Paula Faris has spent well over two decades in broadcast television. Most recently, she spent nine years at ABC News where she co-anchored “Good Morning America Weekend,” co-hosted “The View” and launched the “Journeys Of Faith with Paula Faris”. The Emmy-Award winning journalist released her first book, “Called Out: Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs For A Life of True Calling.” When she’s not speaking or writing, Paula is running CARRY Media, a company she founded to amplify the story of the working mom. As part of a series of episodes focusing on women entrepreneurs, we’re joined by Liz Forkin Bohannon who serves as co-host today. Liz is a renowned business owner and a previous guest on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast.

Episode Transcript

Rusty Rueff: Welcome back, everyone, to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our guest today is Paula Faris. Paula has spent well over two decades in broadcast television, beginning with TV affiliates in Chicago, Cincinnati and Dayton, Ohio. Cutting her teeth behind the scenes by shooting, editing and producing. Most recently, Paula spent nine years at ABC News where she co-anchored Good Morning America weekend, co-hosted The View and launched The Journey of Faith with Paula Faris. The Emmy Award winning journalist released her first book, called Out Why I Treated two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling and have started the Paula Faris Faith and Calling podcast. Now, Paula is using her platform to champion others when she's not speaking or writing. Paula is running CARRY Media, a company she founded to amplify the story of the working mom as part of a series of episodes focusing on women entrepreneurs. We're joined by Liz Forkin Bohannon, who serves as our co-host today. Liz is a renowned business owner and previous guest on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Let's listen in.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Hello to Faith driven entrepreneurs around the world. My name is Sue Alice Sauthoff. I'm the director of operations here at Faith Driven Entrepreneur. And today I am joined by the wonderful Liz Forkin Bohannon, who some regular audience members may recognize from our video series. And as a previous guest on this podcast, if you don't already know Liz's story, I really recommend that you go back to episode number 65 and spend some time getting to know Liz because she is a phenomenal storyteller, speaker, author, and we're so privileged to have her on the podcast today. Liz, welcome back to Faith Driven Entrepreneur.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Thank you so much for having me. Sue Alice, I'm so excited to be here. It's funny that it's been really fun to watch the growth of Faith Driven Entrepreneur on a lot of levels, but one of my markers for it is how often people are saying, I saw you in the video series. And so the more people say that it's just so fun to be like, Wow, this is growing and people are watching this and they're meeting in groups and communities are being transformed. And so I want to say, we're getting to Shark Tank level. We're getting to Shark Tank level of I saw you on the TV with Faith Driven Entrepreneur. So it's really fun to get to have that little benchmark for the growth of this community.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: That's amazing. Your video story, I've been in so many groups and have just seen the impacts of how it challenges people to look at their world differently and realize that they can look through a different lens and that God can use them for such a more significant impact than they ever thought possible. So that is super encouraging to hear for our listeners. This month we're highlighting the voices of female faith driven entrepreneurs from the movement, and we couldn't do the series without featuring today Paula Faris, who in 2020 left her dream job with Good Morning America and The View to start CARRY Media, which is a company that is committed to telling the stories of working mothers. Paula, welcome to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. And let me be the first to say thank you for what you do. I'm a working mother. I love Carry Media. I look forward every Sunday night to getting the carry on newsletter I submitted to the Why I Work thing and you featuring my photo and I was so excited.

Paula Faris: Sue Alice. That's amazing. I just got.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I just love what you guys are doing and. Yeah, it's so fantastic. We know that you've built your career on journalism, right? But now you're pivoting to share the stories of working mothers. So kick it off with what is the question that you think working mothers get asked often?

Paula Faris: I think working mothers probably get asked like why they work. Do they work because they want to work? Did they work because they have to work or do they work because they get to work? I found that a majority of moms these days are working because they have to work for the paycheck. It's just the reality of our economy, you know, and one of the things that always drive me crazy, you know, as a working mom, was just this level of the perception that we come to the table as a risk and a liability and we're not committed. Like, are you really committed? How can you pull all of that off? Right. And I think there's no greater sector, corporate sector, employee sector than the working mom, because we just know how to get stuff done quickly. And we do it with courage. Right. And we do it with efficiency and we do it with great leadership and vision, all the things that make an ideal employee. Yet we get scrutinized, right. Because, oh, she's a mom, right? She's probably counting Cheerios in the corner. But I just want to give working moms a voice, whether they get to work, have to work or want to work.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: That's so good. That's so good. So tell us a bit of your backstory. You've shared very candidly about being burnt out since your job. When you're at The View and GMA, give us more details on that.

Paula Faris: Well, by the way, Liz, did you notice what necklace I'm wearing?

Liz Forkin Bohannon: I did. I love your Seiko designs. Mama necklace. My favorite. Do you wear it every day?

Paula Faris: Every single day it says Mama. Thank you very much, Liz. So just a little bit of my background. You know, I went to school for broadcast communications and production work behind the scenes and finally had enough courage to face my own fears and be in front of the camera. And that was I graduated college in 97 from a small liberal arts school in Ohio. And then my first on air job was in 2001. And so the way it works in broadcasting, broadcast communications, it's kind of like coaching. You started a peewee level, then you move up to middle school coach, high school coach, college coach, and then, you know, the pinnacle is the NFL. So for me, I started as a PA making seven bucks an hour, putting together a tape, finally got on air. Smaller markets. Dayton, Ohio. Cincinnati, Ohio. Chicago, Illinois. And then for me, the NFL came, which was this big network job at ABC News. So we moved our family to New York City from Chicago back in, I think it was 2011. And, you know, did the whole like I'm at the top of my career, top of my game, I've reached the pinnacle. And then I got to the top and I was like, I lost sight of who I am. What good is it to gain the world and lose your soul in the process? And it was so hard to be a working mom at that level. And it's not that I wasn't committed. It's not that I couldn't do the job. I could do the job. But I just found that so often the workplace doesn't work for us and the workplace wasn't working for me. I was spending more time at work. I wasn't able to spend time with my husband and my kids. A lot of that was on me, but I think it's just the expectations that we place on ourselves, the expectations that society places on us. You know, we never feel like we're nailing it, right? We're burnout, we're exhausted, all of those things. And so 2018, I pump the brakes. I was anchoring GMA weekend. I was co-hosting The View, like, literally had it all. And I just felt God calling me out of that space saying, you need to slow down. You have to get your priorities straight. And so I did. And then.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Paula I'm curious, can I ask like.

Paula Faris: Yeah jump in.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Camp out there for a little bit? I'd love to know for you what is the difference between or what was the difference between, hey, I'm going through a particularly challenging season that's kind of requiring my all in this specific area of my life, and I need to work through that and it'll be challenging, but I'll come out on the other side of it versus I need to change something because I think that that's something just in general. Like as an entrepreneur, I really struggle to know, okay, what's a season that it's right for me to be like all in because I know that there's end in sight. And then when am I telling myself it's a season? But actually, if it's a season after season after season after season, that's actually your life, right? So I'm curious, like, what was it for you specifically in this moment that made you realize, oh, this isn't just a particularly busy or challenging season. This is I need to, as you said, pump the brakes. Like, what was that signal for you?

Paula Faris: Yeah, it's finding that difference between just like a little pivot and a total reroute, you know, or a detour. Like, how do you know the difference? So, you know, I had sensed a stirring in my spirit that I was supposed to pump the brakes, but then, you know, I'm like, God, you called me to this. Why would you call me out of it? Right? I worked so hard. I'm doing this for you, right? Why in the world would you ask me to walk away at the top of my game? Right. And so I started to have this restlessness within my spirit that I was supposed to do this. And then I was like, you know, I was so scared about it. People will think I'm crazy that, you know, I was a has been that I'm washed up, that I couldn't hack it. And so I just kind of pushed those feelings to the side, right? I pushed them to the side and I dug in even harder. And then I write in my book Called Out that I think that God allowed a very trying season to happen to get my attention. And so people will say, Oh, you're a brave for walking away at the height of your career. I wasn't brave. I was just like follow in the signs. I was I felt like Job. So within, you know, a short period of time, I had some major things happen to me that got my attention right. And at the end of those, I just wave the white flag. So I had a miscarriage with an emergency surgery like hours before I got this exclusive with Sean Spicer. You know, so like I'm doing this exclusive interview, the first one to sit down with him after the White House. And I had just learned that there was no heartbeat. So like you said, that was the first thing. Then I ended up that I had to have an emergency DMC. Then I get hit in the head freak accident with an apple. Okay, like 60 miles an hour right before I was going live. No.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: How on earth is an apple going 60 miles an hour? Tell me.

Paula Faris: So I was going live for Good Morning America down in Wall Street and like seconds before I. Was supposed to go live. All of a sudden, like something exploded on the side of my head. And the surveillance video, according to the police, the NYPD said that it was traveling 60 miles an hour. So I had a concussion. All right. From a freaking apple.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Okay. I am sorry. I don't mean to get hung up on this. Where did the apple come from? Did someone throw the apple?

Paula Faris: Okay. Yes. The surveillance video shows two kids, probably high school kids there. They backpacks on. Never found them. Were running down the subway steps. They must have stopped at one of the little bodegas. One of those stands grabbed an apple. And just to be stupid, right? That's what young boys act. And then they think, right. Just hurled it as fast as they could. That's what surveillance video showed. So it hit me like right behind my ear. Like if my face was turned, my face would have been shattered. But the police said 60 miles so basically took a 60 mile an hour fastball to the head, concussion. So I was knocked out of work for three weeks. They they wouldn't clear me to come back to work for three weeks. The day I was cleared, I get in a head on car crash. Okay? I'm not making this up head on car crash, so I'm out for a little bit longer. Then I get influenza, which then turned into to pneumonia. So I'm either at this point, like, life's fine. I'm sure God wants me to keep going at this pace. Or I was like, There's a big white flag. God, you got my attention. If I'm not going to slow down, you are physically slowing me down and that's what God did. And so I kind of went kicking and screaming, to be honest. And so I finally decided, okay, I'm going to do this. It's crazy. I'm at the top of my game. Who does this? But just realizing, you know, that my values were clashing with the choices that I made. So pump the brakes and 2018 couldn't figure out who I was outside of my job. Right. And then, you know, a year and a half later, I did leave ABC.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Can you tell us a little bit more about that season? Like, what was it when you said I couldn't figure out who I was outside of my job? Like, what did that look like? What were the questions that you were asking yourself and what were the signals to you that your identity was so wrapped up in your job that you didn't know it when you were in the midst of it?

Paula Faris: Well, it's like it was the loss of something, right? And there's always I didn't expect that vast array of emotions, from anger to denial to I was feeling everything. But I think there was more. I was angry at God in some capacity that he forced this on me. Right. And then I was angry at myself because I. I always took pride in the fact that I was a believer that I could walk like literally I would say I can walk away from what I do is still know who I am. But actually, when the rubber met the road and I had to walk away from what I did and I didn't have those fancy titles attached to my name, I didn't know who I was anymore. And so just like it was a season of self-discovery and reckoning. Eating crow, you know, like everything I thought that I was. And the way that I thought I had built my career. There was a lot of self-reflection. And then, you know, I feel like God just slowly started to heal my heart and show me that my identity and worth were never supposed to come from a job. And my value wasn't a vocation. My worth wasn'y work. You know, my calling wasn't just career because, you know, I was also angry at the church because often we're told to find our calling and it's always career related. And then when our career changes, we don't know who we are outside of it. So I was angry at a lot of people, a lot of institutions, including myself, right, for how I got to that point. But God gave me a lot of freedom and permission to try new things and new seasons because my worth isn't my work and my value isn't just my vocation. And God's going to call me to do a lot of different things throughout my life. I thought I had to be a broadcaster forever. He showed me. Mm hmm. I'm going to call you too many different things in many different seasons. But your ultimate purpose is to love God and love people. And wherever you're placed vocationally, that's the conduit. That's the way in which you will love God and love people. So it's honestly given me like this new lease on life and permission to try new things and new seasons, which is why I'm dabbling my toes in, you know, this area which has been on my heart for like eight years, to really give working moms a voice and to change the game for them to become an entrepreneur. I'm not an entrepreneur or anything. I don't have my master's in business. I don't know the first thing about it, but I know God gave me this passion that I've had for a long time, and I know that my worth isn't in my work, so I'm just going for it and I continue to press in. I'm like, God, if you want me to keep going for it, keep bringing the right people around, keep surrounding me with the right voices, continue to give me courage because I'm scared as hell. But I just feel I feel like I have the courage to try something new, to try something that's really scary, to give myself permission to see myself in a new capacity. And often that's where it starts. Like we don't give ourselves permission to even see something new for us, and then we freak out because we're like, nobody else will see me in this new capacity. They'll see me as this because this is what I've done for my whole life. But it starts with us. It starts with permission. And it starts with knowing your true worth and where your true worth lies.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: So good, so walk us from the transition out of broadcasting into where you are now and why you're starting CARRY Media. Tell us more about what CARRY Media is doing and what this next season looks like for you.

Paula Faris: Mm hmm. So. So there's a little bit more that happened. It wasn't just like 2018. I pump the brakes, and now I'm here. 2018, I pump the brakes and I do stay at ABC, but in a much lower capacity. Like I went from an anchor and a co-host to a general correspondent. But that was my choice because I wanted to get my life back. Well, then, the first chance that ABC had to renew me. They decided they didn't want me. So I had a choice at that point. And that was the end of 2019, early 2020, right when the pandemic is happening. So I have a choice. I got get back in TV, which is the expected thing. I mean, and I interviewed at several other networks. That's the expected thing. In fact, one of my friends, when I told her that I was going to move to South Carolina and get out of TV, she was like, you can't disappear into the ether. You've built this great career. And I was like, Why is that disappearing into the ether? I just want to try something different. You know? So like, there's these expectations that others have on us. So I had two choices stay in TV, the safe, comfortable choice, or move to South Carolina. My sister is down here. So that's like the South Carolina connection. And my husband, he's in real estate. So we had just invested in an investment property and decided to come down for a couple of weeks at the beginning of the pandemic, just because the world shut down. And we get down here in March of 2020. We think for a couple of weeks or like we packed three changes of clothes and we just felt this overwhelming peace from God to just stay. And we weren't sure what was on the other side of it. I mean, I knew I was losing my job. They had given me a six month extension, but I knew I didn't have anything else lined up. My husband's jobs. Back in New York, he runs a commercial real estate firm in Manhattan. We have three kids, you know, uprooting them from everybody that they know. Literally, we had no idea what was on the other side, but we just felt this peace to stay. And so we prayed about it and were like, it wasn't stay. And I've got this for you was just stay. And that's the hardest thing to sit in because it's not enough just to stay. Sometimes we want to stay. If we've seen that next chapter, I'll stay because God know, all we were commanded to do at that point was to stay. And so we did. And we ended up selling our house in New York, moving down here permanently. My husband was able to get a different job within the company that is a little more flexible and allows him to work remotely out of the blue. I had one of the largest faith based podcast networks call me to ask me if I would do a podcast. And I was like, Yeah, amazing, right? And so that came out of the blue. But I really felt God was just saying, I want you to pursue this company, this thing that's been in your heart for a really long time. And so we decided to do it. And I emptied one of my retirement accounts and poured it into CARRY. And before he was even named CARRY, and I was able to go on, you know, the VC circuit. Turns out women get like no VC dollars. Moms get like less than that. I found that out firsthand.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: So and then let's talk about if you're a black woman who has kids, then it's like when you host show up on the radar.

Paula Faris: But you can't. So I get what that feels like not to be a black woman with children, but it's real. Like it was so hard to raise any money. Luckily I did an angel investing round, just friends and family and they're like, We believe in you, so we'll do this. But decided to go for it and God's just continually open one door after another. But I was telling Liz, Liz came on my podcast, I was like, Liz, I can't sleep anymore. And she's like, Welcome to being an entrepreneur. It's like there's this sense of responsibility that you have that you want to steward this, you know, those feelings of, Am I crazy? Am I still am I supposed to be doing this? But like, it's continually pressing into the fear. I have a peace that I'm supposed to do this, but it's not easy and it's scary and it's really scary. If you're an entrepreneur and you're in this space and like every other conversation, you're Googling the acronyms that people are throwing around because you have no idea what any of it means. Like, I just feel out of my skin sometimes, right because I don't understand the business world. But the really cool redeeming aspect of this is, you know, God gave me the permission to try something new. I'm good at asking questions. I like to champion people. I like to challenge people. My nickname was Paula 20 question So I've just always been inherently curious. So God says, use that in this new space and I'll show up everywhere else around you and just steward it. And I had. Continue to remember. This isn't my worth. Right. And God's going to show up if God calls me to something in the same way as with Moses, I'll be with you. And that's what I have to cling to. And that's what I continue to cling to.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Yeah. Paula, we had a shared experience of I actually was raising capital at the time I was pregnant. And I just remember being so struck by this physical manifestation of this season of life that I was in, that I very much so share with my male counterpart in life, partner and husband who doesn't have that same thing, right? So it's like he walks into a room to raise capital and very likely no one's going to ask him really anything about his family. How many kids do you have? What season of life that you're in? Like that just would naturally not occur to him. For a woman, generally, the thought does occur. People want to know. And then if you happen to be biologically reproducing, you can't actually even hide from that. It's like I'm literally walking into a room and my body is signaling to you something that you will now make a story up about in your head. You might ask me about it, you might not, but you're asking yourselves questions. It just like I just remember being so struck by the lack of parity in those like two experiences based off of gender and knowing that it's just like whether or not it's set or not, that is impacting my likelihood of success in this moment. And remember being asked questions that were kind of beating around the bush of just, you know, like and at the time it wasn't my first kid. And even like knowing people are judging that there's like, okay, well, good, it's not her first. So she kind of knows what it's going to be like to be a mom, but it is her second and that's kind of a lot like you can literally just see people kind of integrating that into their questions about, you know, taking risk or not on you literally with no words being exchanged, just like this is my body and you're looking at my body and making these decisions.

Paula Faris: It's sad and it's an unconscious bias often. But it's not just anecdotal. You look at the VC dollars and women get less than 3%. Moms get less than that. You know, women of color get even less than that. So it's not just how I'm feeling. It's not just my experience. It's the experience of women and mothers in general that we get 3% or less of the VC dollars. It's crazy.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Totally. And I think it's important to acknowledge I mean, one of my like rules in life, right, is that I want to assume the best in people. And like, I don't think that when I walk into a room, a male investor is like consciously saying this is not a good investment or this risk is too high, but it is. If you are not consciously working on your unconscious bias, you are allowing your unconscious bias to make the decision. And I don't I don't think it's malicious. I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's ill intended. But, you know, I remember listening to an investor, I was speaking at an event and there was like a panel that was happening between an investor and somebody who had been invested in by this guy. And he was just like kind of sharing about his general matrix for how he picks his investments. And a couple of the things were like business points, but then he kind of wrapped it up by saying, like, at the end of the day, it's really important to me to being like, who do I want to like get a beer with, smoke a cigar with, go sit in a hot tub and have like a nice, long conversation. And I remember sitting in the audience being like, you're never going to smoke a cigar with me in a hot tub and that is going to and that's going to preclude me from like, getting your money and just being like, that's so freaking unfair that it's just like, I'm not going to go on a hunting trip with you most likely. And I get the sentiment of what he was sharing was like, I want to invest in people. I think the good seed of that is like, I want to have shared values and I want to be able to have a friendship with this person. Sure. But if we're not super aware of that bias, like even things such as like gender of like, okay, well, cool. You're like a 50 year old white dude and I'm a, you know, in my late twenties young mom. So I'm now precluded from that opportunity. And that's very different than like but we do have shared values. We could have a great friendship and great business relationship. But if you're not really consciously thinking about what it looks like to pursue that outside of your norm, of like who are my buddies that I want to go hunting with, then you're going to preclude an entire sector of entrepreneurs. And that's not just about gender, right? That's about gender. That happens socioeconomically. That happens with education level, that happens with race and ethnicity. All of these things that it's like it's not I don't think people are evil for doing that. We naturally want to be around people who are like us. Yeah, we're not consciously aware of that and putting systems and processes in place for us to act outside of that than we are just perpetuating those biases.

Paula Faris: And we also need men in the fight. It's not that women are better than men or men. Or better that like, I think we're equals. We're different, right? Like, for me, it's not making a case against men. It's making a case for moms, for mom prenuers, for moms in the workplace. And I think that's an important distinction, too. Like, I am writing a book, it's coming out next year called You Don't Have To Carry It All. Ditch mom guilt and Find a new way forward. And my very dear friend and co-anchor at GMA, Dan Harris, is going to be writing the foreword because I like we need men in the fight with us advocating for us and they need to know that they're invited to the conversation and that they're not going to be emasculated. And Sue you mentioned, like, why I even decided to go for CARRY a long time ago. And Liz, I may have shared this with you, too. You're on my advisory board, so if I haven't shared it with you, shame on me. But, you know.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: We've got it now in front of all our listeners too. I'm really excited about this update.

Paula Faris: So it's like a mixture of my experience being a working mom, right? But it really started about eight years ago when I came back from maternity leave with my youngest, and this is my third Landen and my very first day back at work. And, you know, I hurried to get back to work at ABC. It's just you never feel like your job safe and you feel like somebody else younger and smarter and prettier can. I mean, that's just the environment, right? Someone else will take your job quick. And so I rushed back to work. I, you know, used as much as my family leave as I could and some sick leave. But my very first day back and I was already feeling awful about myself. I experienced postpartum for the first time with this pregnancy and thereafter, and my body wasn't bouncing back. Right. And I had to spend a lot of money on clothes that weren't going to fit in a couple of months because there's no transitional clothes for mothers. We're just expected to squeeze back into our, you know, skinny jeans, which doesn't happen.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: I mean, not to have a shameless plug, but Sager designs dot com. I designed a pair of pants for women postpartum. So I'm just going to say I wish I wish I would have gotten to it a little bit earlier there for you. I failed you, Paula, but we're there now.

Paula Faris: You didn't fail me. But my very first day I'm back at GMA and back at the desk, and I got an email from an executive after the show and it said, Not your best look. And I was like, not my best look. And I responded, I was like, just first day back from maternity leave already not feeling great about myself. If you could give me a little bit of grace, that'd be great. And I was like, hurt. And then I got pissed. So I was like, Why am I being held to this unreasonable, unrealistic, unhealthy standard to bounce back like. I just had a freaking kid. Why am I being punished for that if I don't have kids? If women don't have kids, right, then society is going to cease to exist. And if we don't have kids, we have fewer kids, then we have a labor shortage and then we have an economic crisis. So guess what? It behooves you to start supporting mothers in the workplace. So I got really angry and I was like, This is not the experience that working women, working mothers should have. Why are we punished? Why are we treated like a risk when in reality, like I'm starting to become like the best employee that you could possibly want because I'm more efficient. Parenthood makes you more courageous. When you're pregnant, you grow an empathy. Like there's scientific proof that all this stuff happens and we're becoming the ideal employer. Yet we're held to these traditional workplace standards that don't support parents, don't support working moms, but like do the right thing and support us, because otherwise we're going to have an economic doom. We won't have a kids anymore. So anyway, that's why it started. That's where it started. And then God just continually was like, drip, drip, drip. I'm not going to let this go. I'm not going to let this go. But for me, it was, first of all, giving myself permission to try something new and then permission, you know, to get over the fear of what other people would think of me, because I'm been a broadcaster my whole life and now I'm an entrepreneur. I'm in this entrepreneurial space, founding a company. What? So but that was really the genesis. And CARRY, I just it was a name that came to me. I was just praying. I was like, I need a name, Lord. And I, you know, I want to carry the burdens of working moms. So that's why it's called CARRY. It's as simple as that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I love that. So lean into it a little bit more you talked about just you're not a business background. You never thought about becoming an entrepreneur? I think we hear all the time from entrepreneurs that find themselves in that same space of I'm not sure if I'm qualified to do this or I don't have the background for that. What have you learned since starting CARRY about yourself, about being a working mom, about being an entrepreneur? What are some of those new lessons God is teaching you?

Paula Faris: Well, when I had Liz on the podcast, we were saying, like, journalists make really good entrepreneurs because we're naturally curious. And so I'm realizing too that like, again, God calls us to different things in different seasons, but like my gifts and talents that won't change that God gave me my ability to ask questions. I'm curious as hell. I like to challenge people. I like to champion people, and I just had to kind of redirect that to this new space as leaders. This is probably one of the biggest things I've learned is it's so powerful to say, I don't know what I don't know. Right. And to just acknowledge that. But what I do know, this is a space. I do know I do know how to challenge people and to champion them. And I do know how to ask the right questions. And I do know that God put this on my heart. I have a peace about it, but I'm still just so scared. And I've learned that the peace and the fear will go together. So just get used to those two things. Get used to not sleeping a lot, you know, waking up in the middle of the night, that's normal. But getting used to the peace and the fear that you have to reconcile in a new space that you didn't see for yourself where you feel unqualified, completely unqualified to pursue. So those are just a couple of the things that I've learned. But yeah, it can be overwhelming. But, you know, one of my friends just said I was like, you can get paralyzed, you know, paralysis by analysis and you don't know what to do. And she's like, just do the next right thing. Just keep doing the next right thing. And that's what I've been doing. I'm just taking steps. I'm doing the next right thing and it's scary and it's a very, very unknown. But God continues to honor and I'm amazed at just the puzzle pieces that continue to show up. You know, we are a for profit media company, but media companies are a slow build, right? So everybody that I have like three people that are on my staff that are part time and they're just like the absolute perfect puzzle piece and it's only God. So it's all of those only God moments. But so often God wants us to take that first step and then He meets us there, take a step and he meets us there. And I'll never forget it was a couple of years ago. God really taught me this lesson and I get lost in a paper bag. I can't find I mean, I've lived here in South Carolina for two years now. I still have to put in GPS directions to, like, get anywhere. I'm just so bad with directions. And I was putting the directions in. And you know how like at the very beginning I put the destination in and at the very beginning it's calibrating. It can't figure out where you are, like in a parking lot and you're like, Oh, do I go left or right? Like, you can't ever tell. And it's not until you actually turn and then. It might reroute you or it calibrates. It's like, Oh, you're going the wrong way or you're going the correct way. And that's how it is with entrepreneurship, with faith, with being a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. You have to take those first steps. That's what it is to be a child of God. That's part of the faith journey. You take the first step, then God reveals you're on the right path or you're not. But you have to take a step of faith and you've got to get used to the peace and the fear coexisting together.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: That's so good. I love that analogy. And it just also I love these moments where as people of faith, I don't know if you all have this where I felt the same way, Paula, when you were talking about identity, I was just like, I'm so grateful. I feel so lucky that I have a story and a tradition and a narrative that reminds me of that. But like, I'm not, you know, one of the every night when I put my boys to bed, our kind of family prayer starts out with, I'm not what I have, what I do or what people say. I'm a child of God and no one can take that away.

Paula Faris: I love that so much.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: And the amount of nights over the last six years since I've been a parent where I've laid in bed with my boys and have said that out loud, and I would say I'm saying it for them. But like, actually, this isn't like Mom deeply needs this message right now. I'm like, I'm not what I have. I'm not what I do, right? Not what other people say. And just like how grateful I am that as people we have, like there's just been many seasons of entrepreneurship that I am just like literally, how would you do this without an identity that goes beyond how successful you are or what you do or what you can accomplish or how fast you can grow? And I mean, the reality is entrepreneurs suffer from mental illness like at a far greater rate than the general population. And you wonder why. And it's like, duh, absolutely. It's like, here's the weight of the world is on your shoulders. Everyone's looking to you for answers. Everyone's looking to you asking, How are you going to take care of me? And there has been I have experienced as an entrepreneur just being very honest, like at times a deep sense of loneliness, of going like, who's asking that of me? Like there's no one else who's looking at me going, How can I serve you? What do you need? How can I, you know, what's your career path? How can I help you along that? What do you need to thrive? How is your work life balance going of just being like, I'm pouring out and pouring out and pouring out and then like, who is coming to me and who's watching out for me?

Paula Faris: Yeah, it can be lonely.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Of course, people of faith. Like we get to follow up with the answers like the Lord. Yes, like that. I have a greater security and that I have that there is this constant companion and friend and mentor, as cheesy as that sounds of like my friend is in Jesus.

Paula Faris: But, but I do want to encourage you, Liz I do want to encourage you I have found a community of women who are entrepreneurs, small business owners, whatever that industry may be. And we get on a call once a month and we are on a text chain and we encourage one another because who else are you going to talk to about? I don't know how to manage people. Like that's probably my biggest weakness, right? Like talking to them about these things that you're really struggling with. But in a community where you don't have to carry at all because you're right, it can be very lonely. You're trying to steward an especially a Faith Driven Entrepreneur where you're you're trying to steward this thing that God put on your heart. But you feel this responsibility, this deep responsibility to making sure that your staff is well cared for, you know, the servant leadership aspect of it, it can be very lonely. So I would encourage you to find some people and connect to anyone listening and don't wait for anybody out. Like I had to initiate this. And it has been incredible and it's just the things that we're sharing with one another. It's our circle of trust. That's what we called it, you know, the circle of trust. We can say anything and everything and we cheer each other on and we encourage one another because.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: It's so vital to this journey.

Paula Faris: It is so vital to this journey. So, oh, my gosh, it's so vital. I couldn't do it. I mean, I couldn't do it without community.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Actually, Paula, I was thinking of you the other night because in my community of female entrepreneurs, literally and sorry if we lose people on the Enneagram here, but literally every single woman in our group is a female 8.

Paula Faris: A Oh my God, you're my people.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: I called Paul. I got to call Paula. Okay, so we have we have a lightning round. So fun. Super rapid fire questions. Yes. We want to ask you follow up. Okay. Okay. So here we go. Number one, what was the most memorable interview that you've ever done?

Paula Faris: Tom Hanks.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Who? Oh, that's so good.

Paula Faris: Am I supposed to tell why or no, this lightning round.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I mean.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Yeah, you have to follow that up with a yeah.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: You can't just try Tom Hanks. Okay.

Paula Faris: Also Chris Hemsworth. Okay, for different Tom Hanks. So I had to interview him. When I was at GMA, I was interviewing him for the new Toy Story movie that was coming out. And Disney had arranged because Disney owns ABC and GMA, so they had arranged for the interview. It was going to be outside and in Toy Story Land at Disney World in Orlando. And it was pouring rain. I mean, we had some protection above us, but it was just it was like pouring and it wasn't pouring at the beginning of the interview, but it started to pour during it. And he was a trooper. I mean, he started playing into it. He went into his role from Castaway, who's catching water in his hands. He was just such a good sport about it. That will always be a really memorable interview. And also Chris Hemsworth, because I don't stargaze I don't you know that just celebrities don't really do it for me. But he was at the GMA set one morning. I was anchoring for Robin Roberts and we were interviewing him about a new movie. And they always give anchors these little blue cards. If you ever see the anchors holding a card, the questions like they're pre-approved, typically through their press people. And anyway, so I'm looking down at my question and I look up and he's sitting right next to me and I look at look at him and I look into his eyes and I'm like, I totally lost my train of thought. I blanked. And I was like, I had to figure out, okay, where am I on the card? Which which one is? My question again, I totally blanked. So those two this isn't lightning round. This is. We'll speed it up.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Oh, that's so good. Okay. What what is something that working mother should know? What's one thing that you want working moms to know?

Paula Faris: I want them to know that they don't have to carry it all. They don't that don't be a mommy martyr. It's not weakness or failure to ask for help. Surround yourself with people that can do life with you. And by doing life, it's helping each other out and carrying one another's burdens. You don't have to do it all. You don't have to carry.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Oh, so can we on this show make it the official end of the, like, martyr brag situation?

Paula Faris: Yes please.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Like, the more miserable your life is, the more unhealthy you are, the better of a mom you are. No, I am just. I can't. I can't. So anyway, you heard it here first. We're just done with the mommy martyr.

Paula Faris: We're done, apple. I'm done with it.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: It's over.

Paula Faris: And then we tackle....

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Yes, yes, yes. Okay. What is something that you want working fathers to know.

Paula Faris: That they need to fight for paternity leave? The more that they fight for paternity leave and the more they take the time that is given to them, the easier it's going to be for working moms in the workplace. And I want them know that they're invited to the conversation and that we cannot change the game for working moms without them by our side.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Amen can we have a whole separate episode? Yes. About the role of working dads. Yes. And fathers, because literally none of this changes. You know, I have young women ask me a lot like, what do I do today to prepare me for being a mom who has a vocation and a career? And literally what I answer them is like, if you choose to get married and have kids, the most critical decision that you will make is who you're marrying and their beliefs in equality.

Paula Faris: 100%.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Because you can't you literally can't do it if your partner or you can't do it and not be miserable. I would say I haven't found anybody. If you're not in a marriage where there is a willingness to truly evaluate and say like, we got to put all our cards on the table, we got to divvy this up, we got to figure this out. We're going to build a beautiful family that's connected and that's rooted and that's taken care of. And we're pursuing things outside of the home and, you know, being called to create outside of our family, there has to be a level of partnership and a willingness for both parties, I think, to really do a deep dive in there. Like, what's the story that we've been told and what's the new story that we're going to write for our family.

Paula Faris: Are we going to move forward in being on mission as a family? And then maybe when you do that episode, we can unpack the evil that we have done to men and told them that their only worth is in providing and bringing home the bacon. Okay. Next question.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Toxic. Okay. Clearly, Paula and I are not going to get hired for lightning rounds. Okay. This is like like a throw.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: This is so good, though. This is so good. I feel like we could probably make us into, like, a 12 part series.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: We should. Actually. Paula. I did just interview Justin Baldoni on my podcast.

Paula Faris: You did.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: It was so good, Liz. I just listened to it. It was phenomenal conversation.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: But it's all about that. It's all about let's have a conversation about how the patriarchy is actually really damaging to men and boys too. It's not just women and girls, and we can, especially as believers, we should be holding those two things that isn't us versus them. And we have to acknowledge, like this narrative that has been deeply damaging to women and girls across the globe. It's actually not serving men and boys.

Paula Faris: I guess not.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Anyway, very passionate about that. Okay. Tell us about what does it mean? What was it like to quit your dream job, to pursue your God given purpose? To sum that up in.

Paula Faris: A lightning round, it was conflicting, but peaceful. It was the right decision, but a hard decision. And I am at such peace now.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: So good. Tell us about what would be a key indicator for you, like a litmus test if you were like, okay, I don't know if I'm finding my identity in my work and if my work is defining me. How do I know if that's happening based off of your story, in your experience, how would you answer that?

Paula Faris: How do you introduce yourself to people and is it always associated with your job? Know, can you introduce yourself to someone without saying, I'm Liz and I do this because it's always the second question. You ask someone, what's your name and what do you do?

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Yeah.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Can I just say that that's something that I think is really unique in the U.S. like in times overseas and traveling, my husband and I travel together and there was a season where he was the stay at home dad and I was traveling for my job a lot and we had this amazing time in Southern Africa and no one ever asked him, What do you do? It was, you know, what's your name? And like, what are you into?

Paula Faris: Oh, I like that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Do you like hiking? Do you like, you know, are you a reader? What are you reading? And it was.

Paula Faris: And that wasn't on a dating app. It wasn't on a dating app. It was like like a conversation that, you have, these.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: It is like real life people just grabbing coffee together.

Paula Faris: I love that

Sue Alice Sauthoff: And it was so refreshing for both of us because in the States I find nobody asks me what I do. It's, you know, hi to my husband, what's your name? What do you do? And then it's like, Oh, and who are you? And so to just be in this place where it was, who are you like as a person? What do you enjoy doing? What do you love? I felt like it just spoke to us at a different level of and we put so much in our identity here in the States and maybe that's true in other places as well. But yeah, it was really good.

Paula Faris: Really it's a being. It's like who you're created to be as opposed to what you were created to do or to separate things being and doing. That's good. What are you into? That's what I'm going to ask people now. Can I steal that from you Sue Alice.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: And just like the the, you know, women constantly being passed over and people not asking them that question. Very painful to feel like you're invisible, like there's an assumption that you're not doing anything interesting or meaningful in the world outside of, you know, your family. But also, I have talked to stay at home dads or primary male primary caregivers. Similar thing, deeply painful that like this sense of when, you know, when you're a stay at home mom. I think in our culture there is a level of like good that's so good that so like good for you. That's really important work, which I believe. And then when we find out a man is the primary caregiver, it's like, Oh, did you get fired? Oh, how's that working out? Like, there is a whole other slew of questions that I feel like is deeply dishonoring and deeply shaming to men that both men and women perpetuate. And that's where I like want to call a little bit of I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say, but.

Paula Faris: I was just going.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: To say being edited out. But we can't say that this is important work when one person does it, but when somebody else does it, it's like, clearly, that must have been your last resort and you're staying at home with your kids. Something bad must have happened. What's wrong with.

Paula Faris: You? Because you're not the breadwinner.

Liz Forkin Bohannon: Wrong with you?

Paula Faris: Yeah. What's wrong with you? Because you're supposed to bring home the bacon. Because that's the one thing that you were created to do that your one contribution.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: My husband wrestled with that so much. But can I tell you that our marriage is so much stronger because of that season? His relationship with our girls is strong like it never could have been otherwise. And looking back, it's one of those things where, you know, this was the part of God's plan. And it's never a straight journey. It's never the progression you think it's going to take, like Paula saying. You thought you're going to be in broadcasting forever. We always have these twists and turns, but when we can look back and recognize that season was really hard, but God was leading us to this place and look at all that He's done through that. And I very sadly, I'm being told we have to wrap our time because we've come to the end.

Paula Faris: So we're done with Lightning Round, which turned out to be a slow roll.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: I Yeah, we'll just pick it up on episode 11 when we do the 12 hour series about that. I would love to know three quick questions. So I'm creating a new lightning round, essentially Paula. I want to know about your kids. Tell us about your kids. Tell us then what God has been teaching you right now. We close every podcast with that question What is God teaching right now? Or What have you found in God's Word that's really stuck out to you recently and how can we be praying for you?

Paula Faris: So my kids are 14, 12 and eight. So rising ninth grader, seventh grader and third grader. So I'll have high school, middle school and elementary school. My daughter's the oldest and I have two boys who are savages and I love them all. That thing that God continues to teach me is that this is a chapter. I may not be an entrepreneur in my next chapter, but the verse that has helped me probably for the last 20 years helped me get into broadcasting when I was too scared. And it helped me get into this world of entrepreneurship and launch CARRY media to tell stories of the working moms so we can enact change. Is Joshua one nine in it's have I not commanded you to be strong and courageous? Don't be afraid and don't be discouraged for the Lord. Your God is with you everywhere you go. And the most important aspect of that verse to me is at the very top, which is, have I not commanded you? And I really feel like God has commanded us as Christians to be strong and courageous, but he's acknowledging we're going to be scared and he's acknowledging that we're going to feel that fear. But he promises to be there on the other side of it. I don't know how this chapter is going to work out. I don't know if CARRY Media will be around in five years. I hope that it is, and I hope that it's profitable. And I hope that more so that it's impactful that we can change the game for working moms and we can make the workplace work for moms. That's our slogan is Being a Working Mom Should Work. And your last question, how you can pray for me is just pray that I can have clarity and courage and really that I'm just Holy Spirit led. I just want to hold this in my hand. I just want to steward it well I realize it's not mine. I'm just a steward of what God has put in my heart and in my hands. And I want to steward it really, really well. So just pray for that.

Sue Alice Sauthoff: Amen. Thank you. We definitely will tell our audience. We're so glad you joined us for today's conversation. You heard Liz and Paula talk a lot about community. And we hope that you can find it. We know it can be hard in different seasons and different places. We hope to make that easy for you as well. We offer Faith Driven Entrepreneur groups. That's a community of 10 to 15 like minded entrepreneurs walking this journey with you. You can jump in for eight weeks. You can continue on meeting monthly. After that, go to our Web site groups.Faith Driven Entrepreneur.org to see if there's a group meeting near you. Or maybe there's an online group of mom, prenuers or other female founders or people in your affinity that you can connect with so that you're not doing this alone. God's not create us to be alone. And He wants us to be in community. So our prayer for you today, entrepreneurs, is that you find that community and we want to help make that happen.