission to call us out, then we’ve got a shot. But then also the other thing I heard from you is that it sounds like you still struggle with. I surely do. Right. So it’s an acknowledgment. It’s almost like, you know, an Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, like you start off every meeting and I actually haven’t been a meeting. I have all sorts problems. That’s not one of them. But, you know, it’s like I’m an alcoholic, like my name is Henry Kaestner and I have pride issues and so is acknowledging and being conscious of it would maybe be the third thing. Is that a fair kind of assessment?

Jeremy Lin: Yeah. No, that was perfect. I think you should answer the question for me instead. Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: Everybody wants to hear what Henry Kaestner has to say. No I just

Henry Kaestner: Just I’m summarizing. I just I mean, it’s a big deal. You know, we’ve had 200, that we’ve had 250 podcast episodes. We’ve had great stories from all sorts of different people. But I don’t know that we’ve really gotten in the pride, humility part as much as we could have. I don’t know that we’ve had a guest. It’s so clearly said, you know, for the identity thing, you know, it just really it’s what happened on the cross. I mean, without that. And then of course, it’s kind of a deep seated pleasure and that peace is surpasses all understanding. There’s just awesome lessons here. Wen back to you.

Wen Li Lim: Yeah. I guess another thing around the identity part, it’s really you as an Asian-American. And in interview with ESPN, you said you spent a lot of your life being uncomfortable in your own skin, especially given that everyone has an opinion, a narrative about who you are or who you should be. You know, you’ve been mistaken or you know, people have called you Yao Ming, mistaking you for the team trainer and even called you, you know, things like coronavirus. What does it mean for you, especially now, to be proud of your Asian heritage and the work that you’re doing around that?

Jeremy Lin: Yeah. And actually, can I just rewind really quick to to chime in on the identity part, because I think one thing that I really struggle with to this day and I spend a lot of time on this, is like when I think about the cross and getting back to my identity because Henry, when you’re talking, you reminded me like, oh, when God looks at me like he sees Jesus, like he sees like perfect holiness. And that concept is like, you know, you grow up in church, people say, like as an athlete or an entrepreneur or someone who is always striving, working and trying to be better and trying to earn work, prove basically to be a Faith Driven Entrepreneur like your first step is to rest is to rest in your grace and in your identity. And that’s like the exact opposite of anybody who’s trying grind to succeed and do anything. And that’s the exact opposite of everything that your industry is going to tell you as an entrepreneur, is that you got to go you got to go get it. You got to do it. You got to train, you got to work hard, you got to crush it on the court or crush it at work. And I think for me, it’s like, man, I’m so ingrained in this, like no days off, you know, just like always be better than you are yesterday mentality. And to really understand who you are in Christ in your identity as a Faith Driven Entrepreneur means like the first thing you do is rest and accept God’s grace. And that is like so hard for me. Like if I don’t get back to that every day, I have to remind myself and like meditate on that. I will not believe it, you know? I’ll be like, I got to go do this. I will even have to, like, strive to be whole again in God’s eyes, by doing my devotional reading, doing my reading. Like I will have to, like, structured stuff to do and accomplish and achieve to even make myself feel like I’m worthy of God’s love. That is just something that for me, I always learn. And that is also the essence of pride, thinking that I can go and get something that God has already given to me, or that I can go and almost be my own God in one sense of trying to achieve holiness or worthiness or approval. So that was my spill on that.

Henry Kaestner: But that’s a great spill. So but that begs the question, I can’t even remember what the question was that we asked you before either […], but that what you just said then begs the question about where does your motive come from? If you’re not earning something, you’re doing something out of rest. You know that no matter how hard you work, God will still see you as Jesus. Where does your motive come from?

Jeremy Lin: I think it comes from the love, right? Like God’s love for you will naturally change you. Like once you encounter God, you won’t be the same, but you don’t work to earn God’s love. You work because of God’s love. It’s like when I’m filled. If someone gives me like 100 iPhones for free, I’m not going to have 100 numbers. You know, I’m going to be like, Oh, you give them out. You know, like it’s like, whoa, I’ve been blessed with, like, I want to pass this on to other people. Like, it almost. It’s like so natural it comes out. It’s not like I have to and I struggle with this is literally why I’m in therapy. This is what Patricia has challenged me on day after day. And she has we could go through like an hour’s worth of how she has tried to instill this culture into our team and into our company of like, are we enjoying it? Are we enjoying what we’re doing? Are we resting in God’s grace? Like, are we truly sabath-ing? Are we honoring each other as individuals? And are we growing and like, are we really being who God created us to be before we do anything? And because you be and once you be, it’s like that doing comes naturally and freely and not out of shame. Not out of obligation is just something that flows. Out of you naturally. And I think that’s the joy of being a faith driven anything. Is that like when you have your identity deeply rooted in Christ, you live from abundance and not scarcity, you know? And that all tied to the question Wen, of being an Asian-American because, you know, growing up as a minority, it’s like everything is scarcity mindset, you know, it’s like, yeah, everything, everything is scarcity mindset, especially trying to be Asian in basketball or to try to start a startup business from scratch or to, you know, like everything is scarcity mindset and all of a sudden, you know, God is trying to help you live out of abundance. And it’s like, I don’t know, I don’t I don’t know how to balance it to be right.

Patricia Sun: Yeah. And I think in our first few years, like, there was so much pressure. And you know, Jeremy is saying that I instills in the culture was really because I struggle with it so much myself where there was this pressure of like, if we are the only Asian-Americans in this space, then we have to steward this completely and well, and we can’t rest because who else is going to do it? And it kind of breathed this control this like, you know, like God needs me to do this when really it was our privilege to be able to step into this work. And it’s taken a lot of years for us to stop being motivated purely on. I feel that God needs me here and more on like this is my joy. And because this is my joy and my invitation with God, it is also my joy, my invitation to rest when it’s time to rest. And it’s really hard because a lot of the good work that these faith driven entrepreneurs are doing, you are really passionate about seeing this come to fruition and you feel like you have to be there and you have to stay on and you have to grind to make it happen. And I think Jeremy and I learned firsthand what burnout felt like. You know, what the flip side of that was, and that really we’ve really hit rock bottom in different ways and burning out and realizing at the end of the day that God doesn’t need us for this work, but he allows us to be in it. And because of that, we can have it with more open hands. If he takes this platform away from us, that’s okay. Like, you know, but while we have it, it is our joy and motivation to work on it and to see fruit come from it.

Wen Li Lim: It’s really about operating. I mean, what I’m hearing operating out of love and not fear because I think as the Asian culture as well, there’s a lot of that underlying fear into so many things. You know, the fear of losing out. Yeah. I mean, over here in Singapore, there’s so many things about, you know, the term […]. I don’t know if you’ve heard it basically say this, you’re scared of losing […], is that you’re scared of dying. You’re literally scared of everything. But really, you know, even the platform about just being an Asian-American and being in that space is not about fear of losing that or not doing it, but it’s really out of the overpowering of love that you have for this community and that the love of God operating through you rather than fear driving it. Thank you for being so open with that. So what we usually do right now, so I’m just conscious of time as well is we kind of go into Rapid Fire. And Henry, I believe you’re going to take the Rapid Fire today. Do you want to explain it.

Henry Kaestner: I’d be honored to? I’d be honored to it. Okay. So just on the lighter side, and by the way, just as we bridge into that I picked up the motive being joy and gratitude. And that’s it’s really profound. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. Lighter side, Jeremy, what’s your go to music when you work out?

Jeremy Lin: Oh. Uh. Go to music when I work out. That’s tough. I change every day. I’m, like, the most moody. My trainer always makes fun of me. He’s like, I never know what you’re going to listen to. I’m like, I don’t know. It just depends on the day and the weather. I literally can’t. And sometimes it’s Chinese music, sometimes worship music, sometimes it’s hip hop, sometimes it’s jazz. Literally. I’m all over the place.

Henry Kaestner: But never seventies disco.

Jeremy Lin: That one. I’m not.

Patricia Sun: […].

Henry Kaestner: I tell you, man ABBA, you will throw your trainer, your trainer may just quit if you do ABBA. Okay. You’ve lived in a lot of cities in the past few years. Which one has the best food?

Jeremy Lin: Woooo I think you got to go with New York City as like the obvious. But I think to me, huge, huge, underrated food cities. Toronto has amazing food. If you really know where to go, Toronto is really, really up there.

Henry Kaestner: So do you remember one of those places in Toronto? So I go there and you say, If you know where to go, I’m like, I have no idea where to go. Do you remember one of those places in Toronto?

Jeremy Lin: Oh, yeah, I have a whole list. This is how much of a foodie I always have lists and food tours, and I read them and I read each dish. But anyways, there’s a great pizza spot called the sentence Pizza’s Detroit style pizza. And then there’s like, you know, a place called fisherman’s. It’s like, know deep fried lobster on a bed of French fries and you know, those are a couple of my go to is out there.

Henry Kaestner: Oh, that’s awesome. So I don’t know if this is on your list or not, but if you post basketball to Jeremy Lin food tours, I’m in. I’m in. Okay.

Jeremy Lin: Alright, I’m doing all right.

Henry Kaestner: Good. Let’s make it happen. All right? As an athlete, I’m sure you find lots of value in being coaching, coaching others. What’s the most encouraging thing that someone has said to you?

Jeremy Lin: The most encouraging thing that someone has said to me. I would say normally I don’t really listen to a lot of people. You know, as an athlete, everyone’s always kind of praising you and saying good stuff and it’s kind of in one ear and out the other. But there’s one time I got a letter from a fan, and the fan talked about how she was ready to quit on life and take her life. And that, you know, through watching a show that was I was on and then through learning more about my journey and different things like that, I get encourage her. And as she talked about where she was a year ago and where she was now, that’s another moment when I think like, oh, wow, like God is doing things beyond like he doesn’t need me, but he’s using me to do something very, very beyond what I thought would be done. And that was one of the most encouraging things and most humanizing things that I felt like, Wow, you know what? Fame and this platform that I didn’t always ask for, like wow God is doing special things.

Henry Kaestner: That is amazing.

Wen Li Lim: So we like to cap each episode off with just God’s word. And what is God speaking to you and teaching you right now? Is there a verse or a passage of Scripture that’s really stuck out to you recently?

Jeremy Lin: My recent one has been I am the Vine, you are the branches. If you abide or you remain in me, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing. That is been a big one for me and you know, honing in on the word abide or to be or to remain like just being with God, you will naturally bear fruit like it just happens. It’s not like I have to go bear the fruit myself or I have to be the source of life myself. I just need to abide.

Patricia Sun: And then mine would be second Corinthians 12 nine. My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Thinking a lot about this ten year journey. In the beginning when we really didn’t know what we were doing, that was the verse sustained us. We were like, This is not our strength, but God’s grace will sustain us. And it’s very full circle to be able to still say that today, but in a different way.

Henry Kaestner: Well, Patricia and Jeremy, this has been really special. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for encouraging so much to take away from this for a faith driven entrepreneur, and identity and motive and things we struggle with and the concept and importance of. I hope our audience picked up on the concept of rest. Jeremy talked about that and Sabbath. And thank you. Thank you for spending time with us.

Patricia Sun: Thank you.

Wen Li Lim: Thank you so much.

Jeremy Lin: Thanks for having us.

Alongside University of California-Berkeley teammates, former NFL running back and Baltimore Ravens Pro Bowler Justin Forsett created a sanitary wipe to help athletes on the go stay hygienic. 

Despite the challenges they faced as Black entrepreneurs, Justin and his co-founders encountered immense success, being featured on Shark Tank, Fox, CBS, and NBC, and landing partnerships with Target, Crunch Fitness, and Pharmaca. 

After rebranding to HustleClean, the founders devoted their company to doing more than selling products. They established a sports scholarship program to provide opportunities for underserved youth to play sports. Justin and his company also brought support and awareness to communities in need. 

He joins the show to share how his faith shapes his heart and pushes his hustle.

Episode Transcript

Rusty Rueff: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast from wherever you’re downloading us this week. Our guest today is Justin Forsett. Justin, well, he knows what it takes to hustle. The former NFL running back. And Baltimore Ravens Pro Bowler averaged 4.7 yards per carry in his nine year pro career, landing him on countless fantasy football rosters between 2009 and 2015. He also played for seven different NFL teams. But Justin knew he wanted to harness the power of hard work and strong teamwork off the field as well, alongside University of California Berkeley teammates Wale Forrester and Wendell Hunter. Justin created the shower pill, a sanitary wipe that helped athletes on the go stay hygienic, despite the odds being black male entrepreneurs. Justin and his co-founders encountered immense success being featured on Shark Tank, Fox, CBS and NBC and landing partnerships with Target and Crunch Fitness, along with others. Renamed Hustle Clean, the founders devoted their company to being more than just a brand. They established a sports scholarship program to provide opportunities for underserved youth to play sports. Justin and his company also brought support and awareness to communities in need. Responding to the Flint, Michigan, water crisis, Hurricane Harvey in Texas and Puerto Rico and the aftermath of Hurricane Maria. Justin joins us on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast today to share more about the faith he needed to shape his heart and to continue to drive his hustle. Let’s listen in.

Henry Kaestner: Awesome. Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I’m here, as always, with William and Rusty. Gentlemen, good morning. I see that you’re both wearing your college football colors, which is apropos for today’s guest.

Rusty Rueff: Yes. Yes, I’m sporting my Purdue boilermakers. Black and gold. Black and gold, in fact, coming to you from West Lafayette, Indiana. Where I am right now. Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: This first time we’ve ever broadcast is kind of like ESPN College GameDay, like where you’re actually there.

Rusty Rueff: I think it is. I think it is. It is like game day right outside my window. So it’s really great.

William Norvell: That sounds like a travel trip. We need to do pick a team. Go

Henry Kaestner: Road trip. So we’re really into college football. And today, of course, we have Justin Forsett with us. And Justin played his college ball at the University of California. So he’s a bearer guy, which we think is really, really cool. And as I was saying beforehand, I’m a Baltimore on. I’m from Baltimore. I’m actually very proud to be from Baltimore. I’m poking fun at myself a little bit. But Charm City is the home of the Baltimore Ravens, where Justin was for quite some time and did an awesome job there. So, Justin, without further ado. Welcome to the program. Thank you for joining us.

Justin Forsett: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be on today.

Henry Kaestner: Absolutely. So you are a hero to many well beyond Baltimore. You’re a Faith Driven Entrepreneur and you have gotten out there and answered the call to go beyond football and get out there and innovate and create work with some partners, bringing a product to market. And there’s just a whole bunch of different angles that we can take this. But I’m hoping if you can just get started, give us a quick autobiographical flyover. A lot of people are going to know about your football career. Most people aren’t going to know where faith entered in. Maybe some lessons that you learned while you were in the NFL. Just want you to just give us a quick overview. But what we want to spend time on today, of course, is just really understanding your journey as a Faith Driven Entrepreneur and your reliance on God and what you’ve learned. And with all the talk about what’s going on with name, image and likeness, your particular perspective on that that might help guide us for those of us who are parents of college athletes. My son just made a commitment to be a college athlete, and you have this sense in perspective. I think this can be helpful for us as entrepreneurs, for us as parents of athletes, and then just for us as Christ followers, so but who are you? Where you come from?

Justin Forsett: Awesome. Well, I appreciate again the opportunity to chat with you guys. Today is truly a blessing. I grew up in a small town of 3000 people called Mulberry, Florida. It’s a little bit outside of Orlando, in Tampa, central Florida. Very humble beginnings. Not a lot of people make it out to accomplish their dreams and goals and aspirations in life. Normally, you leave high school, there’s a big grocery store called Publix that is headquartered in Lakeland, which is my neighboring city, which was the big city to us. Or you go in to this furniture, or we had a big phosphate mining industry where most of folks would go into for work and occupation. So that was kind of my upbringing. I grew up in a family. It was five of us. My mom and dad’s in the home. I was the middle of three boys, so I was a middle child and financially unstable early on. Bounced around from place to place. Never owned anything. I remember times when I had to take baths with bottled water. I remember running from the repo man parking our car down the street and walking home because we couldn’t afford to pay our car. No. And we couldn’t afford to lose our only form of transportation. I can recall doing my studies under candlelight, reading my R.L. Stine Goosebumps books under candlelight. If you remember the old series as a popular one for me as a child and at our lowest. Being homeless, living out of a motel at the edge of town. And I remember during that time, like as a 12 year old, I couldn’t control those things. Right. Those are things that I didn’t have much power over. But what I could control was how I thought about those bits of adversity that I faced. And I knew I wanted more for myself and I wanted more for my family and my future family. And I was determined not to allow those things to happen for my future family and my kids that I didn’t want them to deal with those things. So my love and passion for football came about when I saw a guy on Sunday named Barry Sanders. I was playing on a terrible team. My apologies to anybody that’s a Detroit line, fans out there, but I would just watch and I was fascinated with him because he was this guy small in stature like myself, and I watched him dip and dash through defenses. I would watch him electrify stadiums all across the country. And I was like, man, this is what I want to do. This is going to be my vehicle out. And I just work hard as I could. My dad was a preacher, so I have faith in me. I accepted Christ at an early age and my mom would always tell me, Hey son, faith without works is dead. So you can believe and have faith, but you’ve got to put in the work in the time. So I remember just going out and even though people were telling me, you’re too small, too short, too slow. That constant theme throughout my entire career, going all the way from Pop Warner, all the way to middle school to high school, I just get work and being disciplined, excelling at what I could control in life, have an extreme faith. And I ended up. Quick story as we talk about Notre Dame and Stanford, both institutions that I’ve not had a really good experience with in a number of ways. One, being an Cal bear. We just those are our rivals. And then I got a scholarship offer from Notre Dame at a high school after my senior year after no one wanted me. And then a week before signing, they told me they didn’t need me anymore, so, yeah.

Henry Kaestner: Oh that’s not cool

Justin Forsett: Yeah. It was it was not cool. But I remember as a 17 year old kid getting that news, going down into my basement, crying my eyes out like just like praying to God. Like I’m feeling like, you know, the prodigal son’s brother, right? I’m just like, God, I’m doing everything you asked of me. I’m doing the work. I’m going to Bible study. I’m reading my word every night. I’m praying to you. I have a relationship with you. But why is everyone else around me having all the blessings that I’m desiring God, like you have to show me something. And I remember the only thing I knew how to do as a kid and as a young kid of faith was opening my Bible. And that was the first time when I feel like I really experienced the presence of God in a really authentic way. I remember I flipped open my Bible and I just let it pop open. I was like, God you’ve got to show me something. I just flipped open. And the verse that I landed on when I just flipped it open, it was Proverbs 3:5-6, which says Trusting Lord God with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, acknowledging him in all your ways. And he’ll direct your path. And I felt right in that moment I could feel this warming sensation come over my body. I felt as if God was wrapping his arms around me and letting me know that it’s going to be okay. I just had this peace that nothing in my situation had changed at that moment, but I felt like God had a plan and a purpose and it was going to be fine. And He was reassure me of that. So a few months later, after college, signing day had happened. At the time that was in February, someone got hurt, at Cal and we sent out some tape there and end up going to UC Berkeley. They offered me a scholarship and you know, had a great time there. Play with guys like Aaron Rodgers, Marshawn Lynch and I were roommates and freshmen at the same time, met my wife and I end up going into the NFL for nine years and being a Pro Bowl running back for the Ravens. Is that a high level?

Henry Kaestner: So there’s a lot there. I love the fact that you grew up as a child of a preacher and and that you set to Jesus early. Then you made that faith your own. Sounds like when you were 17, you flew through pretty quickly the college and the NFL side of things. Can you just walk through just a little bit about that, about what you learned so you’re relying on God? Do you feel like you’ve been let down? And in you very much had been by Notre Dame, and yet you persevered. What are some of the things that you learned as a professional athlete that you think prepared you for this season that you’re in right now?

Justin Forsett: Wow. There’s a lot that I felt like being a professional athlete that really shaped and prepared me for this season of entrepreneurship and as a family man and father of five kids and a husband. But during that time, I just faced a lot of adversity and a lot of resistance throughout my career from college, even when I stepped on campus, it’s like, Man, what are you doing here? Like, you’re a two star recruit, you know, we’ve got another guy here that’s, you know, right up the street in Oakland named Marshawn Lynch, who’s the number one running back athlete in the country at the time. And he’s sort of a big deal and. They didn’t know if I would make it there and I just really off the field. Berkeley is a lot different than Florida or Texas, these places that I grew up in, and it really shaped my faith and who I was, my identity. I often hear most people it in a fake background. They say when kids go to college and they lose their faith. Right. And I really don’t believe that that is the case. I believe that kids go to college and they lose their parents faith. They never really owned it for themselves or had that really authentic relationship for themselves. So that’s what you see when that happens. And for me, it just really allowed me to understand why I believe what I believe going to an institution where they’re not, you know, promoting Jesus on every corner. It’s not in the Bible Belt. And as an athlete, it just really told me, one, I had to be a student of the game. I had to really understand and my responsibilities and the goals and work well with others. I had to be able to prepare well and manage my time well because there was no parents there watching over me. And that kind of helped propel me because it was so competitive both academically and athletically on the field. It really propelled me to really handle the NFL as I would go on and, you know, get drafted in the seventh round, pick 233 in 2008 for the Seattle Seahawks, you know, get cut, fired six times throughout my career, be demoted, face some injuries before even getting an opportunity. When I got to Baltimore at age 29, in the seventh year of my career, to really show who I knew I was all along, to be that Pro Bowl running back and get a big contract.

Henry Kaestner: So it was until your 29.

Justin Forsett: Yeah, 29.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah. Because it’s you know five yards carry type of stuff in. You had been just persevering all that time. I don’t think that I appreciated that you’re that deep into your career before you really finally get your moment.

Justin Forsett: Yeah now that you see that, the overnight success stories aren’t really overnight, right? It took me really 15 years. If you add up all the years of me from high school and college to really get that like acknowledgment among my peers until like that age, 29.15 years of doing the same things over and over again, just like being committed to the process, being disciplined and overcoming adversity. I see it all the time. Like, everybody wants a breakthrough, but nobody wants to be broken. But I feel like in those broken moments in life, like God is showing us and shaping us into the men and women that we need to become to really accept and that really to thrive in those moments and those opportunities that he seems our way to really elevate. So those were the moments like this, all those years of challenge and opposition, like just really using those things to fuel me, to make me better. And then, you know, at age 29, things start popping for me.

Henry Kaestner: So I had to just mention one thing because I’m just immature this way. But I’ve got to imagine that you coming from Florida were a better golf cart driver than Marshawn Lynch.

Justin Forsett: And it’s funny with that whole golf cart incident, because I was in the locker room at the time when that happened, but he is by the way but a golf cart driver than me because he did actually a really good job of steering that thing.

Henry Kaestner: He’s got more YouTube videos on his golf cart driving than pretty much anybody else has ever driven a golf cart. I’m going to hit it off to Rusty and William here in a second. But before we go there, I do want to ask you to just talk a little bit about being a student of the game. I think that that really applies for entrepreneurs. And I’m going to presume that you’re continue to be a student of the game. But during your long career, what did that really mean? What did it mean to be a student again? What did you learn as a pupil? Where did you learn as a student?

Justin Forsett: You have some really great mentors and great leaders around me to really help me and show me the way. And for me, being a student of the game is one is this. It’s doing everything you need to do, crossing every t, down, every eye, preparing yourself for a moment and for your opportunity so you can seize it. And I think it’s being more than ready because I think there’s a difference between being ready and being prepared. Being a student. The game is all about preparation, not readiness or not just readiness. I feel like being ready is just a state of emotion like we can be. It’s a heightened sense of awareness, right? We can be ready for something but not necessarily prepared for it. And I feel like preparing as a student, you have to be prepared. You have to do the work, you have to put the time in. You have to understand your space. You have to understand your role. You have to understand the goals of the team or the company that you’re in. So that’s what it meant to me. And I pride myself of just really understanding, always being thirsty and hungry for knowledge and being humble enough. I think that’s what being a part of it. Just always knowing that you can never stop growing like you don’t know everything, right? You can always be growing, always be learning. And that Pete Carroll used to tell us all the time, the three worst words you can ever say is, I got it. You never have it. Just keep working like this. There’s always something you can get better at. So that’s kind of what I think about.

William Norvell: Wow, that’s good. Thank you for walking through that. William here. I want to transition a little bit to how some of that story prepares you for your entrepreneurial journey that you’re on right now. I mean, so. You know, that’s obviously better than I do. But, you know, coming in as a black founder is not easy. Right. Just statistics are not in your favor again. Right. You chose another path where it’s just true, right? 1% of venture funding goes there. And there’s some great people. We’ve had guest on the podcast trying to address that and trying to fix that. But it is yet to be fixed. Right. I’m curious if you could share how those experiences, to your point, prepared you to go on this journey that you find yourself on now?

Justin Forsett: Man, that’s a great question because it’s something that I get asked a lot about. You know what’s harder? Entrepreneurship or, you know, being an NFL. And they’re both very hard. And I believe that the things that I got in football like, really helped me on the entrepreneur side because I deal with a lot of the same things, just like the work ethic, we talk about discipline and commitment and overcoming rejection. Like throughout my entire life people told me, Man, you’re not big enough, you’re not fast enough, you’re not strong enough, you’re not going to make it like do something else. And in entrepreneurship, you see those same thing, like whether it’s investors raising capital or partnerships or retailers, they like telling you why you won’t be successful. And I believe entrepreneurship is really difficult because, you know, unlike football, football can be very detrimental to the external. It can be very detrimental to your body, like physically damaging to your body and your just outer being. And entrepreneurship can be very detrimental to your inner being. Right? It is a wage of war daily on just like you’re problem solving constantly. People sending negative comments and criticisms your way. When you face rejection, you faced adversity, putting out fires left and right, and then it can be very lonely and isolating at the same time. So you see a lot of depression. We see a lot of anxiety, we see a lot of burnout. And we also just see divorce. We see, you know, high rates of there. And then we see identity issues because just like football, I you know, I was surprised as I transition from sport to entrepreneurship. And it’s like they always tell us man don’t find identity in sport because that’s something you do all your entire life. You know, I’ve been playing football since I was seven years old. So because at some point football is going to be in. We talk about NFL standing for not for long. At some point it’s going to end. So what do you do? Do you have a value based on your performance on a football field or identity in your job that’s going to leave you? No and same thing in entrepreneurship, we see and it’s even harder for me. Like this is something that you do every single day. It’s hard to turn off right. It’s 24 seven. Unlike football, there is no offseason, there is no built in day of rest if you don’t do it intentionally. It’s just a lot of decision making and a lot of people find their value based on, Oh, if I get this deal or if I raise this amount of money or whatever, if I hit these milestones of my P&L statements, look this way, and you see a lot of those same, you know, results of, again, divorce, depression, anxiety and stress that comes with this. So there’s a lot of things that I felt like football really prepared me for to really handle this. But also I felt like God use entrepreneurship to really shape and mold me into the man that he’s calling me to be, to dig deeper. And so I’m learning even new things on this side, even outside of what sports taught me.

William Norvell: Wow. You said so many good things in there. I want to double tap on a couple. You mentioned so many different roles we have in life. You know, my co-founder and I, when we started, we’re both married and the first thing we said, you know, if the business succeeds and our marriage fails, the business failed. Right. And we tried to hold each other accountable that through the first year and remind ourselves of that commitment we made. But it’s hard sometimes. And and then the second one, the identity just getting wrapped up. I’m curious if you you know, because you have such a unique experience, right, where you went into a career where you knew there was an ending point. Right. Running back. So, you know, whatever, 30, 32 like you just don’t play running back to your 45 years old, right? Until recently, no human played till they were 45 years old. But, you know, one guy’s doing it. I’m curious what anchors that identity for you? How do you anchor yourself? And maybe it’s not daily. Maybe it is if it is or weekly or what do you put around you both from a faith perspective or from a community perspective that helps remind you who you are first and how much more of that matters compared to who you are as an entrepreneur?

Justin Forsett: Oh, man, great question. Again, I think for me it’s been intentional with my time by the most valuable thing that we have is time. And if you allow entrepreneurship to control your life, it will gladly do that. It will suck up and drain up every single ounce of you. Right? But we have these other roles. Like I didn’t start off in my career as an athlete. I didn’t just want to be an All-Pro football player, I want to be all pro businessman, I want to be all pro husband, I want to be all pro father. And that’s the same to this day, I feel like I’m anchored in my faith, my purpose in calling, like I feel like I’m called to encourage and inspire. Right. At one point that was in football, but now it’s in entrepreneurship. And I’m intentional about getting up in the morning, working out, praying, reading, doing devotions every single morning, because I do think it is a fight daily that I specifically, personally I have to fight because I’m one of these individuals that I also believe there has to be a little bit of obsessiveness into something that you’re doing. Like I don’t believe in the traditional form of balance, so I don’t think I can give the same a lot of time to every single role that I have as a man, as a father husband, entrepreneurship. But what I can do is that same level of vigor and energy like I have to give that that time, that quality time. To me, being as a husband, as a father, as in my entrepreneur, in my business. So I have to be intentional about that and carving that out. So I’m grounded and rooted by like, man, I got five kids all and I and I have a wife who’ve been blessed and been married for 12 years now. I want to like you like if I sell this business $4 billion and our business fails like that is not success to me. Some entrepreneurs that is okay, but not for me. That’s not the value, a metric or measurement of success for me. So I’m very conscious of that because my life is crazy at the moment is I need to be rooted in grounded every single day because I can be pulled by the current of life, you know, in any given time. So prayer reading, accountability partners. You know, I lead a life group here at my church, so I’m always involved in doing something that’s going to anchor me back to like, okay, I just keep the main thing. The main thing.

Rusty Rueff: It’s great. I want to go into your entrepreneurial journey, but I I’d be remiss. I mean, I don’t think we get to have a guest who probably can give us a perspective like you’re going to be able to because you just talked about identity and you talked about, you know, how hard you worked and you got to the NFL. So what should we think of this whole name, image and likeness thing and the transfer portal? You know, you saw name, image and likeness. When you showed up in the NFL and you start to pave there, what should we think about, you know, 18 year olds who are now facing this? And what’s your prognostication of where this is going to go?

Justin Forsett: Right now? It is the wild, wild west. When you talk about name, image and likeness. And, you know, there is still trying to figure things out. I like the fact that guys can get paid for their name, image and likeness. Right. Because, again, a lot of the athletes, you know where the colleges are going to make money off of the players. You know, most of them are going to go pro at something or at least in their sport, they’re going to go for something else. And then there’s a realistic possibility that some of these folks may get some injuries that may not allow them to, you know, be fully healthy for the rest of their lives. They may be battling something that for their entire lives. Right. Whether it’s a knee, or, back, whatever it may be, that they’re going to have to battle and now they have some type of form of conversation that they can fall back on. What I feel for me, because as a brand, as I look at it and I’m as a former athlete, I think the capital is not enough. I think that we have to do a better job of preparing and equipping and changing the mindset of these athletes, you know, not just putting money in their pockets and, you know, educating them, of course, on like financial literacy now, because now they’re going to pay taxes and do all those things. And this is something that is important to understand. But like knowing the fact that less than, you know, 1% will go pro less talk about the NFL, less than 1% will go to the NFL. Like how can we equip them and shape them so or at least give them the tools necessary to allow them to thrive. And when sport is done, when it leaves them and it could be four years after. So how I look at, NIL now as a brand as I we’re working right now with our school and trying to provide this platform on a program where they’re going to get on the job training. They’re going to be able to learn from entrepreneurs. They’re going to be able to jump on a salesforce with Hustle, Clean our business. They’re going to get paid for their name, image and likeness, but they’re going to get the tools necessary to thrive after sport. And they’re going to get those, like, foundational, like, okay, how we turn a profit and, you know, margin, gross margin, what that is talk about EBIT. But we’re going to talk about how do you save I’m going to talk about how do you build brands and how do you sell them? The importance of like just understanding, you know, this landscape in this marketplace that we’re going outside of sport and how their skills translate to this and really well. So that’s kind of how we think about the NIL and what we’re looking at doing it.

Rusty Rueff: Yeah, now it’s good. And, you know, add on the fact that you’re trying to teach delayed gratification to anybody. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s going to be. It’s just a little tough, I think. So you’ve got a great entrepreneurial story because you saw a need in the marketplace that you were experiencing personally. You went. And chose some co-founders. You launched a venture. You actually got a chance to launch that venture and try to get a deal on Shark Tank. I mean, you’ve walked through a lot in your entrepreneurial journey. You could do founder 101 for us right now, you know. What did you see? What was the opportunity? How did you pick those two co-founders? And then what have been the learnings now from going from Shower Pill to Hustle Clean as it’s now named?

Justin Forsett: Man, we got we got more time on the clock. It is there’s a lot to unpack there.

Rusty Rueff: Two minutes offence?

Justin Forsett: Okay, we can run that. So one Hustle Clean is a mission driven self-care brand for the act of lifestyle. So what we are essentially is a line of restorative self-care products to help every athlete, fitness enthusiast, adventure with hygiene, wellness and recovery with the big goal to eliminate toxic hustle. We saw a need play mistake within our space. As athletes, we were always told like to produce results at any cost. Right. We were told that, you know, to run your body in the ground as long as you produce and do your job is fine. But what we would see is, like we talked about early in entrepreneurship, we will see from that anxiety, depression and burnout, hygiene issues because we’re time poor individuals. And we were we had a demanding schedule and there are a lot of demands placed on us. And when it came to self-care, personal care, there was nothing within the space. We saw Gatorade for hydration, we saw muscle milk for supplementation. We saw Nike, under armor, Adidas, you know, what have you for apparel, but nothing when it came to self-care, the closest thing that we had self-care, personal care was a hot tub and cold tub. And that is nice to have within a locker room work, but it only touches the surface. So we saw that there was things that we could provide that resonate with our consumer and with this group of people in this community that we understand well and provide them, you know, some really good tools that allowed them to hustle healthier, if you will. And we started with hygiene because we all sweat. We’re all on the go. And once you address this moment when a shower is optimum or not possible, so we created this disposable washcloth and antibacterial towel that they remove sweat, dirt and body odor and just put it on the marketplace and grew. And it started with two partners of my college teammates that we knew each other from college, and we’re always coming together in the offseason to work out. When I was in the NFL and one was in the firefighter services and the other was an EMT. So we started this brand course and grew it essentially off Amazon and then started going into brick and mortar retailers like Target, Macy’s, Kohl’s, REI, Myers now and it’s been a long journey of just like a lot of rejection, a lot of adversity, even internally like. So now it’s two of us that are founders within the company now. And we had a buyout situation with our third founder. And even in that, just like, you know, God has been faithful to us and we’ve been learning and growing, you know, again, going on places like Shark Tank, bring awareness to the brand, you know, unlike any other level that we’ve had and just see an inflection point. It’s like, man, every time people kind of count us out, this is a constant theme of like, don’t think, oh, man, this is too bad, is not going to go anywhere. You know, God is faithful. So yeah, that’s kind of that, at least a high level of it.

Rusty Rueff: That’s cool. That’s great. Can you dig a little bit more into if you feel comfortable talking about, you know, working with your co-founders and going from 3 to 2 because that’s not an uncommon phenomena.

Justin Forsett: Yeah. Yeah. And it was probably the hardest thing that I’ve dealt with in business at least one of the hardest thing because no day is the same and there’s always things coming up. But that was because it was a personal level. And you talk about, you know, having a relationship with three people in life happens. And then, you know, at some point, you know, you have your requirements and things that you have to do for your family and people kind of just grow apart of just like I got to take care of my niece. And the business is not necessarily that I’m one which we get. We understand that. And so we got to that point where it’s like, okay, we’re going to have to make a decision. And we understand like what the core strengths and capabilities of the company were and what the team was and how we were. And we had to make a change. And, you know, we got through it. It was hard, it was tough. And so a lot of emotion tied to that. But I feel like all of that really helped us move, then propel the business even faster and more efficiently now and for all parties involved. But I would be lying to you to say that it was a it was smoother, it was easy to go through that process because I’m a person that loves I love people and I build relationships and we have relationships with that, with our third co-founder as well to this day. But it was very difficult. You know, I think the issues were I think that we see especially in the startups, that people that have companies and have partners, you have this term. Patrick Lencioni was the author of a book called Advantage and The Five Dysfunctions team is really great. He had this concept called artificial harmony, right? And I believe that when you start companies with people that you are friends with or family with, you can have this concept of unofficial harmony where you are afraid or you’re not willing to have healthy conflict and dialog because you’re afraid to, you know, step on toes. And you just it was just something that we experienced early on and we felt like, okay, we have to fix this issue. And I believe that over time that was something that we grew and we got better. We got better even to this day. Like, you know, everything is open now. Nothing’s personal it is just business. And we do it with love and kindness as we can. But that was something that relationship component with us from moving from 3 to 2, it was difficult, but it was the best thing for us.

Rusty Rueff: I know two of you share the same faith. That all three of you.

Justin Forsett: Yeah. Yeah, we did. We did.

Rusty Rueff: Oh, okay. Cool. That’s cool. That’s cool. Now and you and you started is it with the current co-founder that you still have or with the one who left that you started your founders church partners?

Justin Forsett: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was all three of us. We’re all together. We all started at the same time. And then we had the one that left and then the co-founder that you see Wale, who’s on the Founders Church podcast with me. He was a groom’s man in my wedding. We’ve been very close since day one, so there’s a lot of trust and love with that partnership.

Rusty Rueff: That’s awesome. Of course, we love podcasts, so, you know, this is your chance. Tell us a little bit about Founders Church podcast, because as I understand it, it’s a safe haven for people to talk about and for you guys to talk about things that are really actionable in a community. And so.

Justin Forsett: Yeah, yeah.

Rusty Rueff: A little bit of that.

Justin Forsett: Yeah, you did a great job. No. Yeah. So we feel like our podcast, we wanted to encourage and power and equip entrepreneurs with the space to let them know that they’re not alone, give them some success stories, but also some lessons and some losses that we’ve experienced. And some entrepreneurs that we bring on that they experiencing firsthand just like, it’s okay not to have it all together knowing that you’re not alone and encouraging, but keep going and keep pushing. And that’s kind of where it was birthed. And it was like we saw like a lot of minorities having issues within the space. Like we talked about early. We saw just generally like the identity crisis within entrepreneurship that we wanted to address the loneliness, feeling in entrepreneurship that we just wanted to talk about, have more open dialog and discussion. And we also need to share our faith too in the platform.

Henry Kaestner: Rusty What do you think about you and I doing like a package deal for name, image and likeness for like the middle aged runner crowd? I mean, I can say charity. I think your tagline is like, shower to the people, right?

Justin Forsett: That’s a campaign that we have.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, yeah, shower to the people. We’re going to go ahead. And we like to close out our time together by going through a lightning round. These are going to be simple questions. I’m going to do a couple. William’s going to do a bunch Rusty will jump in. Rusty’s got some and they’re fun. I think they’re fun, but you can’t take more than 20 seconds to answer each one. Okay, so there’s a rules. And I don’t know that you’re.

William Norvell: You don’t want to know what happens after 20 seconds. Just don’t test it.

Henry Kaestner: This is a great distinction for you to know that you can never be prepared for this, but you can be ready. All right. All right. So I’m to start off, first one is a new favorite question I like to ask is, what’s your favorite charity or mission that you like to give to and why quickly?

Justin Forsett: Um, there’s a number that we do. I would say we have a charity. It’s called Free Play. It’s our initiative and charity to give back to you sports athletes that have been priced out. So whether it’s like if you want to participate in the sport, we provide equipment, we provide registration fee, we provide travel. If you’re going out on events, you want to go on a hiking, camping experience. We kind of foot the bill there because costs is going to skyrocketed for the industry.

Henry Kaestner: Yes, it does. The youth sports vortex, I can speak from experience. Okay. Number two, thank you for that as free play. So everybody should have free play and I hope everybody goes ahead and looks at the hustle white. I’m going to get some. That’s my commitment. Okay. Number two, you spend a lot of time in Baltimore. Where is the best crab cake? And there is a right answer to this and a lot of wrong answers. So the pressure’s on.

Justin Forsett: It’s actually in Annapolis and I’m going to go the boathouse in Annapolis.

Henry Kaestner: So I love the boathouse. The boathouse is good. I would tell you that. I don’t think the boathouse is as good as chicken roost if you want to do Annapolis. Okay, I’m with you on Annapolis. The chicken roost. Crab cakes. Outstanding. Thinking about Baltimore, though. Have you ever been to Faidley?

Justin Forsett: I have not.

Henry Kaestner: Oh, man. Faidley in Lexington Market was unbelievably good. And where there’s cocoa, there’s there’s a whole bunch of stuff. But for those of you that are coming through Baltimore, do not find yourself just going to just kind of the the chains Phillip seafood houses once was a thing but it isn’t anymore. Okay all right. So Boat House is also just a great place to hang out. Annapolis is awesome. Okay, on you guys.

William Norvell: So so for our listening audience, Justin gets 20 seconds, but Henry can talk for a minute about crab cakes.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, I know. That wasn’t fair.

William Norvell: So that’s that that’s a that’s a host flex, right that if I’ve ever seen one. Alright Justin we are going to bring some fun if you have one most memorable moment or NFL game that stands out to you.

Justin Forsett: Running through the tunnel at pro bowl in 2014, 2015 season in Scottsdale, Arizona.

William Norvell: Oh, that’s good. That’s good. What’s next for Hustle Clean and how maybe could our audience participate in that? Is there a way we can help out?

Justin Forsett: Oh, may yeah just support man? If you go on our website, you’ll see us in Target or any of our locations. REI, Myers’ as you know buy the product support us that way. Follow us on Instagram, tiktok what have you at hustle clean we’re planning on you know again what is being a brand that’s trying to push forward this concept of like okay we can hustle in a really healthy way and we’re trying to eliminate the toxic hustle that we see within the culture. So just trying to be a little small part of it.

William Norvell: Amen and last that I’ve got for now. If you had one piece of advice for an entrepreneur starting the journey or in the midst of the journey. What comes to mind?.

Justin Forsett: I would say. Busyness doesn’t mean production a lot of times is entrepreneurs and even myself, you just get caught up in trying to do a lot of things. And the art of entrepreneurship is that unlike football, if you work really hard, you have a lot of success. Like if you work, I’ll work the other men. Usually you’ll have a lot of the success. But entrepreneurship, you can work hard and not see a benefit of the work that you put in, but you got to learn how to work hard and the right things. So you’re doing a lot of motion. Doing an activity doesn’t mean success. You got to be making sure that you’re doing the right things and spending your time wisely. So that’s my encouragement.

Rusty Rueff: All right. I’ve got two. And then we’ve got to turn it back over to William to bring us to close. All right. So the play the play is yours. The ball’s coming to you, you know, and you look across the line of scrimmage. What’s the linebacker that’s over there that you look at and go, Ooh, he made me nervous.

Justin Forsett: Hmm. Well, no one ever made me nervous.

Rusty Rueff: I like that.

Justin Forsett: Uhm tough linebackers that I faced. I would say Patrick Willis was one, just a freak of nature. And as always, when I think about not necessarily I got a ball in my hand because I wasn’t worried about getting hit. I was more about pass protection and making sure protecting the quarterback because a lot of guys thought because I was on the smaller side that they could just run through me, but that was the easiest protection for me. So if you run full speed from one end to other, A to B and you think, going to run over me is not going to happen because low pad wins and I was pretty strong. So it was more about those guys that were super athletic and get I can move around, be quick with me. That was tough. So Patrick Willis had a combination of speed and size.

Rusty Rueff: All right. And in my last one. So which would you prefer? Another Shark Tank presentation or fourth and one? With a TD opportunity.

Justin Forsett: Oh, another shark tank opportunity. Fourth and one right now. I would say, you know, football is great, but, you know, my knees and my back, you know, and I’m not trying to guys get bigger and faster now. So I’m just like, I don’t want to take another shot. I’m over getting hit by 300 pound on Sunday. So I would definitely say Shark Tank.

Rusty Rueff: All right. Good. Well, it also says you’ve moved on. Yes. Which is a good thing. That’s a good thing. All right, William, all yours. Thank you.

William Norvell: Justin, this has been such a gift to have you with us and share in so much wisdom with us. Just thankful for your story and thankful that you take the time to share with us and our audience. What we love to do at the end is just invite you to share a piece of God’s word that maybe you’re meditating on, maybe something you read this morning in one of your devotions, maybe something you’ve been meditating on for months or even years. But we just love to always recognize how God’s word is always moving and always encouraging and just invite you to share something with our audience that’s been meaningful to you.

Justin Forsett: Yeah. I would say. Do not grow weary in doing good works for in due season. You will reap the harvest if you do not give up that’s Galatians 6:9. Especially for the folks that will be listening here on this podcast. Like it is hard out there right it is this very difficult and challenging environment where there is, you know, economic issues that we are seeing, political issues, societal issues that we see, it can be very difficult, you know, to try to lead and drive a business. And let’s talk about this other day to lead a family, you know, to be the husband and mother and all these other responsibilities along with running a business it can be very difficult. But I just want to encourage and like not to grow weary and doing those good works that you’re doing like stay the course because God is faithful, even though where we will feel like times that we want to give up or it seems like it’s overwhelming at times like by God does not have those feelings right? Our strength comes from Him and I want us to lean into that, like knowing that, you know, go back to Romans 8:28, to all things, work together for the good of those that love the Lord. And are called according to his purpose, like even at the challenging moments, is working for your good right. And so you have to understand and know that every day, like God is just shaping you and molding you into the man and woman that you have to become within this business in order to reach the next level. So, yes, stay the course, keep fighting, excel at what you can control, but at the end of the day, you can’t give up.

Henry Kaestner: It’s good word. Justin I’m grateful for you, your time, your story, your faithfulness. And I’m actually also really grateful for you, given some props to Patrick Willis, who is a [….] guys at 49 ers and I hadn’t thought we’d end the podcast this way. I don’t think anybody on this team did. But Patrick is a Christian and has a prayer and he talks about his faith and he says, and I think that this is a good thing to leave on a good note for us as Faith driven entrepreneurs lead on. And it’s as follows No matter the outcome of a game, my number one goal is to glorify God. I always pray, Lord, I don’t know what today’s game is going to be like, but I pray that you blessed me to go out here and play for you. Be a soldier for your army. Go out here and lead this team the way you want me to lead it. And if we can take that on as football players or athletes. Yes, but as you pointed out, that’s a season. Athletics is a season. But getting out there and leaning into our vocation and innovating, creating and serving the community and coming up with redemptive products and services as you have with Hustle Clean, that’s something we can do. And it’s also an acknowledgment that there is a battle, there is an army, there is a real war that’s going on. It’s not of flesh and blood. But if we go in with the full armor of God into that battle, we got a chance, at least in knowing the God of the universe. So, Justin, you’ve helped us do that today. Thank you for that. And gosh, it would be great to get together and get. Yeah. Buy you a Faidley’s crab cake. Yeah, I’m getting out there. I’m buying my hustle clean. Thanks for being with us now.

Justin Forsett: Thank you so much. I had a great time.

Are you an entrepreneur in Denver? Then you need to join one of our entrepreneur networking groups. When you join (joining is free), you’ll discover

• Relationships and mentorship

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At Faith Driven Entrepreneur, we emphasize real relationships and conversation. We’re not just about exchanging contact info with strangers. We’re passionate about creating strong entrepreneur ecosystems through business networking.

For eight weeks, you’ll meet regularly with other professionals to discuss faith, purpose, and business. Entrepreneurs who feel that they’ve plateaued are always refreshed by the group’s thoughtful content. New business owners can rise above the challenges of launching their first product.

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A Summary of Our Denver Business Networking Groups

MBAs hardly prepare you for starting a business. And forget MBAs, most entrepreneurs haven’t gone to business school at all. With the internet and easily accessible funding, inspired leaders are picking up the mantle and saying, “I’m going to create the business I’ve always dreamed of.” But entrepreneurship is hard. 

Entrepreneurship is lonely. 

Entrepreneurship is stressful.

Entrepreneurship is incredibly rewarding.

We need a space where we can engage the hard parts of running a business. And that’s what we do in Faith Driven Entrepreneur business groups. We honestly discuss the highs and lows of creating businesses. Right here in the Columbus business community.

We’ll ask meaningful questions. You’re not going to be fed cut-and-paste answers you could Google on your own. Instead, you’ll hear how real entrepreneurs scaled their businesses sustainably, how CEOs have balanced time at work with time with family, and how founders are wrestling with their sense of purpose in life. Yes, wrestling in the present. Because no one has all of life completely figured out.

We encourage you to join one of our Denver CEO and entrepreneur groups. 

3 Benefits of Attending a Denver Faith Driven Entrepreneur Group

• Meet other business professionals in Denver

  From tech startups to manufacturing distribution, there’s always something to learn from your peers. You’ll be surprised how many people share the same values as you do. And after the group, you’re free to continue building relationships at your own pace.

• Engage topics that really matter to you

  It’s one thing to exchange business cards with a potential client. But Faith Driven groups go much further than that. You’ll be able to ask honest questions and get honest opinions in return. What do we do when our spouses don’t understand the stress of entrepreneurship? What do we do when we feel like God isn’t answering our prayers regarding business? Where else do you get to ask questions like these?

• Jump into our library of entrepreneur resources.

  During and after your group, you’ll have access to hundreds of relevant videos, podcasts, and blog posts. Some of the world’s most successful entrepreneurs have shared their wisdom on our platform. Have a question about living life as a faith driven entrepreneur? Chances are we have a resource for that.

How is a Denver Business Group Structured?

• Sign up for an 8-week course

  CEOs and business leaders who are just joining Faith Driven Entrepreneur will join a  Foundation Group. Foundation groups meet for eight weeks and are usually led by another business owner in the community. 

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  We intentionally set group sizes at 10-15. We find that this number of participants leads to the best conversations. Everyone has a chance to speak without any one person feeling like they need to carry the conversation. 

• Watch and discuss a short video

  Faith Driven Entreprneur primes conversation by introducing each session with a 20-minute video. Our team of professional videographers, writers, and editors have produced excellent clips featuring entrepreneurs, authors, and pastors. You’re sure to learn something new from each installation. Explore the video series here. 

Are There Fees for Our Denver Business Networking Group?

No, there is no registration/membership fee for our groups.  

Our organization is generously founded by donors and partners. Our mission is to impact over a million entrepreneurs across the globe. From Africa to Asia, we’re encouraging deep conversations among business professionals.

A Brief Overview of Doing Business in Denver

Denver is the largest city on the Colorado front range and is a hotbed for entrepreneurship and innovation. It boasts many companies in the consumer, government, and software industries. Despite high cost of living, Denver still attracts some of the nation’s brightest young entrepreneurs who can rely on established businesses and mentorship to make their dreams a reality.

Click here to learn more about the Denver Small Business Development Center.

This guide is intended for personal reflection and to help facilitate a meaningful group discussion. Take a moment to watch the video and read over the guide before your group meeting. Be prepared with some personal examples to help encourage discussion. If helpful, before you meet, print out or email a copy of this guide to all those who will attend the meeting.

Being a cheerful giver as God calls us to be doesn’t just happen. We have to be diligent about pursuing this kind of generosity. And yet that pursuit, just as much as giving itself, is what brings us joy. Because we are no longer striving to determine the perfect algorithm of what to give, how much to give, and who we give to. Instead, we’re pursuing God’s heart. When we do that, he leads and guides us.

Often we come at generosity backwards. We promise God and ourselves that we’ll be more giving once we have more to give. Instead, consider establishing Financial Finish Lines. Answer the question: “How much is enough?” through prayer, counsel, and time in God’s Word.

• What do you need financially that will allow you to live comfortably and donate the rest? 

• What things can you eliminate to meet this goal?

What is your view of money? Is it something you earn, yes? Is it something you should pursue at all costs? To be generous with the money entrusted to us, we need to search our hearts about the hold it has on our lives. And rather than fearing money, see it for what it is and more importantly, who owns it all anyway.

• How do you view money? Is it a tool or a pursuit? 

• How many decisions do you make where money is the main motivation? 

• How can your faith in God start to transform you into a cheerful giver? 

• How can discipline play a role in this?

There’s no limit to the ways you can explore the Marks of a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. What we provide below are five ideas we think might lead each one of us to an even greater understanding of our God-given call to create.

1. Journal: Write down what your next faithful step will be. How can you face the unknown with confidence, not in yourself but in God?

2. Interact: This month, take the time to face your fears of failure. Pray unceasingly. Ask God for his help and guidance rather than relying on your own strength. How can you embrace your faith in a God who loves you and wants the very best for you?

3. Consider: During today’s video session, Jessica said that business plans are important. A clear vision is important. But no matter how much we try to close that gap between the known and the unknown, eventually we will need to take the leap. It will require faith every time, no matter how big of a jump it is. Are you ready? What’s holding you back?

4. Act Differently: Try your best to work from a place of courage this month. This boldness comes from your faith in God and everything you believe him to be.

5. Learn From Others: Visit faithdrivenentrepreneur.org to learn more or join the conversation by listening to our weekly Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.

Entrepreneurs can travel a lonely road. But you’re not alone. You’re sitting next to a group of like-minded business owners right now. One of the best ways to grow the Faith Driven Movement is to multiply your group.

Is someone in your group ready to raise his or her hand to start a Faith Driven Entrepreneur Group at a local church? Apply at faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/lead-a-group

This guide is intended for personal reflection and to help facilitate a meaningful group discussion. Take a moment to watch the video and read over the guide before your group meeting. Be prepared with some personal examples to help encourage discussion. If helpful, before you meet, print out or email a copy of this guide to all those who will attend the meeting.

What happens when standing strong means changing course? When do we let go of something good for something better? Change isn’t always sudden. And we can find ourselves in a valley for a prolonged season. This in-between is the tough part and it’s easy to lose confidence. If we’re surrounded by people we can count on—a group of peers and trusted allies—we can draw strength and support from them.

We have a tendency to focus exclusively on mountain-top moments. And who wouldn’t want to experience only success and prosperity? And yet, it is in the valleys where we are replenished and nourished.

• The only way to the top of another mountain is traveling through a valley. When was the last time you failed? 

• What did you learn? 

• How did the experience make you stronger, wiser, and determined to succeed?

When things get tough, we tend to believe that God has abandoned us. And we lie to ourselves thinking that we’re on our own. This couldn’t be further from the truth because Scripture tells us that God never leaves us.

• How has your faithfulness made it possible for you to endure difficulty and disaster? 

• How has God shown his presence to you? 

• How have people played a part in supporting you and serving as the hands and feet of Christ? 

There’s no limit to the ways you can explore the Marks of a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. What we provide below are five ideas we think might lead each one of us to an even greater understanding of our God-given call to create.

1. Journal: Write down what your next faithful step will be. How can you face the unknown with confidence, not in yourself but in God?

2. Interact: This month, take the time to face your fears of failure. Pray unceasingly. Ask God for his help and guidance rather than relying on your own strength. How can you embrace your faith in a God who loves you and wants the very best for you?

3. Consider: During today’s video session, Jessica said that business plans are important. A clear vision is important. But no matter how much we try to close that gap between the known and the unknown, eventually we will need to take the leap. It will require faith every time, no matter how big of a jump it is. Are you ready? What’s holding you back?

4. Act Differently: Try your best to work from a place of courage this month. This boldness comes from your faith in God and everything you believe him to be.

5. Learn From Others: Visit faithdrivenentrepreneur.org to learn more or join the conversation by listening to our weekly Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.

Entrepreneurs can travel a lonely road. But you’re not alone. You’re sitting next to a group of like-minded business owners right now. One of the best ways to grow the Faith Driven Movement is to multiply your group.

Is someone in your group ready to raise his or her hand to start a Faith Driven Entrepreneur Group at a local church? Apply at faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/lead-a-group