Michael Jr. is a comedic thought leader. Using comedy and dynamic storytelling, he brings laughter and encouragement all over the world as he inspires audiences to discover and activate their purpose. This unique skill set has landed him on stages like “The Tonight Show” on NBC, Tedx Talks, and “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” You can find him in Sony Pictures' feature film “War Room,” as well as starring roles in “Selfie Dad,” “Laughing On Purpose,” and “More Than Funny.” He is funny for a reason as he works to make laughter commonplace in uncommon places.

Episode Transcript

Rusty Rueff: Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I don't know about you, but today I could just use a little laugh. Yeah. You know, with all that's going on around us, a little laughter, a little levity can make things better. And today, we might get a laugh or two on the podcast. That's because we have, for the first time, a guest who is a working comedian. I mean, we've had funny people before, but we've never had a true working comedian as a guest. And today we do. Michael Jr is one of comedy's most gifted stars. He got his start performing at the legendary Comedy and Magic Club in Hermosa Beach. His outstanding performance there led to Michael Jr being a performer at the Just for Laughs Comedy Festival in Montreal, where he was the first comedian ever to appear live via satellite on The Tonight Show. Michael's career, well, it took off from there. And today he tours the country using comedy to inspire audiences to activate their purpose and live a life fulfilled. His impactful delivery and versatility has landed him on stages like The Tonight Show on NBC, many TEDx Talks and Jimmy Kimmel Live. He's also appeared in the feature film War Room and earned starring roles in Selfie Dad and the feature comedy special. More than funny, Michael has spent a significant portion of his career making laughter commonplace in very uncommon places such as homeless shelters and prisons. We're excited to talk comedy and how it's serious business with Michael Jr. On today's FDE podcast. Let's listen in, Henry.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I'm here with William, Rusty went off to a dentist appointment. You can't make this stuff up. So we just actually, before we went online, we actually prayed for him. And he's going to be back with us, of course, for other episodes. And we're talking about how much we actually really, really enjoyed doing this. And I hope that you as an audience enjoy the times when all three of us can get on. I think that maybe 96, 97% of the time we are all three together today. We are not. We are joined by our first ever. You know, when you've been doing this for 200 times, you start running out of first. And yet I can tell you, William, that this is our first ever time with a comedic thought leader, a CTL.

William Norvell: Oh, that's good. That's good.

Henry Kaestner: Pretty cool.

William Norvell: I mean, I think I have that on my LinkedIn, but I don't know if it's approved by anyone.

Henry Kaestner: Nope, it's not.

William Norvell: So, yeah, so he's he's he's the first official. Official

Henry Kaestner: He is the first official one. Before we get to Michael Junior, who we've got in the house, which all kinds of fired up about, I actually want to bring up something that's actually actually serious and that is that product recommendation. I have very, very, very much enjoyed Nicky Gumbel's Bible and one year app. It just awesome. My wife Kimberly about six months ago stumbled on it and I've had the great fortune and blessing of meeting Nicky Gumbel and just a super guy. And I've known, of course, about the Alpha course. And she kept on saying, Wow, I've read this. And then Nicky come out this morning and my three boys have started making fun of her, like, Oh, tell us what Nicky had to say. But this year, for January 1st, I started and it is the best app that I've ever had, and I just think it's super cool. So I put it up on LinkedIn and I say The Bible one your app is really, really good and I really think it is. And Chris Herschend, who we've had on the podcast before I came in and Chris Herschend is our audience might remember runs Herschend Family Entertainment, Dollywood and things like that, maybe 20 different theme parks around the country. And he came in and said, If you do that, don't miss an opportunity. Instead of reading the scripture on the app, take a Bible and read it in the Bible and take notes and highlight and do that over the course of the year. And at the end of the year you will have something to give to your kids over the entire year with their dad's thoughts about God's word in it. And I've got three boys. So at the end of three years I'll have this. And so I thought that was super cool and I'm doing it, and I thought I'd share that with our audience.

William Norvell: That's awesome.

Michael Jr: You're going to share the Bible. We're going to make copies for everybody and all the listeners. Wow.

Henry Kaestner: Yes. Yeah. See, this is. Yeah, this is why we've waited 200 times to have you on the program because you [....] in big trouble like that. We are. I'm sharing with you just the goodness of that brilliant idea. Paying money to Zondervan is on you. It's on you. Michael Junior in the house. Michael, thank you very much for joining.

Michael Jr: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. This is awesome, man. Thanks for trusting me with this space. Let's get into this. Let's jump in. I'm excited, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Henry Kaestner: Okay. If you had to pick in Entourage, you're putting together a comic night and you think about all the. This is off script, by the way. Some that I'm throwing to, some going, see how you do with improv and you think about all the characters in the Bible who are the ones that you think would be the best to entertain an audience and might have a good sense of humor.

Michael Jr: I think the best sense of humor in the Bible is probably I won't go with a after all. I almost want to say Romans. I think whenever or whatever a book was when we were talking about, when they said, go away, baldy, go away baldy, when Elisha and the bears came out amoung them that's funny but I actually think the Jesus.

Henry Kaestner: Where I don't know if we ever gonna release any of this on video or not. Michael Junior does not have a lot of hair, and that's some element of the joke that he just shared with us.

Michael Jr: No, it's not. Actually, it's in the Bible. I mean, like, have you read or not? But when I talk to those kids came out and they started talking about Elisha and they were like, Go away, baldy, go away. Baldy wait does anybody else?

William Norvell: Oh, yeah. I am with you

Henry Kaestner: Why haven't you? I'm going to get.

William Norvell: Henry is on day 13. On day 13, the Bible, remember

Michael Jr: Oh, yeah, that's the problem, that's the problem

Henry Kaestner: Wait I have read it before.

William Norvell: No, no, no, no, you don't to...

Michael Jr: Don't try to fix it.

William Norvell: It is a utility podcast. We don't need to tell people things that are true.

Michael Jr: Don't try to fix it now.

Henry Kaestner: Oh my goodness.

Michael Jr: Just finish the Koran. So that was funny. But I really think actually that Jesus had a significant sense of humor. We just can't see it now because we know the end of the story. In fact, Rick Warren, I did an event with him and he gave me a book that I read called The Humor of the Christ, and he told me I had to read it. I was like, Dude, you should buy it for me? He didn't buy it for me. Whatever I'd be getting myself. If you ever get a chance to read this book, don't. It is a miserable read. However, it really pointed out to me some key elements that where Jesus actually was using humor, because I understand how comedy works, how to set up, there is a punch line, and you have to change the direction in order to actually make the whole audience think in one direction. You change it, cause him to laugh. But literally there's lines in the Bible if you look at them. That's what Jesus was actually doing. For example, when he said, Imagine somebody sitting around with all their friends, all their boys, right? And they sitting there and somebody walks up to them and they say, Hey, I want to be down with you, how can I follow you. And then he's like, Well, once you sell all your stuff, then you can hang out with us, right? And then the guy is like, Sell everything. I don't want to sell it all. And he leaves and he walks off. Now Jesus is there with all of his boys and this dude is walking off. And then Jesus turns to his boys and says, What, man? It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Boom, that is straight punch line. That is straight punch line right there. But because we know the end of the story, we assume there's no way Jesus was laughing. But if laughter actually opens up the heart and it does. Yeah. And Jesus was trying to make a deposit in the people's heart. chances are really high that he was actually using humor to do so.

Henry Kaestner: Oh, that's good. That's good. Okay, so.

Michael Jr: You'll find out. You'll find out after you read the Bible a little more. After you get past 13, you'll find out.

Henry Kaestner: That's right. So thank you for being on the podcast. You know, what we do is we typically don't, you know, ask a difficult question that then comes back to make fun of the host. At the outset of every one of our episodes, we typically talk to the guests and ask them about themselves and just give us a flyover. Who are you? Where do you come from? As listeners, you probably have imagined that, you know, this fits in because Michael Junior is running a business, he does bookings, he comes up with content. Anybody is an entrepreneur or a business owner. If they store the mission and vision of what they're doing, if they resource it and they get the right people on the bus, and Michael does all those things and we've missed a lot of that. You know, we had Lecrae write the foreword to the book and really felt that that was probably the first time we really looked at the creative industry and entrepreneurs in the creative industry and like, Oh my goodness, of course, I mean, if the creation mandate, they kind of undergirds our entrepreneurial call, why are we not having more artists that are responsible for creating their product and marketing it and serving it? How have we missed that? So we've got Michael Junior on in that vein. We're going to get at that today. But before I do that, Michael, who are you? Where you come from?

Michael Jr: So I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and I started doing comedy probably around 20 years ago. I probably doing comedy for like 26 years now, and I love it. But when I started doing comedy, my comedy was always clean, but it started because I wanted to really be accepted. I was trying to get accepted by people and. You know, I make my friends laugh at school. I remember going to the movie theaters once and a friend dare me to go up because in the middle of movie I stopped. My friend dare me to go up and tell a joke. I went up and told this joke and all these movie moviegoers who were just disgruntled, they all laughed, and then they want more comedy. But I don't have any more comedy because that's the only joke I knew. And that joke was actually a dirty joke that I had heard. But I rewrote the joke in my head so I could present it in a clean way. So I told the joke, and then I go sit down and security comes looking for me to kick me out. And I'm sitting down there. Security is looking for me and this white lady who I've never met before, I don't know any of the people in the movie theater. She stands up and she says, If you kick him out, I want my money back. And then these bikers with long hair and tattoos and these black people like the whole room, stood to their feet, in my defense, and it just blew me away. So I look at that in retrospect, and I used to think that it was really, God, give me a glimpse of what I'm called to do, which is make people laugh. But what he was really showing me in that moment all of those years ago was what I'm called to do is make people laugh so they can come together for something bigger than themselves. And that's what I get to do on a grand scale now. So I'm super, super excited about that. And then the biggest revelation I had through my comedy career, I was outside of a club one night in Los Angeles performing, and right before I got on stage, I had a change in mindset. I had a shift take place because normally when a comedy gets on stage, what we want to do is we want to get less/laugh from people. But I had a shift take place and I felt like God said to me, instead of trying to get less/laugh from people, I want you to go up there and give them an opportunity to laugh. This change everything. Because now I'm not looking to take I'm simply looking for an opportunity to give. I'm telling you, entrepreneurs, if you get a hold of this, it will change how you do business. It'll change who you hire and why you hire. Simply shift the question to What can I give? Because by default we're asking, what can we get anyway? So I get up on stage that night and I don't do a joke for the first 20-25 seconds. Normally, my goal was to have people laughing in 7 seconds, but I didn't even do a joke for the first 25 seconds and it was because I was getting to know the audience. When you have a gift for someone, your job is to present the gift. But when I was on stage before, I was trying to get something from them. So I go on the stage and I do my comedy and we have a great time. I leave the club that night and I remember I'm taking pictures of people outside the club and I look across the street and I saw a homeless guy. I had never, ever seen a homeless person outside this club before, ever. And I've been to that club many times, but that doesn't mean he wasn't there before. It's just that before my mindset or the question I was asking, if you will, was How can I get less/laugh from people? So why would I even notice a homeless person? So when I changed the question to How can I give people an opportunity to laugh? I noticed this homeless guy and I thought to myself, What about him? How can I give him an opportunity to laugh? And that's what sparked the idea for me to start a nonprofit that I have called Funny for the Forgotten, where we go to homeless shelters and prisons and abuse children's facilities, and we make laughter commonplace in those uncommon places. So just that little shift right there has changed everything, not just in my career or really how I do business, shifting from what can I get to? What can I give? Change everything.

Henry Kaestner: That's awesome. Do you remember how you interacted with that homeless person that first time?

Michael Jr: So that homeless guy, I didn't. I didn't know what to do. I was froze. I just saw him. And here's the thing. It'll be real with you at the risk of sounding creepy, I don't even know what to do really exists. Almost like it was like God just showing me, yo, are you really seeing everybody you need to see? And I remember saying to myself, How can I give him an opportunity? Laugh. And I was thinking, if I ever get a chance, that's what I'm gonna do. And here's what happens when you change your question, you start to see different answers. Four days later, I'm doing an event and this lady comes up to me on my autograph line and she says, Hey, I volunteer on Skid Row at a homeless shelter. Have you ever considered coming to Skid Row to do comedy? And I was like, No, I haven't. Like, I froze up. I'm be real with you I like to tell you. I jumped out with a gold microphone out of a phone booth [....]. I was scared, but I took her card and a week later, I'm on Skid Row in Los Angeles. Now, for those who don't know, there's a four block radius in downtown Los Angeles where they have about 10,000 homeless people in a four block radius. So I'm walking down Skid Row to go to the Union Rescue mission, and I'm thinking to myself, Snap, these people are not gonna laugh. And I get up on stage and they're coming in and slowly but surely, but people aren't laughing. And I'm feeling a little like it's really hard for me to take the fact that people aren't laughing at my jokes. But then I remember my question. My job is to give them an opportunity to laugh. When you have a gift for someone, your job is simply to present the gift. It's not about what you receive back. As soon as I had that thought, everything just relaxed. I went on just more comedy and people start laughing a little more. Then I noticed the more people are coming in. And some of them were looking at the clock. So while I'm on stage, I'm doing the math. I'm like, Wait a minute. They probably eat at 5:00 and they probably eat after the presentation is done. So I talked to a guy up front. I said, Hey, what time do you guys eat? He said, We eat at five. It's like 4:52. And then he said, But we can't eat until the presentation is done. I said, Really? I said, Well, guess what? These jokes better start getting funny because I'm just going to keep on running them until we figure out we could be here forever. Unless you all laugh and the whole room explodes in laughter. Now they're not laughing because I told them they weren't going to eat and laughed because I connected with them when I knew where they were. We went on for the next 6 minutes, had a great time, sat down, shared a meal together, and I learned so much in that moment. So every time I do a homeless shelter or a prison. I learned so much from I just learn so much because it's about what can I give? Not simply what can I get.

Henry Kaestner: So entrepreneurs are a group. So in terms of giving something to an audience, you might be able to identify with it. And I'm going to put you on the spot again, knowing a group of folks, and I don't want to overstate the plight of a Faith Driven Entrepreneur, but entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey. And it's, you know, you're responsible for, as I said before, stewarding the mission and vision, resourcing, getting the right people on the bus. It's Kurt Keilhacker. That's such a great job of giving that type of an overview, but it's like you're always selling something to somebody, right? You're selling something to your customers. Of course, you're selling some of the employees to come on board. You're selling some of the employees to stay. You know, some of us are more successful and you are. We talked about your assistant leaving. That's me making fun of you. That's returning the favor if you weren't or weren't catching it.

Michael Jr: It's just horrible that you had to explain the joke, though. That's the really bad part.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah. See, that's why I'm a podcast guy and not a comedian. And there are lots of groups that tell you that that that's good because I'd never make it as a comic.

Michael Jr: But I got a podcast too.

Henry Kaestner: Do.you have podcast. What's the podcast

Michael Jr: It doesn't matter. I just point that it does matter. I'm doing both for you. Just funny how life works.

Henry Kaestner: Okay, good. You had a funny how life works. You can be. As it turns out, you can be funny and a podcast host.

Michael Jr: Yes some of us. some of us

Henry Kaestner: I'm 50% the man that Michael Junior is. So you but you're selling something to somebody and then what ends up happening is, you know, you come back from work and you're at your house and your spouse says, how do you go to work today? And you feel like you need to sell them, too, right? Because you don't think you should have left that job at Nortel or Cisco to do what you're doing. And there's a loneliness aspect of it. So knowing that the you know, knowing that that's our plight. What's funny about that, what can be funny about that? What's an opportunity for us to laugh?

Michael Jr: Because I would almost question the plight, though, because if you go in saying and recognizing it's going to be lonely, it'll be lonely. So for example, for everybody listening right now, if I said to you how many items in the room or a place you are, maybe you're driving on our street. How many things do you see that are a color red like just right now? Like actually, William, everybody just take a look around how many red things you see in the world. Like literally how many red items do you see? You just count as many as you can in the next couple of seconds, much red as you possibly could see [...]. All right, now stop for a second. I'll just close your eyes for a second. Just just bear with me. Just close your eyes for a second. Yeah, yeah. And now tell me how many things you saw in a room that were blue.

Henry Kaestner: None. 14 red. Can't think of a blue

William Norvell: I had 14 red.

Michael Jr: It was crazy. All right, now look and see how many things in a room are blue.

William Norvell: Lots.

Michael Jr: Yeah, a lot more.

Henry Kaestner: More blue than red.

Michael Jr: Right. So if you show up as an entrepreneur saying, wow, this is going to be really, really lonely, then you're already preset to find those things. But if you go in there saying This is going to be awesome because I get to find people who I get to help with this thing that I have. You'll find those opportunities and it'll actually feel more fulfilling because you haven't put yourself in this box of anticipation where you only notice what it is you're really looking for because the ego wants to be right, even if the outcome isn't what you really want. But at least you get to say, See, I knew it. I knew I was going to be lonely, Oh, here I am. But no, the truth is, you don't want that. So look for something else. You actually start to find a theme. So it truly is funny how life works. I don't talk in my podcast. I'm just.

Henry Kaestner: That's good.

William Norvell: And you got you got a book with the same title too, you can plug that to while we're at it.

Michael Jr: Do have a book called Point Out How Life Works? Well, thank you William. Appreciate you, man. Why don't you ask the questions from here on out.

William Norvell: I want to take a second to talk about what you just mentioned. I mean, so I started a company three, four months ago for the first time and it just hit me. It's so funny how you just mention that the amount of people whose first question to me has been, while that must be really stressful, how how stressful is that [....]? Like, how are you sleeping at night? Like, I literally had a text this morning, somebody who's going on and I said, Hey, I just got to check in. How's the how's your entrepreneur's stress level? It's like they're preceding that. It's like.

Michael Jr: Exactly

William Norvell: Really awful. And no one's asked me yet, probably, or very rarely. I don't use I use hyperbole to make a point sometimes like, hey, have you what are you enjoying about the journey? It's all about the negatives is the main question. Yeah.

Michael Jr: Exactly, so I think if people would just start to focus on the fact like if you really believe in whatever that product is and here's what I think relieve stress a lot at the end of any product, at the end of any job, whatever you do, there's people at the end of it. But most of the time what happens is people will focus on the thing or the money. But if you can focus on how you're helping the person at the end of it, it actually brings you more joy. I had a guy on my show where I get heckled some time too. Would be not. It's always a reason I'll get heckled, right? I always say to a heckler like, What? But let me see if I got this right. You came to a comedy show with your own jokes. Let me ask you, just to be clear, like you don't go to Starbucks with some coffee grounds in your pocket like you just. So I asked this guy, I'm like, what do you do? And he says, the mechanic. And I'm talking to him like, So what does that mean? He said, It means I get paid to fix cars. So we started having the same conversation I am having with you. By the end of our conversation, he realized, because we made a shift, that what he actually does is help people reach their desired destination. So like he didn't change jobs, he focused on the people. And as a result of that, like, he actually gets excited when a minivan shows up now because it's a whole family that he gets to help get to grandmother's house and in his mind, he gets to play a completely different game. Therefore, the stress level drops significantly. So if you stop focusing so much on the product or processes and focus on the people that you're helping, I really do believe that those levels drop significantly. it does for me, like my assistant, I had one assistant who got pregnant, decided to stay home with her kids and her husband, all kind of weird stuff. That's just weird in general. But listen, even when I hire people, I'm really bad at hire people by the way. I don't hire people anymore. Somebody else does it. But when I hire people I would always ask a question, What can I give? Like, what can I do for this? I'm looking at those things, which is why I don't hire people no more, because I see their potential, even when they don't, unfortunately. So anyway, I digress. Next question

William Norvell: All right. Let's digress back. Tell us about funny how life works. Tell us about the book. Tell us about what goes on there. Give us the flyover.

Michael Jr: Okay. Yeah. So the book is like you mentioned, it's funny how life works. And I wanted to take some stories from my life that were funny and inspiring and use them to leverage learning. Really, I wanted people to learn some stuff, so I got some stories. Like one story that is probably on a scale of 1 to 10 of all the stories is probably really, I would say seven. There's some strong stories in there. But one of the stories, a guy comes to my comedy show and there's this thing I do on stage, right? I'm on stage at this event. I think it was like 3000 people there. And what I do is I listen in between the gaps. And I used to ask, how can I get laughs from people like I told you? But now, while I'm listening in between the gaps, the question I'm asking is, what can I give to my audience any more? From How can I give them laughs? What can I give to my audience? So I'm listening between the gaps. And what'll happen is my comedy shows are 80% funny. Like, you're going to laugh, but there's a little sometimes 10%, sometimes 20% where I'll say something extra that I feel like I should say. So at this in particular show, I mentioned how comedy works, how to set up, and there is a punch line. Then I mentioned How Life Works in life there's a set up and a punch line to your setup is what you received. But your punch line is about what you're called to deliver and a lot of people know their set up, but not everyone knows their punch line. And what you'll do if you don't understand your punchline and you think something's missing and you'll think what you need to fill that void, you'll think you need more setup, if I could just get married. If I could just get another business. If I could just open up this. If I could just. But you really need to know what is your punch line? And I said, and when you don't have that, you'll feel like you're in prison, right? So anyway, I say that and this lady approaches me afterwards. I'm doing an autograph line and this lady approaches me and she says, I get it now as she walks away because I'm like, You didn't get anything. You did not buy a book, you did not buy a t shirt. You didn't get nothing. I don't know what you told. So anyway, I go back a year and a half later and this lady approaches that same lady autograph line. She says, Do you remember me? And I don't have a colorful past, by the way, but when a woman just roll up on you said, Do you remember me? I'm like, Listen, I don't I might look like Dave Chappelle. You think about a wrong person. I don't know what you go for anyway. And she says, I talked to you a year and a half ago, I've got to tell you, what happened was, okay, so I finish up the autograph line. And she says to me, when I was here a year and a half ago, she said, I'm a schoolteacher, and I was -$137 in my bank account. And she said, on top of all the other stress, she says, someone gave her a ticket to my comedy show just to laugh and forget about her problems for a little while. She said on top of all of this stress, her favorite student approached her that day, which was a Friday night, and said that she wasn't coming back to school anymore because her mom was going to prison and her dad she'd never met before and she didn't want to get caught up in the foster care system. So she's going to figure it out on her own. The teacher goes on my show, she's laughing, and then I said those things in between the gaps. By the way, let me pause. Every entrepreneur or listener right now, whatever you do, no matter how busy you are, there's gaps. What question are you asking in between the gaps? Are you asking the question of What can I get? Are you asking a question of What can I give? And if you don't know the answer to that question, I think you know the answer to that question by default. Okay. So she says, Michael, you said what you said and I knew what I had to do. She said, then I walked past your autograph table and I said to you, I get it now? So what she did was she went out to the parking lot, got in her car and called the student up and said, Listen, I don't know what this looks like. Why don't you come live with me for a little while? We just figure this thing up. She brings a student to her house that same night on Sunday, they're unpacking her clothes, and the teacher says she found a suicide note dated for Friday. And she and I'm sitting here getting emotional and she said, Since you've been here, I've adopted her. And her little sister, she sat right there behind you, do you want to meet them? And I couldn't even turn around. Like it took me about 5 minutes where I could turn around and look at these kids. But what really happened? All I did was listen in between the gaps, say or deliver or give what needed to be gave in that moment. And then these are the results. She was listening as well, though. So, listen, everybody out there who owns a business? Could it be that you have your business so you can get access to some people that you wouldn't have met otherwise? You can do the thing that you wouldn't normally do that probably has nothing to do with the thing that you sell them. Just a question.

William Norvell: Good question. Hmmm

Michael Jr: William, you look like you also fly a helicopter. I mean, you had to look like you. [.....]

William Norvell: Makes me look professional. This's actually plugged in to anything. It just makes me. It just makes me look like I'm doing something.

Michael Jr: You're a gamer. Really?

William Norvell: Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah. William has his winter coat on, which makes you wonder, like, where is he? Where is he really doing this from?

Michael Jr: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

William Norvell: I'm at this super cool church co-working space that does not have heat is where I am. But it's awesome.

Michael Jr: But you're saving money, so that's what's important.

William Norvell: Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: All right. I have a question for you. What's the pressure like? You've been doing this for 26 years and people know you've been a funny guy. So like we're going through the podcast we had on our slate today and our executive producer is not on this. Justin Foreman Just like, okay, so here's we have this, this, this, this and this. And then he's like, oh, and Michael Jr is a comedian. Didn't say comic thought leader. I've now changed everything to be that. But he said, you know, he's a comedian and like, well, that's great, that's going to be easy. I don't have to prepare for that, which connotes that there's some level of responsibility you have of carrying the podcast, because I had to be thoughtful maybe about how to really think through how are we going to do the other podcast?

Michael Jr: I knew I was going to carry this one, I knew I was going to carry from a get go. I just I've watched before. So I have learned, I got to carry this whole thing.

Henry Kaestner: That's right.

Michael Jr: I am just.

Henry Kaestner: And then you find out that Rusty is not here. Like, that was the only chance I had of somebody being able to help me and just I could work with that guy, and now he's not even on it.

Michael Jr: I know he's not here. Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: That's fair.

Michael Jr: So there's a question somewhere in there.

William Norvell: I think so.

Henry Kaestner: Well, the.

Henry Kaestner: Question is this, is that what's the pressure to perform? Right. I mean, so you go from podcast, podcast to interview to performance and everybody expects you to be funny. There are probably times you don't feel like being funny or maybe there aren't. I don't know what's that like.

Michael Jr: So I believe that how you do anything is how you do everything. I actually coach a couple of people on how to present on stage. I actually am really happy that I'm the same person off stage and I am on the stage. So like people were literally walk up to me and like a pastor friend who's a great friend of me now when I first met him he said, Hey man, say something funny. Was I do see some people over here, go bring him to Jesus. Like, would you like I'm supposed to just do this on the spot? So I actually feel no pressure at all. I just don't. Because here's what I know. When people come to my event, they're coming because they want to laugh. That's not always what they need. Like, so I get to show up what they want and then maybe find out what it is they really need as well. So the same thing can happen in a conversation like we're going to be having a conversation about one thing, but here's what I used to do. Here's a mistake a lot of people make. You have a sense of humor, and I used to do this as well. They would use comedy as what I call a chicken exit. So soon as things get a little serious or a conversation is getting a little uncomfortable, they'll say something funny to alleviate the pressure and then change the subject. I really used to do this a lot, and then one day I saw myself doing it and I'd just start asking the question, Well, why am I doing that? What am I afraid of? On the other side of it? Like everyone has chicken exits. It's just mine was to make something funny. But now I rarely will do that. In fact, I'm okay with the silence. I'm okay. Well, whatever is on the other side of the awkwardness, like I'm really cool with that. Like, I really want to learn from that. So now even at my events, I never like if I'm having a deeper conversation with someone in the audience, I'm cool with that because I know I've got the funny. Even in this podcast, I think we're rolling out probably 80:20 serious versus funny, but I can bring funny whenever I want. That's just like a side dish. I can do that, but I'm only using it to get to where I really want to go. So I never feel any pressure to bring the funny because I used to when it was about me getting something from somebody and me being accepted. But now I don't I don't feel that pressure at all.

Henry Kaestner: So it's a ministry?

Michael Jr: Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's what a lot of people refer to it as. Yeah, that's what it's called. Unless we're negotiating, then I sound weird because they don't hear much. And so.

William Norvell: That's true, that's true.

Michael Jr: It's ministry. You're doing it for the Lord, right? Yeah. Got a collab too. But you got a free ticket to all my events. Like the Lord can be. He's. He's there, so.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah.

William Norvell: And I knew that I've seen you. I've seen you perform and it's awesome. So if anyone is ever anywhere near I think I saw you at the Truth at Work Conference. Three or four or five years ago.

Michael Jr: Oh. Yeah, yeah. That was fun.

William Norvell: So good. Really enjoyed it. And I'm curious, that was a Christian event. Not all of them are that you perform at, but I'm curious, we haven't really gotten there yet. You've kind of dropped some things in, but how does your faith influence your comedy? How do you think about those two intertwining or not intertwining?

Michael Jr: Yeah, I would say the answer to that is yes. Meaning [....] that yes, no question. But I don't know. How I wouldn't you know what I mean? Because even like when I get on stage, I'm asking literally, what can I give to my audience? And I used to ask, what can I get? Just that mindset alone, like even thinking about setup and punchline. Like the setup is when a comedian makes the audience thinking in one direction where the punchline occurs when he changes direction in a way they're not expecting. When they catch one of the change, they receive the punch line and the results are revelation, fulfillment and joy, which is expressed through laughter. Well, as I mentioned, life is the same way. There's a set up, there's a punch line. But the key is to understand how to deliver that punch line so it can bring revelation, fulfillment and joy, which is exactly what Jesus did. Think about the life of Jesus from a set up, punch line perspective. He was the king, actually the king of kings. So everyone knows they should serve the king, which is the direction everyone was going, especially when he entered the city. But what did he do? He changed the direction in a way they weren't expecting. You said, instead of you serving me, I'm going to serve you, I am going to climb up on this cross and I would die for you. It's the greatest set up punch lines story ever. And he knows everyone's setup. He knows what we've been through. He even knows, like when I was a kid, I used to struggle my reading and some other things. Even our set backs are part of our set up so we can deliver the punch line we're called to deliver. It's like a slingshot or borne arrow. The further you've been set back, the further you can actually reach. But what are you going to aim for? That's where God's word comes in. So yeah, I would say it's all one in the same. Whether I'm doing a corporate event, I do a lot of keynote like corporations or from our church doing weekend services, or if I'm just at a venue at a stadium or something, it's the same show wherever I go because I'm the same person, wherever I am, and it's the same God is at every event, so it's never anything different.

Henry Kaestner: I think that there's a lot there that we took this in a direction I didn't expect, partly because that's the way that Michael Jr does it. Right.

Michael Jr: Are you crying Henry?

Henry Kaestner: That was the questions that we did not even.

Michael Jr: Are you crying?

Henry Kaestner: Get around to. But we've got. What's that?

Michael Jr: Are you crying? Are you crying right now?

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, yeah.

Michael Jr: You got emotional. [....]

William Norvell: It's a very emotional podcast.

Henry Kaestner: You've hit some deep truths. And I'm crying because we've got to bring this to a close. And it's going to be a while until we get to connect again. But let me.

Michael Jr: Wait, wait, wait. What did I do? What did I do? Yeah.

Henry Kaestner: Now we're getting why you.

Michael Jr: Seem like that.

Henry Kaestner: We're going to have you back on. So I think you really blessed us with the. And I don't know if this is going to be, like, one of these year and a half things where, like, we come back and I will somehow show like our foster kids that we adopted, right? [.....]. But what you just talked about, you know, one of the taglines we have, one of the things we have is like entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey, but it doesn't need to be. And I'm now question like, that's kind of our outreach. And I'm thinking about that red thing and think about the red blue thing. And I'm thinking what are you saying, what about the 20 to 30% of people now some number of people are going through it's really lonely and we need to serve them, no doubt. But what about, you know, what percentage of people are like, oh, I didn't know I was supposed to be alone. Maybe it's maybe it is lonely. Yeah, I'm feeling lonely.

William Norvell: Well, even just, you know, it's so good, Henry. Yeah. I mean, change, right? Entrepreneur is a fulfilling journey. Don't you want some friends?

Michael Jr: Yeah.

William Norvell: I mean, like, what a different mentality one is, like, oh, yeah, this is going to be awful. As opposed to fellowship of the ring, right? Like, don't you want people with you on this amazing journey called you?

Michael Jr: Ooh, that sounds awesome. Dude I love that? And it's the same thing. You didn't change anything except for the mindset, the approach. And even as men, I mean, there is women entrepreneurs there. But you get a little pumped. Even when you said that you like, yo, just do this like I can do like I can do this. It could be fun. I can be there for my family. Like, there's some balance there in a significant way and I get to help people with this product I got. Speaking of products I got. I want to give something to your people is that ok?

Henry Kaestner: Please.

Michael Jr: All right, cool. Have you guys heard of Amway?

William Norvell: Yeah.

Michael Jr: I was just playing.

Henry Kaestner: Join Michael Jr's network. That's awesome.

William Norvell: You get to. We'll get to.

Michael Jr: Do this journey together. Come on. It'll be fun. No, I like to spread laughter as much as I can. So I actually have taken my entire comedy special and made it available for people. All you have to do, and you can watch it with your family. It's only up for a little while. My team is telling me that it's up now, but if you go to a michael junior dot com slash xtra, you can actually watch my entire comedy special with your family for free. michael junior dot com slash extra. When you get there, we'll send you the whole comedy special.

William Norvell: We need retake that completely. And we need to say for a special, limited time only and only for Faith Driven Entrepreneur listeners.

Michael Jr: I'll do it right now.

Henry Kaestner: No, I'm kidding. No, no, no. We can't do that. That's artificial. It's contrived. It would have been a like.

Michael Jr: I just heard you. He just made it happen.

William Norvell: Yeah. We've never done something artificially contrived on this podcast.

Michael Jr: Yeah. You never, never entrepreneurial. Hey, so let me say this only for the people on your podcast who are listening right now. If you go to michael junior dot com slash extra, you actually will get the comedy special. So if you go there and then if you tell somebody else, they can go to X. But the point is, enjoy it a lot. Just really want people to laugh.

William Norvell: Thank you. That's amazing. We're going to get that out. We'll get that out in May. We'll do a blog post on and get it out in front of the podcast as well. But one of the things we'd love to close with, unfortunately we have too, is we love connecting God's word through our guests and our listeners. And we love trying to ask you just like, Hey, is there something on your heart that maybe God's been sharing with you through a Scripture? It could be something this morning, could be something you meditating on for a while, could be something you've been wrestling with your whole life, because that's how God's verses work sometime. But I would love if you maybe just take a moment just to share maybe something from his scripture that you've been thinking about lately.

Michael Jr: Yeah. So I have a word for the year that I'm soaking on right now, which is trust. And then I think about Proverbs 3:5. Actually, it's a second. Romans says.

Henry Kaestner: Second Roman, book of hesitation.

Michael Jr: [....] for a second. And I was like, Oh, here we go. No. So Proverbs 3:5, trusting the Lord with all your heart and not on your own understanding that right there, just like I look for opportunities to do that. So when I have to just trust an example was I'm purposely this year looking for opportunities or going to seize opportunities to be more vulnerable with my family. Right. And so my daughter, who's 11, I was looking through my prayer notes and I saw and I didn't want to share this with her or anybody, especially on this podcast. But I guess I am now because I'm just going to trust I ask my daughter to pray for me one day because I saw where a comedian whose name I won't mention, had just sold 80,000 tickets in 8 hours. Right. And immediately I felt empty. And then I asked my daughter to pray for me and I hadn't shared this to anybody before I say, Hey, can you pray for me? I didn't give her details of it, but when she prayed for me, she prayed for my show because I was going to get on stage. I just didn't like the way that felt a little bit be of envy that little hint of envy it I had in that moment. And she prayed for me. She didn't know. She's actually ten years old and she said, God, I'm.

Henry Kaestner: Your daughter ten years older than you are.

Michael Jr: She was ten years old at the time.

Henry Kaestner: Oh, sorry.

Michael Jr: Yeah, your daughter is ten years older than me, if that's what you were thinking anyway, so. Oh, wow.

Henry Kaestner: Well played, well played.

Michael Jr: And she prayed and I wrote the prayer down. She said, Let my dad have a great show and let my dad enjoy his show and let there be no confusion. And when she said that, the confusion part just jumped out at me like I should not get my event confused with anybody else's, or what God called me to do with anybody else's thing. I need to trust in Him with all my heart, only not on my own understanding. So it just blessed me and I shared that with her and let her know how effective her prayers are. So even in that moment of being vulnerable and sharing all of those details with her and my wife was there as well, it was just really cool and I just plan to just trust even more so that scripture is really money to me. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not your own understanding.

Henry Kaestner: Well, thank you for the gift. A bunch of different things to include and especially it's just what entrepreneur a lot of times is selling. We talked about that a bit and there's some element of when you're selling, you're getting something from somebody and just changing that dynamic and just giving it. It's universally applicable. It's why you use it, but it may be something so obvious. You've been able to package it up and present in a way that's, I think, new for this program. And it's a great perspective and really grateful that you made the time.

Michael Jr: You guys are awesome man and this was very well done. Really, really well done. I really appreciate. One of you guys were amazing. Oh.

Henry Kaestner: Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll fight that out later. I just never know, we'll just never know. No, no, no. We know, we know.

Henry Kaestner: We know. We know that he likes the guys all dressed up.