We often talk about the lonely road many entrepreneurs travel. But rarely do we discuss the pitfalls that come with the pressures to perform. It may sound like hyperbole, but for Mickey Peters, this combination of isolation and expectation ushered him to the doorstep of ruin. Mickey was leading a subsidiary of Duke Energy in Lima, Peru, with hundreds of employees looking to him for guidance. Mickey had no support network to lean upon, no friends to confide in. He soon found himself involved with a prostitute. Not long after, Mickey’s extramarital affair resulted in the birth of a child. Most marriages would have crumbled under the weight of this kind of devastation. Mickey admits that his would have, too, had it not been for the grace and forgiveness of God.

Episode Transcript

Rusty Rueff: Hey, everybody, welcome back and thanks once again for downloading the FDE podcast. We can't tell you how much we appreciate it. You know, we often on this podcast talk about the lonely road that many entrepreneurs travel, but rarely do we discuss the pitfalls that come with the pressures to perform. It may sound like hyperbolically, but for Mickey Peters, this combination of isolation and expectation ushered him to the doorstep of ruin. Mickey was leading a subsidiary of Duke Energy in Lima, Peru, with hundreds of employees looking to him for guidance. And yet, this heavy workload and high visibility only made him more reliant on his own strength. Little did he know that he was walking into a trap, believing that he and he alone had all the answers to go it alone. Mickey had no support network to lean upon, no friends to confide in. He spiraled. And eventually Mickey was involved with prostitutes, pornography and an extramarital affair not long after his infidelity resulted in the birth of a child. Most marriages would have crumbled under the weight of this kind of devastation. Mickey admits that his would have, too, had it not been for the grace and forgiveness of God and his wife, Stephanie. This is a redemptive story as we dive into the difficult discussion of loneliness. Our desire is to shine light on a topic that too often and for too many entrepreneurs, lurks in the shadows. This is what we'll do today with Mickey Peters. Let's listen in.

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I'm here just with William today. Rusty's off at a dentist appointment. And if you're.

William Norvell: 3 hours dentist appointment.

Henry Kaestner: I know. 3 hours. Why? If you're listening to this and you're thinking, wow, is it a dentist appointment for the last one too in this year like a week long disappointment, which is awful. Or he's always at the dentist. Well, neither does the case. We actually on occasion, we record podcasts back to back. And this one is William Said was a three hour one. So we actually prayed for I don't know if Rusty has ever been prayed for before he went off to a dentist appointment, but this time we did. And he's there right now. We have a great guest today talking about a super important topic that we probably don't spend enough time talking about. And it's the concept of having the right type of support networks in. And Mickey has an incredible story and one in which he is vulnerable and transparent and there's so much richness to his story and the redemption of it and just being really real. It's just a great entrepreneurial journey to it. There's just there's so much here. I don't want to overhype an episode before it starts. But, Mickey, I'm really grateful that you spent time with us.

Mickey Peters: Glad to be here. Look forward to hanging out with you guys and sharing the story.

Henry Kaestner: You know? And you're kind enough to say that this isn't your first time with exposure to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Ministry. So you've gotten some level of exposure to what we're doing, in podcast of course, we'd like to get a biographical sketch of our guests in so much that biographical sketch factors into your story. But before we get into that, just take us to very early on, you know, where you born. So let's start off with some of the basics and then as God has led you to today and then yes, absolutely. Please bring us through the story that you and Stephanie have gone through, please.

Mickey Peters: So born in Fresno, California, middle child older, younger sister and I moved around a lot when I was really young but really raised in Texas. You know, we settled in a town called Eagle Pass, Texas, right on the border. And my father was he managed a factory in Mexico, a large textile factory. And we were very devout Catholic, which meant we went to church every Sunday, went through all the sacraments when I was growing up. But it really wasn't a big part of my life. It was just kind of a check the box thing. And one of the things early on that has marked my journey over and over again and we'll share more about this. But I was exposed to pornography when I was young, about ten or 11 years old at home, and so learned over from that point forward using the porn and masturbation as a way to they say medicate my emotions. If I didn't like the way I felt, if I was feeling any negative sadness, any negative feeling or frustration, I learned to escape through looking at porn and masturbate from a very early age. And so then went to Texas A&M University and I am an Aggie, I was in the Corps of Cadets, which is the ROTC program that you live together in barracks, you spend all your time together marching and all that good stuff. So it's a very active ROTC program. I met my first wife there, graduated from A&M with an accounting degree and really, I would say met Christ at Texas A&M. And I met him because I had become a senior. I was graduating with honors. I had a job. I was engaged to be married. I had checked all the boxes that we're supposed to check as far as our culture tells us. But I felt empty. I didn't feel anything like I thought I should feel when I had reached the pinnacle, if you will. And so there was a guy on campuses he used to preach in the campus. He would always close his presentation with the gospel and a prayer to receive Christ. So I at one time, stayed till the end and prayed the prayer and receive Christ and really believe. That's where I started my relationship with Christ. I went home, broke out my fake leather Bible that I had buried somewhere that mom had given me when I left home and started really trying to figure this out and, you know, ended up marrying my first wife. And we went to Houston getting a job and working first with Ernst in back then it was Ernst and Whinney now [...] And was an auditor for about four years and then went to really Duke Energy. It was not at the time when [...] Became Duke Energy and my first marriage ended up not working out. My first wife left me for another man, but a lot of that time I was acting out with pornography. And you know, that was I was also very active in my church. I was very active in Sunday school and, you know, very, very present on Sundays and during the week, but also very much addicted to pornography. So then after my divorce, really acting out a lot more, but I met my second wife who still my wife, Stephanie, my current wife and but had done no work and network to myself and had not overcome that addiction at this point. It was definitely an addiction. And so we got married, moved to Lima, Peru, and I was still with Duke Energy and was named the CEO of their business in Peru and Ecuador. I was in my early thirties, was way over my head, you know, spoke a little Spanish. I was managing a pretty good sized company for about $300 million in revenues and 300 employees. So, you know, I was just, you know, very, very much beyond myself. So sleepless nights, you know, I was really stressed out. My boss was not very supportive. And I had, as you said, no support network. I was again active in my church. I was actually in charge of stewardship, but began again acting out sexually to relieve that stress. I had nowhere to go, nobody to talk to, no way to get any encouragement or support. And so I went back to the old behavior, right, which was to act out sexually. But at this time, this is a progressive disease. So at this point, I started acting out with prostitutes and eventually had an affair with the woman and got her pregnant. And so I had to share that with Stephanie. And that's where our journey of recovery and healing began. Coming home, talking to our pastor who had married us, you know, married us, five years earlier had to say, well, here's where we are today. You know, tough conversation. But he directed us to some great resources. And I got in diagnosed as a sex addict and got into recovery, which was very, very important milestone to get into 12 step program. We moved to Brazil where we live for seven years, which again, you know, the big change from Peru to Brazil was living transparently, living openly and also with others with Stephanie. But also we had a home church, you know, we had basically a small group, other expats, and really were open with them about our story and formed really a familial bond with that group, about six or seven other families. And so we were very close and that was probably my first small group, if you will, is that group of families. We're still very close to this day and then moved back to Houston in 2010. And really as far as entrepreneurial, we bought into a franchise and opened a few locations, found a local church still at the same church, active in our church, and again joined a small group of men. Continue to be active in recovery with, you know, sponsoring others and going to meetings. We started working with a group called the Fair Recovery and telling our story and mentoring other couples who were going through similar crises in their marriage and still doing that to this day. And so, yeah, just really continued to build, as you said earlier, a network of support, not only where we get that support, but we can also give support..

Henry Kaestner: I want to get at that because you've made that into a ministry and you've created a platform and are scaling it as so much of what I want to dive into, and one I'd love to have William dive into with you as well, bring us back in [...] Because you have kids. How old are your kids at the time?

Mickey Peters: We have three kids today. We had two in Peru and one of them was born there. So we had a newborn in roughly a 2 to 3 year old.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah. So talk to us about taking that experience. And Stephanie has forgiven you and you've walk through that process as you share that experience with others. What are some of the things that you both and Stephanie wasn't able to join us today? But what are some of the things that you both share with couples that are going through that type of experience?

Mickey Peters: Well, first, we would just share our story. Now there's a mentor couple. You know, you share your story and, you know, to show people you can get through it, there is hope. You know, my story tends to be a little more on the extreme end of things in most circles. And so it's, you know, well, if they can get through it, you know, we can, too. And so we just we really try to share what happened in enough detail so that they can resonate with the story. But then also, how does Jesus show up? How does a Holy Spirit show up, provide resources, support, comfort to help you, you know, get through the day, get through the moment, continue on the path, because obviously it's a hard path, it's not an easy path. And so really try to instead of just saying, well, Jesus helped us, we're all good now, you know, get into some details about how that happens to help them in their lives, in their context, try to see how God can show up to support them and help them to, you know, get through it and not just survive, but thrive.

Henry Kaestner: One last question. I have it. I'm so grateful that you've been so vulnerable and transparent with the story. You mentioned that this woman that you had an affair with got pregnant and then had the baby. Correct. So you have a child somewhere in Peru.

Mickey Peters: Yeah. So that's a part of the story that's still you know, these stories are never linear. They're always, you know, some crookedness to them. It's the way I put it. So I've never met my son I've provided, you know, financial support and provided them a U.S. passport because of, you know, the real focus was on my wife and my family and my affair partner, as you can imagine, was not a healthy person. So, yeah, involving her in our life was just not really an option. So I have not met him. I have not seen him, but now he's 18 years old. So hopefully that will come to pass. And, you know, it's one of those things that's in God's hands. And the good news is that as a couple, as a family, we're ready to receive him, you know, in a healthy, good, positive way. And, you know, the spirit can work through us and make that happen. So, you know, that's I guess, yet to be told that part of it is still being written. Yeah.

William Norvell: Thank you, William. Here. Thank you for sharing. I'm curious, as a young father, you know, my kids are all under three and a half. How have you involved your kids in this? But you just said something really important that I don't want to gloss over our families ready to receive him. And I would assume that means other things in your life as well. But just how did you bring your kids on this journey with you and how are they involved? Just I don't know. I know how to ask the question because I don't know the answers. I'm trying to learn. I guess I'm trying to think through it.

Mickey Peters: So we heard because of the fact that they have a half brother erred on the side of over communicating, there's no real perfect solution in that type of situation. So we wanted them to hear from us. And so we told them when we lived in Brazil, probably when they were little too young to really understand what we were telling them. We've always tried to be open with them about what was going on and what was happening and how we were dealing with it. And that's, I would say, served us well. And that, you know, they were able to ask questions or, you know, feel comfortable, you know, making sure they understood what was going on. And, you know, probably the biggest and, you know, two sons and a daughter, you know, they were kind of like, okay, dad, whatever. But my daughter by far has been much more inquisitive. And she's currently a junior at Baylor and she's studying psychology. And the first time I would say God really showed up and that story that you just asked about my kids and we wrote an essay to get into college, you have to choose a topic in Texas. And her topic was resilience and she learned resilience watching us go through this story and she wrote about it and how she learned it, watching in particular my wife Stephanie, and how she showed up and forgiving me, but also in continuing to work on our marriage and giving back and how she applied that in her own life and some different situations for herself. And she actually this is full circle, right? She spent a summer interning with a very covert they never really had access to a child before, you know, as an adult, the young adult. And so she wrote some blog posts for them around that question. How do you involve your kids in this kind of a story? And her her take on it was, yeah, you. Need to tell them. You need to be honest, need to be transparent and let them, you know, ask questions. And and so that's her take on it. So, yeah, it's amazing how God works. You know, I never I was just hoping my family wouldn't fall apart. Right? And I hadn't done too much damage.

Henry Kaestner: Right.

Mickey Peters: And God had a different thing in mind. He took it in, you know, now she's going to be a therapist, a family therapist. You never would have thought of that, but he did.

Henry Kaestner: So you mentioned something that I think is worth revisiting, too. And that is I think you use the phrase that that sex addiction is a progressive disease, disease progressive. And so, you know, clearly had a great ministry. So honored to share your story on the podcast in talking to ministry about what it looks like, you know, to minister to folks who have had marital difficulties, what does it look like for you in looking at pornography and and just the pandemic, if you will? Maybe that's not the right expression, but the pandemic of pornography throughout American culture, knowing, as you now know, that it being a progressive disease, pornography is, if it's not addressed, doesn't end well and can really impact families. How do you look at that first part of the funnel, if you will?

Mickey Peters: Yeah. That's where most kind of the gateway drug, right, if you will, the way you're describing it. And so it's very accessible. You can get it on your iPhone, you know, very, very easily. And it's anonymous. You can look at anonymous, it's free, it's accessible. And it's very, very, very addictive. As addictive as methamphetamine or addictive substances, drugs. And so, yeah, it's something that, as you said, it's very prevalent in our culture and something that, you know, what I did with my boys is really engage them in a conversation. Of course, having the, you know, all the filters and everything on their devices, but also engaging them. And, you know, hey, here's my story with that and here's, you know, where that can take you, because how it progresses is, you know, you continue to increase. You know, pornography is not enough. So then you throw in chatting or physical interaction with prostitutes or massage parlors and then affairs is where it took me. And so, you know, it doesn't just stop with pornography. It will, given the right opportunity in the right circumstances, will definitely continue to progress in terms of severity of acting out and the consequences, right. Yeah. And so for me, the best approach is again, having the right filters and having all of that on the devices, but also engaging in the conversation with them. And also, you know, of course, God invented sex, man, and he knows the best way, right? He knows that the way it works the best, which is, of course, within the context of a marriage. And, you know, it's amazing. Right. But of course, the world and the devil take it and perverted. And it is a extremely toxic and poisonous drug for sure.

William Norvell: One thing I want to dive into, because I feel like entrepreneurs once I've known myself and I've been in that seat, can think that, you know, too busy too overwhelm you kind of have to commit to family and work and that's it. I just don't have time for anything. And I know part of your story is just how the importance of community and having that around you. I love for you to share a little bit about how that was important and has been important and still is important in your life. And maybe some words of wisdom for entrepreneurs that may think, Hey, you know, I only got time for a couple of things and you know, that's not one of them. Right? I got to stay laser focused. How would you maybe answer that or encourage someone on that journey?

Mickey Peters: Well, I mean, you know, entrepreneurial is pain, right? Being an entrepreneur is suffering, you know, sleepless nights. Am I going to have enough cash to make the payroll? You know, are we going to get to the end of the cycle? And, you know, God didn't make us to do life alone. And that includes business. We need others. And so he had the obvious, you know, just processing things, learning from their experience. I learned that I was in YPO in Brazil, a young president's organization, and it was a part of a small group through that. And you learn from each other's experience is not a spiritual element there so much, but just, you know, hey, guys, I'm struggling with this, you know, getting other's input. And the main thing is the part that when I was in Peru, you know, tossing and turning at one in the morning, feel like you're alone, you're all alone, and you're trying to figure it out in your head. How can I get over this hump? How can I, you know, solve this problem? And this doesn't work. I couldn't figure it out. You know, fast forward when you have people you can talk to. First of all, I'm not alone. And, you know, I just immediately get some relief just from that. But then being able to talk about it and get some input from somebody else has faced a similar problem before. Hey, try this. You know, we connect you to this guy or this person, this organization. Oh, okay. You know, there's a solution out there. I don't have to reinvent the wheel. I don't have to, you know, try to solve it on my own. And really, it's the way I look at it today is it's a form of discipleship. You know, Jesus told us to go and make disciples. We kind of always think of that in the church context. But as an entrepreneur, you know, when you're out there and you're feeling the pain and the struggle of being an entrepreneur and you're able to get vulnerable when you're in pain, you're willing to be vulnerable. And, hey, I need help. I'm dying here. And so if they love what you guys are doing with the small groups and then you're able to ask for help from your peers, people that are on the same journey with you much as we do in recovery. And so then wow, good idea. Thank you for that. You know, immediately a lot of that pressure and tension is relieved. Then you have a way forward and then, of course, you can give back. Maybe you're the guy that has an idea of the solution. You're able to reach out, Hey, dude, you know, you're going to get through this. It's going to be okay. You know, this too shall pass. And so it's just the way God made us, I believe, is to do these things together. And that's what Jesus model for us in the disciples, you know, 12 disciples, a small group. And so I think it's really the way, especially in our culture today. A great way to do discipleship is in groups like you guys have where you're in a similar journey, you're able to, you know, get vulnerable, get help, give help, and then maybe take that home and maybe take that to your church or into your community. And basically disciple with Jesus, his last command, go, therefore, and make disciples.

William Norvell: So it's in there somewhere?

Mickey Peters: Yeah, exactly.

William Norvell: Oh, amen. Well, thank you for mentioning that. It's, you know, definitely was a part of the creation of the FDE groups and how the team has scaled. That is just to have people wherever you can, wherever you are. And yeah, sometimes that's local. And of course now in this world, it doesn't have to be. You can have a great friend across the world that can be there for you in a text message, in a video call.

Henry Kaestner: Though, it is a great opportunity also to mention for this audience what we're talking about here are these FDE groups where you get together and you go through the marks and the principles of a Faith Driven Entrepreneur that you really unite this movement, the call to create identity in Christ. And yet there's nothing that really can take the place of not only the local church, of course, but also organizations like C12 and Convene CBMC, FCCI, Truth at Work that are really focused on helping entrepreneurs to really, really go deep over an extended amount of time. And it's just a great joy to be able to partner with them. And we'd be remiss if we didn't point them out and what I would suggest, even as a superior model towards being able to go deep together. Okay. Back to our regularly scheduled program. You're an entrepreneur now. You don't think we've had an entrepreneur. There's been this type of a cross-cultural entrepreneur where you continue to do work as the CEO of Fontus Hydro, let let's hear about some of your lessons that you've learned as you've led employees in different cultures, gone through different markets. I think that a lot of our audience understands that their entrepreneurial skillset might apply beyond the borders of this country. Don't know what that looks like. It just, you know, this is off script a little bit because it is so important that an entrepreneur, this listening to this comes away from understanding how important it is to have that network support. But just freeform a little bit about what it looks like to be an international CEO working with employees across different cultures, different language groups. And what did you learn?

Mickey Peters: Yeah, so all of my international experience has been in Latin America and Central America and South America. And so there, you know, the spiritual aspect of life is much more prevalent, you know, in their language, things like if it's God's will and thank God are very almost every sentence is sprinkled with the one of those phrases. And so in that respect, it's more ubiquitous. It's more prevalent in the culture. But then also sort of just a check the box thing, right, in many cases. But, you know, Brazil in particular was such a wonderful place for us to be. And, you know, I learn the language, I speak Portuguese, learn the culture. And so it really is interesting how, you know, one of the one of the best stories I have about that spirituality and different cultures. And, you know, they really think Jesus was Brazilian, you know, and so as Americans really can't understand Jesus because he's really Brazilian, you know, and I would always argue as well, you know, there's some Americans that think he's American. You know, he's much more American, you know, and that's of course, that's Jesus. He's global, he's cross-cultural. But yeah, it's really, for me personally a great opportunity to see how faith shows up in different cultures and especially in work. And I would say in general, it's more accepted. People integrate their faith much more naturally abroad than we do in the US and it's just much more seamless, if you will, at work. There's not so much compartmentalized. The work life and the personal life are a little more interwoven to get to know people's families a lot more, their husband or wife, their kids. Every event is a family event and so it's you know much more open and much more just relaxed and how they it's not. So we're going to you know, I can't mention this word or that word. You know, I can't touch I might say Bible studies are very open, you know, much more prevalent. Not something that you have to dance around so much as we do here in the US. So I found it to be easier to talk about my faith. I remember the book The Shack. The Shack was translated to Portuguese and was a bestseller. The bestseller result for like three years.

Henry Kaestner: Wow.

Mickey Peters: Not just Christian book, any book. And so that was a great vehicle to talk to people because they would have that book in the car [...]. It was reading the book. What do you think about what's your favorite part? So yeah, and you know, the challenges of being abroad and learning this different language and different culture is definitely, you know, in the spirit and by the spirit. Because on your own. On my own. No way. You know, I. It's just too much to deal with in addition to just running a business, you know, just making the day to day decisions of, you know, just running a business. So it was definitely a growth broadening experience for me. And, you know, I have some great friends and great colleagues still in all of those countries and markets. Yeah.

William Norvell: That's amazing in as Henry said Yeah, the cross-cultural context is something we don't hear about very often, so thank you for sharing your observations. And it's true. So much fun to learn from different cultures and how they think about Jesus, how they integrate them into their lives. And grateful to hear that. And as we unfortunately have come to a wrap, one of the things we love to do at the end of our episodes is invite our guests to share a little bit from God's word on what may be stirring in their heart these days. So this could be a verse you read this morning. It could be a verse you've been meditating on for some time. It could be a version of meditating on your whole life. But we just love to remind our audience that God's word is alive and moving and they're moving through all of us. And so we love to invite you to share that, if you wouldn't mind.

Mickey Peters: So we put my glasses on. So this verse is the comfort thing, right? And I think, Henry, you mentioned it, we don't emphasize that enough. And so the verse was comfort us to Jesus is the question. And so the verse is Luke, and it's just a few verses. Luke 22 at the end of Jesus ministry, and he's telling Peter that he's going to deny him. Here it is. Chapter 22, Luke 22, verse 32. He says, But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail and when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers. And so the only thing he tells them, right, the only instruction he gives them is to comfort his brothers, strengthen, encourage. And so obviously, those are his last words to Peter before, you know. But when you overcome your disappointment and frustration for denying me, be sure you encourage your brothers a little bit further on that. When he's in the garden of Gethsemane and he asked God to remove this cup if there's any way, any other way, and God says, no, you know, there is no other way. And they say that angels came and comforted him. And so in his time of need, you know, God sent an angel to comfort him. So, you know, if it was important to Jesus, it should be important to us. Right. And it was.

Henry Kaestner: Indeed. Okay. I want to circle back to one thing. We never do this, but I want to circle back because the subject matter of today is so important. Mickey, if you're talking and you are talking to a Faith Driven Entrepreneur, a business owner that has some level of sexual addiction and they're going through it right now. And presumably some probably large number of our audience is I mean, people don't talk about it. I mean, people talk about a whole bunch of other things before you're talking about this, of course, practically give us two or three things to do right now. You just you've been listening to this. You've been impacted by this story. You understand that sexual addiction is progressive. You understand that you can be absolutely redeemed, and yet it can cause real challenges. What do you do?

Mickey Peters: Yeah. So recovery, you know, look for sex addicts. Anonymous sex and love addicts. Anonymous. Yeah. Google meetings. And wherever your zip code is or, you know, there's all over lots of them. Talk to somebody, write anybody, talk to your pastor, somebody you know, a church, you know, share it and ask you obviously safe people who may be in a position to help. But also, you know, if there's a way to get beyond, call me [...], talk to you and help you. That's what I do. A big part of what I do is help direct people just to resources and get help. You're not alone. There is hope and there is a way out. And as you said, God trusts me. God does redeem that. And there is a way, a way forward.

Henry Kaestner: and you can't do it by yourself. You know, one of the things that is impactful is lying in bed, in trust, trying to figure out how to sort this and to change it on your own. And so thank you for that. We'll put more of that information in the show notes. Mickey thank you for sharing your story and very, very grateful.

William Norvell: Well, I was going to say also we'll link to we did another episode along similar lines, episode 77 with the psychologist Jay Stringer called The Journey from Sexual Brokenness to Healing. So that's another resource we have. Jay's got some resources, some quizzes you can take to kind of understand the depths and kind of what may be taking you down those routes. I just wanted to point that out too, but so grateful for you, Mickey, and for sharing your story.

Mickey Peters: Yeah, thanks for having me.