Today’s episode features a Super Bowl champion. And while his NFL career is illustrious, it’s what Benjamin Watson has done off the field as both an author and leader that he’d like to tell you about. 

He’s written two books—Under Our Skin, which addresses the racial divide in America and The New Dad’s Playbook, which is a must-read for any father with a newborn. He’s known for speaking truth and saying the tough things that need to be said in the moment. 

And in times like these, we’re grateful for his willingness to have an honest and real conversation. As always, thanks for listening.

Useful Links:

The Watson 7

Under Our Skin

The New Dad’s Playbook

Episode Transcript

*Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDE movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

 

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Athlete podcast. We've got a special guest today. We have Benjamin Watson with us. And it is not bad if you're wondering. It is Benjamin. And that's a big deal for me. My oldest son is Benjamin, and he's not Ben. He's Benjamin as well. And we've been able to track Benjamin Watson's football career over the time of last dozen or so years with my three teenage boys. And so it's a special treat for me as a dad and as a sports fan to have Benjamin Watson with us today. So, Benjamin, thank you very much for joining us. You don't need much introduction, but we're super, super grateful that you'd make time for us today.

Benjamin Watson: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. And now your son has a great name for sure.

Henry Kaestner: He does. He does. I'll tell him that. Thank you very much. So we've got to ask you about the most recent news, of course, after 15 years, 200 games and a Super Bowl. You just announced your retirement from the NFL. What went into that decision and what made now the best time to step down?

Benjamin Watson: Well, it's always a tough decision to stop doing something that you've been doing for most of your life. I mean, for me, football has always been around, even since I was a little kid, to be able to play in college and then to be fortunate to continue my career to the NFL. So, you know, you know, it's going to end at some point. You just don't know when. But I think that, you know, after so many years and injuries and all those things have to pile up. The family has grown a lot since the beginning and we moved around quite a bit. And we just have a desire to kind of slow down and see where we're going to plant roots and see what's next. It really is a young man's game. And the older you get, the more you realize that when you compete on Sunday, the injuries, the surgery, all those things start to accumulate over time and the day to day gets a lot tougher. So a combination of several different things for us. It was, you know, the family just feeling like it was timem physically feeling like it was time, and also mentally and spiritually, emotionally feeling like, you know, it's time for us to find out what the next chapter is along this journey we call life.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah. So you leave the Patriots. Seems like Tom Brady follows right behind you. What's going on there? It sounds like Tom didn't like the idea of being quarterback without you there.

Benjamin Watson: I guess that's what it was. I don't know. He did leave, which was a shock to a lot of us. I guess a lot of fans too. For me and the guys in the locker room, like he was coming up on the end of his contract, he hadn't signed a new one, an extension. And so there's always the possibility, look, in the NFL, there's always the possibility that someone's going to not be there the next year. That's just the nature of the business. In fact, when you look at life in general. Nothing lasts forever. And just like the seasons we come in, we go out and life goes on. And so as an athlete, you understand the NFL means not for long. The problem is when you're a guy like Tom who's played for 20 years and no one can imagine you being somewhere other than where you've been. And so I think that's why you see kind of the shock for a lot of people, because you're talking about generations of fans who are watching him play in that uniform. But as I got to sit by him this year and get to know him more than the first time I was there, I'm just really happy for him and for his family. I mean, this is something that he obviously wanted and it was the right time for them to move on. It was the right move for their family He's very, very thoughtful. He doesn't really do anything on impulse. And so for him to make this type of a change, I definitely believe that there was just the right time. And so that doesn't change anything he's done in New England. Look, he's still going to get a parade anytime he lands at Logan Airport. So that's not going to change. But it is a new chapter for him, and I'm excited to watch it unfold.

Henry Kaestner: So you played you play with him. You play with Drew Brees. Of course. You played under Sean Payton and Bill Belichick. I mean, those are four of the most amazing names ever in the NFL. What's it like playing at that high of a caliber in a game that you've loved with some of the best teammates, and some of the very best coaches?

Benjamin Watson: You know, football is the ultimate team sport. And the reason for that, obviously, is because it is a beautifully violent game, which makes it great. But it requires everyone to work together in a way that's really unique among any other sports. And also, you know, when you talk about the amount of people that it takes to put out a successful product on the field, meaning to win games it's more than simply a quarterback or an offensive line or D-line or a great coach. It's everybody working together and everybody understanding what they do best and then doing that to the best of their ability on a consistent basis. And that's what I learned from those four names. Those four names, like you said, are four of the greats to ever be associated with the game of football. And their greatness, they would tell you is part obviously their commitment to their craft, but also it's the ability to encourage other people to be the best of their craft while they're in cohort with them. And while they're all working together.

And then I learned from all of them, you know, I was inspired by all of them in different ways and I was challenged by all of them. And some of them made me mad sometimes. But it was all to get better football. So I'm very appreciative to have crossed paths with all those guys.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, it's amazing, amazing career. And I think that my sense, having followed your career, is that they're all reflecting about the fact that they got to play with you as well and how you made them better. If we could, looking back at your time before the NFL, when did the gospel become real to you? And how is that going through your career and into your life as a parent?

Benjamin Watson: The gospel became real to me. I'll say this. My earliest memories I can remember knowing about the gospel. I remember knowing or learning in church in Sunday school and going to vacation Bible school and you know, then seeing my father and my mother involved with ministry very early on, I remember my grandmother going to her church and all those sorts of things. So the gospel was a part of my life before I became a believer. It was there. So I was very aware of it. But I didn't become a Christian until I was still early on in life. I was a child. I was around six or seven years old when I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ. But I always knew that this was a decision that I had to make. And I got no credit or brownie points for being the son of a preacher like my dad used to always say, just because you put your head in the oven, that don't make you a biscuit. Just because you go to church tt doesn't make you a Christian, just because you go in the garage, that don't make you a vehicle.

So being in church I knew was important. And I enjoyed going to church. I enjoyed being with my friends at church. And, you know, I didn't enjoy going to church every single day. You know, someone some of us grew up in those churches where we went twice, three times a week. And that got to be a drag some time as a kid. We wanted to go somewhere else. But I also knew that just going there wasn't it. So the Lord called me the Holy Spirit, you know, drew me to himself at a very young age. And because of that, I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful that he drew me very early. And with that, it allowed me to have a very early understanding of my own sin and where I fall short and it would leave a really, really bad taste in my mouth when I would do or say something that I shouldn't. And I'm grateful for that conscience. And I think as a parent, you know, fast forwarding. That was years ago. So now I'm thirty nine years old and we have seven kids, have been married for 15 years. And the gospel influence, it really not even influences, but it instructs everything we do as people, as believers. Now, the gospel is what tells us how to be a proper husband, it's what informs our world view. It informs how we engage the culture. It informs how we respond to our children, how we lead them to love them and discipline them. It informs the things that we value and the things that we consider to be important enough to have conversations about them around the dinner table at the breakfast table. It informs how we live our private lives and informs how we confess and ask forgiveness to our family, because we know that there's a standard that is outside of what mommy and daddy simply think is the right thing to do. And so, you know, the gospel is the driving force with everything we're involved in, whether you are an entrepreneur, whether you're an athlete, whether you're a teacher, whether in some sort of service industry or whether you're in public service in your leadership, it doesn't matter. You know, as believers, the gospel speaks to all of those areas and to all of those branches of our lives are informed by something.

Justin Forman: Could you talk a little bit specifically how the gospel informed your work in your career in the locker room was like how was it received from other teammates?

Benjamin Watson: Well, people ask that question a lot. People I talked to ask, you know, are there any Christians in the NFL? And I say, well are there any Christians at your job? And they're like well yeah, there's a couple. It's the same way in the NFL. It's just a job. You know, football is just the job where you get a paycheck like everybody else. And our job is to go perform on the field and on the practice field. And so there are believers there. A lot of very strong believes and there are guys that could care less about the gospel, guys that are anti-Christian just like anywhere else. But when I was young, my dad would always tell me about Colossians 3:23, about working wholeheartedly for the Lord and not for men, and while I can't say that that was always my goal, my motivation when I was working. He put that little treasure in my heart and I always carried it. So I was always a hard worker and I believed that part of my working heart had to do with the fact that I wanted to be honorable with the talents that God gave me. I wanted to hone those abilities to the best of my ability, not only for myself, because that's part of that. I had goals that I wanted to achieve, but also because I believe God put me in a position to play the sport that I wanted to play at Duke University, the University of Georgia. When I got into the league, I alwasy prided myself on, you know, working hard because you know that people are watching you. God wants us to do our work with excellence. And the challenge that we face or really the minefield that we have to be aware of is the human beings. We have a works righteousness muscle that pumps very hard, as hard as our heart. And if we aren't careful how well we perform, we believe will be a reflection upon our value and our dignity. And we'll also take pride in it as if we did it all by ourselves. And so the balance there is understanding that God is the one who gives us all that we have. In the book of Jeremiah talks about God being the God that says let not the wise man, you know, boast in his wisdom or the rich man boast in his riches, or a strong man, both in his strength and Jeremiah, 29. And so what he's saying is, I look, you may be strong, you may be wise, you may be wealthy. Look, I was the one who did all of that. So how dare you boast it as if you did it for yourself. So as an athlete in the locker room that's some of the things that I carry with me and also, you know, as an athlete, you understand that you do have a certain amount of influence. We all have a certain sphere of influence that we are responsible for. And for me, mine is the locker room, especially if I got older my career, you know, when I'm sitting there with Tom Brady, you know, next to me in his locker and he's 43 and I'm thirty nine. They look at us like we're ancient. So we have these old people conversations that the young guys get involved with. But with that comes amount of responsibility to speak life and truth into their lives and also to hold ourselves to that same standard. And so whatever your mission to is, whether it's the board room or, you know, the classroom or wherever? For me, the locker room, there's a tremendous opportunity there to tell you about the Lord, to show them with how you live, to tell them with the words that come out of your mouth to challenge people to to be very, I guess, aware and seeking opportunities to speak truth in a world that is definitely going the opposite direction. And that's how we tried to approach my career. And now being married, you know, its bigger than me. You know, it's also, you know, my wife, Kirsten. And any time she gets to engage with, you know, we have couples Bible studies or the women have their Bible studies and we have ours. You know, there's we're trying to sow seeds that will produce food. And we may not see that from the couples, but you never know. Two years, three years down the line, we're out of the league three years. And there's a couple that is leading because they may have heard something that one of us said three years prior.

Justin Forman: You know, I love how you're talking about how the gospel informs every area of our life. And you know, that's true. If we're in the workplace or the locker room or wherever it might be that God has us. Take us back a couple years because the gospel certainly informs so many areas of our lives. But yet some of those areas people are reluctant to talk about. But years ago, you delve right into an issue with race and just a big conversation that's been there in our country. And I was just incredibly struck by the way that you presented the issue in a winsome way and really, really just spoke some truth in a time when our country was needing it. What brought that about for you and what inspired you to sit down and write the book that came after?

Benjamin Watson: Well, the book was Under Our Skin, getting real about race and getting free from the fears and frustrations that divide us. What the book was unpacking of simple Facebook post that I wrote about my emotions following the events that happened in Ferguson, Missouri, with the officer and the young black man who was killed and and all of the unrest that happened during and after the grand jury decided not to indict the officer. And so, like many other Americans, I had been watching these things happen. And we all have our ideas about how it played out, even when we don't have footage. But it was very, very emotional time. And I just wrote about being angry and being sad that someone lost their life and also about being introspective, because when it comes to prejudice, we all carry some in some respects, but also being hopeless, because it seems like when it comes to race in this country, which, you know, you go back, slavery started in the late 1600s and then through the 1800s. But then after that you had a series of other things that we had to deal with when it came to a person's country, and you just hear these stories over and over again and being hopeless to feel like we've come a long way. But just realizing that we have so much further to go. But then also on the flipside, being hopeful that we have made this progress. And so I think that part of entering into that conversation was just a burden that I felt to find solutions and to bring people together. A lot of times I looked at myself as somewhat of a bridge. My experience in my life has been one of being in public school and private school. I've been in white churches and black churches. I've been in a university like Duke University. I want the University of Georgia. And I've lived in Virginia. I've lived in the South. I lived in the north. You know, now in Boston. I've lived in different areas of the country. I've been around different types of people. I've been around people who consider themselves to be, like I mentioned before, in a locker room atheists. I've been around people who are you know, they grew up in the church their entire life. And so I think that the way I saw it and the way I see it is that I want to engage and bring people together. But also want to engage with truth. There's a lot of anger and there's a lot of hurt. I want people to have empathy and see why people are hurting even if they don't agree with it. And so ultimately, I wrote that post about being encouraged because as believers, the gospel informs how we view the world. It doesn't mean that we don't see what's really happening. It doesn't mean that we aren't hurt and upset because injustice occurs. What it does mean is that we know a God who can correct all of those things. And it also means that whenever we enter into this, we need to enter into these types of issues with truth and with humility, with grace, and truth. Just like Jesus came. It says that he came from a father full of grace and truth. We need that same grace when we enter into these types of issues. And so right under our skin was really part telling a little bit about my experience with race. And my father, my grandfather, I include them as well, but also encouraging white Americans to really lean in and to listen to their black counterparts when they are saying, look, we feel like we are profiled. We feel like this is happening. This is why I'm angry because of this law. This happened because of redlining. That's happened because of being neglected from not receiving this or that or whatever it may be. These are the facts. And then it's important for those on the other side for black Americans to say, look, not every white person is out to get you. Not every white person even understands the gravity of what's going on. And trying to bridge that gap is really trying to get people to walk in other people's shoes. So that was the main point. Then after that my goal is to right what's wrong. Kirsten, my wife and I, I think I was really impressed upon us the last several years, just this idea of justice. And to me, justice comes in a lot of different forms. A lot of different faces. And one of them is obviously what we talk about. We talk about racial justice, but there's also abortion. That's an injustice. There's also sex trafficking. That's an injustice. There's also the way many of us treat women. That's an injustice. The list goes on and on. And I believe that God wants us to be ministers of reconciliation first, reconciling to him and then to each other. And that's kind of beyond what our mission is. That was the reason, really, I think now looking back in retrospect for the book, and that's what I hope that people glean from it.

Justin Forman: So I'll jump in one more thought on that, Benjamin, before we move on to something else, but just talk to us a little bit. You're talking about division and we're recording this in the middle of a time of crisis here with our country. And most of us are in some form of shelter in place or staying close to our home. And normally in these times of national events, it seems like it brings us together as a nation. But this one seems a little bit different. And not to say that's without hope. And there's other stories, but it seems like we're still stuck in this red, blue left, right. Some of the things that divide us. How would you take some of the things that you learn walking through the division and the injustice and apply it to what we're going through today?

Benjamin Watson: So it does feel that way. It does feel that part of the reason I think part of what makes this difficult is that we're unable to be face to face with each other. This is actually promoting us being in our silos.

Now, that's not inherently wrong because, you know, obviously with the virus going around, not being around someone who's infected is quite helpful for your health. But it does allow us to kind of stay in our corners and only watch the news that affirms our belief or only look at Twitter feeds that affirm what we believe instead of saying, you know, there's a lot we just don't know. And one thing that I've been learning when it comes to race and when it comes to different opinions about racial topics. Is that a lot of us just don't know. And even if you think, you know, try entering into a conversation or try doing some research on your own and just see what's out there, because you may be surprised that what you thought you knew you didn't really know does a lot of knowledge that men think they have that they really don't. And I think that applies to where we are now. There's a lot of misinformation. And look, I don't know all these things when it comes to Covid 19. I don't claim to. But I do know there's a lot of misinformation. There's a lot of finger pointing going on that is not helpful for the time right now. It will be helpful at some point when we get through this, but I don't see what it helps us right now, especially if we don't have all the information. We don't have all the facts to even make those declarations. So that will be the main thing that would apply. You know, the second thing is just kind of the overarching idea of understanding that, you know what? As much as we try, this world is never going to be perfect. And in this war, we're going to have trials. We're going to have tribulation in this world. And so there's going to be racism. It's going to be sexism. Doesn't mean we don't fight it. It doesn't mean we don't do everything we can to correct it and call it out. And it people who will live beyond that and above that, it doesn't mean we don't confess it. But it does mean that until Jesus comes back, there's going to be some of that in the world. And even when I look at this virus, that's just indicative of the world. This is indicative of life on earth. And it's not good. It's terrible. It's painful. It frustrates you and makes you angry because you think that everything is in your control and that you're taking your vitamins and you're doing this. You do what's right. Then all of a sudden, everything is shut down because of a virus. And it can be very, very frustrating. But it's just a reminder that this world is not our home. It's a reminder that this place is flawed, as beautiful as our homes may be and as secure as we think we are in our money and our jobs and everything else that keeps us warm at night. It can be gone in an instant because this is not our home and this world will never fully, fully satisfy us. It's only until we get beyond this place that everything will be perfect. It won't be perfect here. And this virus just reminded me of that. You know what? Even in America, as great as she is, she still is able to fall to the same viruses and the same tragedies as any other place in the world that we sometimes look at as a lesser place. We're all in this thing together and living on this planet that has its sickness.

Henry Kaestner: I'd love to give you a chance to share a little bit about your newest project, Divided Hearts of America. What's the movie about? When can we expect it to release? And why should people go see it?

Benjamin Watson: Well, the Divided hearts of America is actually my first foray into filmmaking, it's a documentary about the issue of abortion in America. And the idea for it or the impetus behind it was last year and over the last, I would guess, a year and a half, there had been several different laws that have been enacted by legislative bodies across the country, state governments, governors, most of them about reproductive health or abortion, however you want to term it. But there seems to be some sort of, you know, a ramping up. And I think the conversation is getting even more intense than it has been in recent years. And so about a year ago, I was just thinking about how could I get involved with this? My wife and I had been involved in different ways with pregnancy centers and supporting women, as well as the children and the fathers when it came to unplanned pregnancies. And, you know, always encouraging life, but understanding that it's important to care for mothers and fathers and not just for the unborn child. And so the idea of doing a documentary kind of came about and met with a small group of filmmakers. And, you know, we decided we're gonna do this. So Divided Hearts of America is scheduled to come out later this year. Covid 19, is messing everything up. But later this year in 2020, the full-length film and the journey is kind of my journey, discovering the truth about abortion, what it is, who it affects, how we got to this place. Who are the key figures in getting us here and what will happen if we don't address this issue? So I interview about 30 to 40 different voices in the fields of academia, medicine, politics. We spent a couple of days on Capitol Hill, spoke to some different senators about the issue. Faith leaders. And then also I thought it was important to engage some people who didn't agree because again, going back to the idea of empathy and understanding, it's important to hear everybody's point of view, whether we agree with it or not. I think the why behind what people believe is vitally important, not only to solidifying our own convictions, but also understanding how to speak with people who don't agree with us and showing some sort of compassion. And so it's really my journey.

Just asking the questions about what exactly is this? Do women? Is there a right to have an abortion? Should there be a right to have an abortion? What should we do to protect children? Why should we even protect them? When does life really begin? Those are some questions that I really answer in this documentary. And we're in post-production, so we've done all the interviews. Now, we are putting together these different areas of the film. And I'm really, really excited about it because I think that it's going to be very powerful for people of all convictions, really, just to hear these voices of those who are most directly affected and involved in abortion.

Henry Kaestner: I can't wait to see it. And you hit on something there that you also talked about on the race issue as well, which is looking at different perspectives and so that each side might be able to understand what each other's thinking. And yet, of course, you very much have a view on the sanctity of life. But I don't know that there's been as balanced of a review of that on both sides of the issues so that people can come together with some appreciation of perspective of what the other one brings to the table.

Benjamin Watson: Yeah, I was actually at the Supreme Court about a month ago for the oral arguments in a case concerning abortion law in Louisiana. And there were protesters outside, you know, some pro-life, some pro-choice, all outside the Supreme Court. My first time going to the court and ever being actually in the court and witnessing something like this. It really was incredible. But before it, I was walking around outside the court and I saw three women who had on shirts that said, you know, I knew that they were pro-choice. They came to protest against the pro-life people. Or, you know, you can look at it anywhere you want to look at it. But they were protesting against what was what they thought was an attack on an infringement upon their rights. And I engaged him in conversation. I didn't tell him which way I stood until a little later in the conversation and they were kind enough to keep on talking to me. And I just asked them, you know, what are some of the things that frustrate you about people who call themselves pro-life? And they said something that we've heard before that, you know, they only care about the babies. They don't care about, you know, women that are in poverty. And, you know, so you know that that's true. There are some of those things. Is there anything that could change your mind when it came to this? Two of the women say no, there's nothing that could change their mind. And then one of the women says, yes, I think if those people spoke to us like human beings and had a little more empathy and understood why we believe what we believe, at least I would engage in a conversation.

Henry Kaestner: Wow.

Benjamin Watson: And so look that's not everybody. Obviously you know two of hte women said there's nothing that would change my mind. And they kind of look at her kind of funny when she said that now. But I think she was speaking from a place of feelings demonize and vilified. Maybe for what she's done or what she wants to give other women the right to do. Yeah, and and there's no humanity in that. And it's really, really hard, especially with this issue right here. This is, you know, race is a tough one. And this is a really hard one. And it's emotional. You listen to a lot of emotion on both sides, for myself as well. I'm not saying that I'm above all this. And it makes you angry when you hear the way some people talk. Definitely. But I think on an individual level, those of us who consider ourselves to be believers, those of us who are followers of Christ. And we look at how Jesus engaged sinners, which we are. It was never devoid of truth, but it always had compassion. The time when he wasn't compassionate, when he was dealing with the religious people. That's why he went out then really hard to those people. But when he saw the woman at the well and, you know, he saw the people list goes on and on. It wasn't that he was giving them a free pass at all, wasn't that he was saying that, you know, wouldn't have to pay for what they did. There will be consequences for their actions. None of that. He was giving truth. But he gave a lot of grace and he gave a lot of mercy and he gave a lot of compassion in the way he engaged. And I think that is a template for us when it comes to this topic especially, I'm not for, you know, just saying it doesn't matter. It matters greatly. The lives of the unborn matter greatly to me. They should matter to all of us. But all the lives, you know, the mothers, the fathers as well, the situation. I think it would help us in how we engage to be able to understand a little bit in the film. I don't have a lot of other voices because honestly, a lot of them don't want to talk to me. They knew where I stand. But the goal was to least include some because it's vitally important that we hear their why.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, well, my sense in listening to that story is that if people were to ask those three women at the outset of the day, if there's anything that could change your mind, all three of them would have said no. But your ability to engage was obviously material. So those are some very, very big topics that you've addressed through some great creative projects. Do you have a sense about what's next?

Benjamin Watson: Well, promote this film was next immediately.

Henry Kaestner: Let's help you with that.

Benjamin Watson: Exactly. So I will definitely be in touch when the film comes out. But there's that there's you know, I'm learning so much about raising money for finishing funds. And you know that that's part of it, too, which is wholly foreign to me. But it's been a fun process.

Henry Kaestner: Tell us all, what's it what's a finishing fund?

Benjamin Watson: A finishing fund is basically money that's used really a lot of it for the editors, for the. We have two great guys that are going through all these interviews and editing them. So we got to pay them. We also have to start a marketing plan. And these sorts of things take money. We've got a presale theaters when the time comes. So it's all of those things that in a film when you get to post-production, meaning that you're past the point where you're actually recording and filming, now you're putting together the whole project to make it look like a movie. Because it doesn't just look like a movie just after you film it. There's a bunch of work that has to be done. I've got to do voice overs. You know, the list goes on and on of things that have to be done to make this a powerful moving film that will address this issue in our culture. So there's a website for it. You can actually go to my website, which is the watson seven dot com. But within that, there's a divide hearts page on there where people can kind of see where we are. You can you can click to donate if you want to get involved with supporting us in this effort. Yeah, that would be fabulous. So as far as what's next for us, we don't know exactly what it is. But Kirsten and I are in prayer right now about direction as to where we think we're going to move out of the cold here in Boston and get down south to where our families are. Just trying to decide when to make that move. So. Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: The last place I want to go is another project, of course, which is you're said to be a man of multiple jerseys, of course, but even more kids. So can you take us to your more recent book, The Dad's New Playbook? I know why this topic is important to you, but what can a reader of the dad's new playbook get?

Benjamin Watson: So new dads playbook is gearing up for the biggest game of your life. Basically, new dads playbook is what to expect, what she's expecting for guys. So we probably had our third kid, second or third kid my wife said , you know, you need to write a handbook for guys so they don't make all the mistakes you made. So they'll, you know. So they know how to change a diaper. They know how to swaddle. They'll know what to say when they go to the first O.B. appointment, they know what questions. As you go through the new dad's playbook. It's kind of like going through a season with the Super Bowl being the birth of your first child or second or third child doesn't matter. And within the book is really an encouragement to men that, number one, you're needed. About a third of our children now being raised without fathers in their homes. There's a huge gap there. But really, if you talk about preparing a home for a child, it starts before the child even gets there. It starts with how you treat their mother and supporting her through this process and understanding the best way to lead and love when it comes to that. So it's part encouragement for men then. It's also part, you know, education. So there are several terms from trimester to you name it, that I talk about in the book, just to give men an idea of what they're about to embark on. I remember having my first child and I'm the oldest of six kids, but I never had a kid by myself on my own or my own kids. So there's a lot of things I didn't know. Just because. youhave brothers and sisters doesn't meanyou know. And so I was scared. I don't know what causes that. I don't know what these things mean. I don't know why she wants me to go get you know, ice cream for her in the middle of the night. I don't get it. How do I respond to that? I talk about all those things within the book and really had a great response. And a lot of men, a lot of women who have purchased the book for their men, but also just lots of men. I get messages just that. You know, encourage them because there's an idea that men are aloof and incapable and that's not true.

Justin Forman: Benjamin, it's great having you on the podcast and so much truth here that you've unpacked with us. And what I love that you have pointed us back to multiple times here in our conversation is just the gospel. And you've pointed us back to how that is the thing that we need to look at me in these tough conversations, if you could, as we close out the podcast. Just point us to where does God have you in this season? Is there a passage of scripture that come alive to you? Maybe it's this morning or this week that is really speaking to you in the season.

Benjamin Watson: Yeah so this week for those who are listening. You know, we recorded it this week is the week of Easter. And so this morning, we were just as a family reading through the gospel account in Matthew, of Jesus crucifixion and just the torture and the unjust trial he endured and the fact that he did all those things for us and that actually pleased the father for him to do that. And it pleased the father because of what it meant for sinner, what it meant for us. It meant that by Jesus obedience to the father's plan, we were be able to be right with him. We were going to have our relationship restored with our creator. And it's an amazing, indescribable event in history that has ramifications today. The world has never known a love like that. There's been no love act that has ever happened that will come anywhere close to as Jesus just did for us on the cross. And so today, especially being Good Friday, just. Thinking about that in just realizing the ugliness of mostly just that my sin isn't funny. It's not okay. It's not just because I'm a guy, you know, that it's okay for me to think this way or look at this or, you know, have lust than my heart or pride. It is not okay. Jesus went through torture because of my sins. That's what it cost. It cost death. And so I think today, specifically when you ask me a question, it's kind of a somber note is realizing the gravity of my sin. But it's not without hope, because we know that three days later he rose in victory. And so we do have hope. But we don't understand the hope. And we don't understand the victory. We don't understand the gravity of all that we've done in this our sin nature that separates us from God.

Justin Forman: Benjamin, so grateful for the time that you give us. I know there's probably some kids waiting downstairs, upstairs for you to rush back to them and take them through the next game of P or laser tag or whatever is on store this afternoon. But man, we're so grateful for the time. Thanks for spending with us.

Henry Kaestner: Yes, we are. As a dad. Three boys, I thank you for equipping me with a great articulation of over and over again about the gospel. None better than the last one you just shared about dis understanding the gravity or send to be able to help us to understand the hope that we have. And that was really compelling. That was really, really good. I'm grateful for your time. Thank you for the work that you're doing. I'm going to go to the Web site personally and fired up to do what I can to support the movie. I've gotten just eager to just continue following with guys. Got you doing next.

Benjamin Watson: Thank you. Thank you, both. I appreciate you guys.