Mark Whitacre is the highest-ranking executive of any Fortune 500 company to become a whistleblower in US history. He is responsible for uncovering the ADM price-fixing scandal in the early 1990’s. His undercover work with the FBI was the inspiration for the major motion picture, “The Informant,” starring Matt Damon. Drawing from his unique history, Mark provides one-of-a-kind insight into corporate ethics, corporate greed, and the warning signs of a flawed corporate leadership. And he would be the first to tell you that his story is one of God’s redemption—not his own.

Episode Transcript

Henry Kaestner: Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast joined, as always, or most of the time, 98 percent of the time with both William and Rusty brothers. Good morning.

Rusty Rueff: Good morning. It's good to be here on that 98 percent. I hate missing those other ones.

Speaker 1: It is sad.

Rusty Rueff: It's good when we're all here together like this.

Speaker 1: I got tired the other day because I sent somebody one where it was the three of us and I got sad. I was like,

Henry Kaestner: This is good, you need to listen to it. But but I'm a little sad about it. You know, I miss the one we had with Donald Miller. And, you know, people say, Oh gosh, I love your podcast. The one with Donald Miller is great. Well, is that because now is great because like, I like, drag it all down. I mean, I'm really happy. We've got Mark Whitaker. I'm glad that three of us are together and we've got Mark Whitaker in the house today. Mark, welcome.

Mark Whitacre: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Henry Kaestner: Mark, as we continue our banner, of course you find yourself on the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast and we've been really fortunate and blessed to see the continued growth of this movement that you have now been in and have led with Frank at T factor. And we were just talking on just before we went on live about how guys working through the Faith Driven Entrepreneur ministry when we started five years ago, we start off with the idea of a podcast and that's grown. And over the last several years we've been able to interview some really neat people, none more than Mark Whitaker. Nobody that has had somebody like Matt Damon play their life. By the way, before we get into what I was just going to say, how happy were you that they didn't choose Steve Buscemi or somebody else?

Mark Whitacre: I mean, she's great. He knows my identical twin, so I think they chose the right guy.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, that's right. So, I mean, that's amazing. We've never had anybody that's been played by Matt Damon on the program yesterday aren't sure. But what has happened is there's been this great movement, a guy through a whole bunch of really great ministries like T Factor in our own situation. We have these FDE groups. So over time, if you listen to this while you've understood that there are these 12 March. Unite Faith driven entrepreneurs, there's the call to create our identity in Christ faithfulness versus well-furnished, the biblical message of generosity, and they are all these common DNA values that are part of this broader movement that we're all and he factor C12 convene all these great ministries. And one of the things I love about you factor, by the way, is how you call attention to some of these other great ministries that are out there. And so one of the things that we've had is this foundational group that has been able to go through virtually with people where you can get in a cohort of 12 to 15 other faith driven entrepreneurs from around the world to look at this common DNA that makes up a Faith Driven Entrepreneur before you find yourself getting better trained to a tee factor AC C12 or a can being or somebody like that. And so we've been celebrating that it's been awesome. My hope as a recording in the studio audience is that nobody can hear the 140 pound Newfoundland that is barking ferociously at my door 24 inches away from my face. I hope that my microphone doesn't capture that.

Rusty Rueff: They can't hear it. We can, but they can't hear.

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, well, it makes you feel better. Yes, Sir John,

Henry Kaestner: I know they do. All right. That's what happens when you are recording during COVID times. So without further ado, Mark, thank you very, very much for being on the program for being willing to share your story. Some of the things that many people have seen through the movies and yet so much more to about what you're doing. A key factor. Having experienced it myself, having gone through the program and seen how world class it is, I'm going to get into why I think that, why William thinks that, why Rusty knows that to be true. We want to go ahead and get started with you, as we do with every one of our guests to get a flyover of your background. And you've got an incredible story to tell and I want you to tell it. We want to make sure that we leave enough room at the end to talk about key factor because it's so applicable and it's changing. God is using T factor to change the way that companies large and small think about bearing witness to their faith and the reason why they manufacture and distribute the products they do. And you do it so well and help people to do it better than anybody else. I've seen the practical, the theological, but then the very, very practical. It's just awesome. OK, but start us. Who is Mark Whitaker?

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, I grew up in Cincinnati area and I was a gifted student, very driven, driven. I have a bachelor's and master's from Ohio State University, a Ph.D. in biochemistry from Cornell University, and had full scholarship for eight years, the only child out of four to go to college in my family. My mom said I went, got a degree for all of them. So a very driven, especially during the time when I was at Cornell and I was at Cornell and get my Ph.D.. Starting at age 22, the average is thirty two. So I was about 10 years younger than all the other students in biochemistry. And I just remember it's when the whole biotech industry was exploding. There was a shortage of biochemists to leave biotech companies around the world, and I wasn't a Christian during that time. So I'm really sharing a story of selfish leadership, not servant leadership. I mean, this was a time of self-absorption, self focus, and all I heard during that time at Cornell was, Boy, we're going to make millions of dollars getting a Ph.D. in biochemistry. And at twenty two, I just that's all I thought about becoming CEO of one of the largest biotech or pharmaceutical companies in the world. So it's a very driven student, and I did become by the age 32. I became a divisional president of the largest biotech division really in the world of IBM Archer Daniels Midland Fermentation making ethanol 70 percent of the country's ethanol lactic acid that's in Campbell's soup citric acid. It goes into Coca-Cola and Sprite and beverages, and all these were made from fermentation, and I led that division and Adam Archer Daniels Midland, I was thirty two at that time. This would have been 1989. This would have been thirty two years ago. So this is half my life ago. But during that time, I can remember my first week working there. I was there eight years as divisional president, but during my first week, the CEO gave me a corporate jet to seven. Top executives had their own jet. I was number four, ranked executive at A-Team, number four out of thirty thousand employees. We were 70 billion revenue and we were the 56 largest company on the Fortune 500. Then in 1989, and I got obsessed with that lifestyle. Both the CEOs of my first month, he was seventy five when he moved to something smaller. Our president was sixty nine and here I was thirty two. And I tell you what I was Justin Bieber before Justin Bieber and I had the jet about the CEO's home at 30000 square foot, all eight car garage. And that became my entire life focus that I was thinking at that time in my life that there's they have it. This is it. And it was all selfish leadership, self-absorbed. I was being mentored by selfish leaders and basically, as I'm working there after a couple of years, they saw me as. Family, and they started bringing me into some of the kind of the hidden parts of the business, the international cartels, the price fixing because the two leaders above me were so much older than me. They started mentoring me to take their place and they started bringing me into the International Cartel Price Fixing Scheme, and I ended up sharing that with my wife of two years with the company. They then saw me as part of the family. So they started kind of bringing me into things they hadn't shared before. And then I shared it with my wife, and it's amazing how life changed in my early thirties, two years during the time I was at eight a.m. when my wife basically turned me into the FBI and it became the largest price fixing case in U.S. history.

Henry Kaestner: So talk to us about that because I'm familiar enough, of course, with this story. I'm fascinated by this because you're still married and happily married

Mark Whitacre: 42 years married in a miracle of God that our marriage survived.

Henry Kaestner: And just talk us through that. That must have been an enormous amount of friction and taught us about her approach, how you guys dealt with it, because this is a everybody that's a Faith Driven Entrepreneur. Not everybody is married. I should be careful here, but many of us are married and we try to check our ambition. We try to be great at being a partner with our spouse. We expect complete support and understanding. And in this case, she sought something more important than just blindly supporting what her spouse was doing and had no problem and challenging you for it. Can you just talk about that dynamic a bit?

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, and I will say this. She became a Christian age 30, so we would have been at this time in our lives. Thirty four. And she was thirty three year younger me. She was in the seventh grade and I was in the eighth grade where we met went to our proms together. So I've known her most of my life prior to this point. She would have been thirty three then myself thirty four. And I do want to make it clear she became a Christian. At 30, I became a Christian at forty six Jewish Christian 10 years before me and she did not like who I was becoming. She didn't feel like I was who she fell in love with in high school and college because she's driving a ten year old jeep and I'm driving. I have an eight car garage and I have a Ferrari and a BMW Mercedes. I would have bought her any of those cars herself, but those things didn't mean anything to her, and she saw that I had so much focus on that I was not focused on her. I wasn't focused on God at all. I wasn't focusing on her three children, three young children, and she didn't like who I was becoming. So we started having this conversation two years into the company, and she noticed that I was working even a lot more nights at this point. This would have been November 1992. And she noticed I was working late at night and I told her I said, I have to be on the phone at night because I'm talking to our competitors because eight o'clock in Decatur, Illinois, at night is eight o'clock in the morning in Japan, Singapore, South Korea. Because a lot of our competition, it ended with Southeast Asia. And she asked me, Ginger, ask me. She said, Well, why are you talking to your competition? And I told her about how I'd be a mentor if they go over this cartel. And that's when the world changed. She asked me if it was legal. And I said, Well, it's not legal, but they tell me, everybody does it. You can't be in a commodity business without doing price fixing. And then she started saying, Well, who pays for this billion dollars a year, not a million, but a billion dollars a year abroad? Because I told her that was the number and it's been going on for 12 years. She said, Well, who pays for that? I said the consumers pay for that when they go to the grocery store where they buy Kellogg's cereal or a beverage or Pillsbury or Kraft, those ingredients are price free. So I said they're pay five extra dollars, maybe out of 50. So it's not much. And then she got to her about her grandma on Social Security. Two hundred dollars a week is paying these high grocery bills because of this international cartel. And she just flat out told me she couldn't live with it, and she said she was going, Pray about it. And literally, after praying about it for about two hours, she came out. She said, Mark God led me to a decision. I'm going to turn you into the FBI and we're going to do it today. Wow. Yeah, my life changed that day, November 5th, 1992. What was your first reaction? My first reaction, I said, Ginger, I worked for a billionaire. It to be an area. Five percent of the 56 largest company in America, $70 billion company. I said this company, he's best friends with President Clinton and talks on a weekly basis with President Clinton flew to President Nixon's funeral on President Clinton's plane. I said This company will destroy us, will totally destroy us. And I also said I could go to prison for breaking antitrust laws. But I'm more concerned with the company will do to us than the government. And she said, You know what, Mark, my CEO is bigger than your CEO. And I said, Well, Ginger, who's your CEO? And she said, Jesus. And I said, I can't see or feel Jesus. But our CEO lives seven miles down the road. We're living in the home we bought. From him and they will destroy us. And she said, God will protect us. And this is what we're going to do, Mark, and we're going to do it today.

Henry Kaestner: Now, it didn't end there, either, so she continued to provide counsel and around plea agreements and things like that, and so she stayed actively involved about what she saw as principled. And so there's more to that story, too.

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, there is. I mean, that day we're sitting with the FBI for four hours. She's sitting with me. I was very hesitant, obviously, to tell them about a billion dollar fraud that's been going on for 12 years now. I was only involved for seven months because that's when I started being a mentor to take it over. So the case started, you know, decade before I even joined the company. But she started sharing all the things that I didn't tell the FBI to the FBI. And at the end of a four hour discussion with the FBI, they had Janet Reno on the phone. They had William Sessions, the director of the FBI. I mean, this became this that that time. It's now the third largest in the world. It was the largest price fixing case in the world, started by my wife's a stay at home mom. And so we had a choice that day for me to either get arrested or the fact that I was only seven months involved, something going on 12 years or be the informant. And I chose that day, November 5th, 1992, to wear a wire for the FBI instead of being arrested. And that's how I became an informant. And you did choose that day. Can you like you mentioned specific date and time? And I'm just curious, like it all happened in one day? It did, but there was no choice. I mean, with the FBI, where are you going to arrest you? You're going into a county jail or you're agreeing to wear a wire starting tomorrow? And I mean that it was that black and white, and I sure wasn't interested in being arrested. So I said, yeah, wear a wire reluctantly, and I sure didn't want to do it. But I met them at 6:00 in the morning. The next day, they shaved my chest, put microphones on my jazz tape recorder on my back. And then I end up wearing a wire for them every Monday through Friday for three years, from 1992 to 1995, three or four years every week now. And not to fast forward pieces. But, you know, ultimately, he said three years. So it came to a conclusion. Right? You know, I assume they had enough information to prosecute the case. And then there were still consequences for you, even though you have collaborated, right? Yeah. When the FBI was wired me up and there's a really detailed documentary on my website by Discovery Channel where the three real FBI agents interview with Ginger and I and and, you know, be honest with so much more accurate than the book, because it's the real agents and it shows the seriousness of the case and they talk about the FBI do in that documentary, how if I was caught wearing a wire, they would have killed me. These guys would have killed me, so I was risking my life for this. And they also talk about how I had four murders within a couple of months. They were so pressured of what I was doing. They gave me full immunity. Now is the never to go to jail, never to do one day in the prison system. And within the last few months, when they were telling me it was the last six or seven months of the case, I started thinking, Well, gosh, how am I going to keep this standard of living that I had? Who's going to hire somebody the world wire? It gets their own company for three years. One would hire a felon, a company would before they would hire someone that wore a wire against their own company. So I thought, there's no job, no position. I get all that college education. By this time, I'm thirty eight years old after wearing a wire for three years. So I looked at my stock options and looked at kind of what we had, if you will, because I knew the company was going to fire me once they knew I was the informant and I had nine million dollars in stock options and already had quite a few millions before that, too, but nine million that I could exercise in another year and a half. They were five years set of stock options and our stock price was exploding. But I knew I'm not going down exercising because I'm going to be fired. When they learned that on the informant, when the case is coming to an end and the FBI start prosecuting. So I looked at that nine million and again, after wearing a wire three years, I wasn't thinking clearly. I lost 60 pounds wearing a wire. People worked on. I had cancer. I was literally falling apart. Prison was a cakewalk compared to wearing a wire for three years. So what I did do, I went through five checks to myself for the nine million thinking that my stock options is a great defense because they owe me that I risked my life for the FBI. Sure, I'm exercising them early. I thought a jury would be sympathetic. Then if it ever came up, but I'm really taking which owed to me because this is all I'm going to have for a while. Who's going to hire somebody like I said, that wore a wire. So Revi checks for nine million, not thinking clearly. And so I end up as a result of that. The day that Adam the raid happened and 70 FBI agents raided the world headquarters of ABM and 80 learned that I was the mole the informant. They called the FBI immediately. The nine million was OK when I was with them, but once they knew that I was the enemy, they called immediately said, Hey, he's the white Knight informant. He wrote five checks to himself for nine million dollars. And so. I then became a defendant in the case and no longer just a witness. I was a witness and a defendant, not a defendant for the price fixing, but a defendant in how I manage and handle that $9 million it became and not exercising the stock option. Wow. That's how I started then becoming a target of the case and not just a witness. And how did that end? How did your defense end? In the case, I tell you to exercise your stock options. You're early. It's not a good. It's not a good defense jury. Definitely sympathetic judge. Definitely sympathetic, but you broke laws. I mean, those rules regarding the surrounding stock options and S.E.C. violations, and I broke those laws. But the FBI agents were so sympathetic. They came to our house and met with ginger and I, and they said, Ginger and Mark, we're going to do everything we can to get you the best plea deal we can get you because we know you made this poor decision under stress and we know you're looking at you're not going to be able to make a living anymore. And you were trying to take something that you thought was, you know, exercise something you thought was owed to you, which would have been owed to me if it would have been the normal course of time. You know, and I wasn't fired for being an informant whose idea of did fire me that very day when they learned I was the mole obituary. Of course. And so they went to the prosecutors and got me a six month plea deal, a Martha Stewart sentence, a deal of a lifetime. I have went to prison at age 38 and came out at thirty eight six months. And my lawyers sharing this with me, said Mark. Get 48 hours to sign it. The prosecutors and the agents were so supportive of what you did. They know you made a bad decision under pressure. They feel they should have never had you wear a wire for three years. They feel like they took you undercover too long. They saw that you were falling apart, but they wanted the evidence so bad they kept you wearing a wire. And for that, you did a six month plea agreement and Ginger begged me to sign it. And I looked at ginger and I said, Ginger, you're the reason why I'm in this mess in the first place. I had to wear a wire only because of you, ginger. And for that, I'm going to do the opposite you want me to do. And I ripped up that plea agreement, fired that lawyer again. Not a Christian during this time. I mean, this is selfish, selfish leadership, self-absorbed, self focused. And I ripped off that plea agreement, went to the courts through three years and got an eight and half year sentence instead when I had a six month sentence in my hand. Wow. I own worst enemy every step of the way. Wow, wow, wow. So you've met her a few times. You weren't a Christian during that process. Where did God get you? How did he get you? Well, I tell you when I knew I had eight and a half years to do on a 10 year sentence, there's no parole in the federal system. The judge gave me five years off for paying the $9 million back. I would have had a 15 year sentence. So that gave a 10. You get a year and a half of good behavior. There's no you get 15 percent off good behavior. There's no parole in the federal system that's been taken out since the early 80s. So I had an eight and half year sentence. I was so depressed knowing now that I could have had six months, I really even had immunity. I went from youth immunity to six months and knowing that for years that I pulled my car where those garages and tried to kill myself. And it became big news on CNN and all the national news informant largest price fixing case in history, suicide attempt. And two people read about that. First was a guy named Ian House for Raleigh, North Carolina, who was the CFO of a pharmaceutical company and also a member of CBC Christian Business Bank Connection. And he reached out to me as a stranger and I never forget in my house. And he said, Mark prison is going to be the beginning of your life and you're going to find your true self, your true purpose of your life. In this journey, you're ready to start. And I thought it was the craziest thing I ever heard. I'm getting ready to go to prison for eight and a half years. I just attempted to take my own life a month ago, hospitalized for a month, treated for post-traumatic stress disorder, wearing a wire for three years before they sent me home. Seven months before I go to prison, he's telling me this is the beginning of my life. And I remember telling Ginger that, and she fell to her knees and she said, Thank God, God sent somebody more. She said, I pray you listen to this man. I've been trying to tell you for 10 years and I prayed for you for 10 years, and I pray you listen to this man. And that's when he and House started introducing me to God disciple Elementum me. It really introduced me to God in the study called Operation Timothy a tool that TBC Christian businessmen connection connection. And then my second week in prison, a man named Chuck Colson shows that I didn't even know who Chuck Colson was at the time he read about me in The Washington Post. And he said he saw a lot of himself in reading my story himself 30 years earlier. So these showed up, and I remember I told him about it. And how's he said Mark. Have you given your life to Jesus yet? And I said, I haven't yet. And he said, Well, why? I said, Chuck, I have eight years of education, college education. I have professors at Cornell. One of them won a Nobel Prize in physics. And they said, some of the professors I had said, If you believe in God, you can't be in my class. If you believe in God, you can't be a scientist. I heard eight years of evolution, Big Bang Theory, Darwinism, all the thing you learned sciences and a secular school that there is no God. And I just can't erase that. And I'll never forget Chuck saying this my second week in prison. He said, Mark, do you think that there's a scientist, a suicide? Please, God? I said, I don't think there's any. And he started Show me book after book an article after article or some of the best known scientists that believe in God. And that's where he started breaking that down for me to break that science block.

Henry Kaestner: So the question for you is in house, is he ethnically British? Yes, he is. OK. So if you're the person that God uses to bring Mark Whitaker to faith, you know, one of the more famous Christians is out there. I mean, the whole story, I mean, it's his world famous stuff. If you're somebody who leads and brings that person, do you think that you'd be tempted to share that with others? I would,

Mark Whitacre: absolutely. I was gay and I feel God, I feel since I became a Christian. Twenty four years ago, 1998, about a year after Ian Houses disciple here, about four months after Chuck Colson disciple me, I believe God wants me to share it with the world.

Henry Kaestner: So here's what I'm getting out here is that I know Ian House and I know him pretty well. I've known him for a dozen years. We've done a lot of things together, and I've never known that he was the in-house. Don't you think that at some point in time or the interactions I've had with the end? He said, Yeah, I'm going to the premiere of the movie or we just were watching the informant again tonight on family movie night or something.

Mark Whitacre: Nothing. I know one thing he has shared on stage with me. We shared on stage. I'm sure he

Henry Kaestner: hasn't backed away from the community to see what he's doing.

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, but you don't want to talk to me about in very humble

Henry Kaestner: is his humility. It's never about him now. And you know what? I'm not that humble. If God used me to leave my record of faith, I mean, who shop on my LinkedIn, it would be on my I don't know this. I've got find a tattoo, something that's a meh I can't believe I know in. I've heard you mention Ian House before, and I just presumed, I mean, it's a relatively common name. But when you said today, Raleigh, North Carolina, I wait a second. Yeah, that's amazing. OK. That all came together back to a regularly scheduled program. We're back.

Mark Whitacre: I want to pause for once that because it is always the most staggering part when I hear your story mark of just, you know, and I feel like it's in a lot of our stories. There's a person, right? There's a person that heard God's voice and they listened and they acted. And that's both for salvation and for entrepreneurship. I think it's both right. I mean, all of these stories, whether it's God calling you to do something in entrepreneurship or God calling you to go talk to someone about himself. I'm always staggered that you can narrow down to Ian. You can narrow it down to Chuck and then hear Chuck read a newspaper article and he can't thought of any. And what do you do for free? And they could have thought I should reach out to that guy. That would be fun. Maybe I'll talk to him. But they didn't just think it, because I'm sure a lot of people read that newspaper article and thought it and those two took it and did it. And that's a trait of great evangelists. It's a trait of great entrepreneurs. I know I have that person in my life. Daniel is like the guy that just didn't stop, you know, and he just stayed with me anyway. I just want to pause on that for a second, just the power of one person listening to God's voice and taking action on it. I mean, to the point where we look back and we both got interviewed a lot when the movie came out in 09. It's not a Christian movie. It ends with us going to prison. It doesn't show the last twenty five years of our journey. The director was an atheist, so he wasn't interested in the faith journey. But I will tell you this we get asked often, and I remember my wife on CBS News and I was being interviewed in California and I was with Matt Damon, and Ginger was being interviewed in New York. And they asked her, Well, what would have happened if your husband signed the six month plea agreement? She said, I was so mad. She said during that time, it was the only time in my life I wanted to kill. Divorce wasn't an option. Murder was, and I wanted the killing for not signing that. But she said, looking back all those decades that we all feel mark her or adult children now. Thank God, I didn't sign that six month sentence because I would have never listened to Ian Allison, Chuck Colson with a six month sentence that I needed to be broken. I needed to be at the end of myself and eight and a half year sentence put you at the end of yourself. I bet. Do we think God now that I did because I would have never listened to Ian if he showed up? I had six months. I would have thought, Boy, six months, I'm out of here. I don't need to hear what you got to say, but eight and half years you're looking for hope, your broken parole.

Rusty Rueff: So you have talked about ego and greed as being drivers here. I'm curious. I mean, when all this started and you're rocketing up and an ego and greed or, you know, are the drivers and you get this first glimpse of this is wrong. I'm going to make the presumption that you knew it was

Mark Whitacre: wrong or you learned it was wrong.

Rusty Rueff: Is ego and greed being the drivers? Were there other points in your life before where you might have said, Hmm, this is wrong, but I think I'm going to do it any way I wanna do anything. And what I'm getting at Marc is that, you know, the old adage is the person who robs the bank, you know, that's not the first stuff they've ever done. Right, that there's been a path.

Mark Whitacre: I will say this. And Ginger would say this is no me since I was in eighth grade and other people that know me, I would not have taken an apple from a neighbor that even the company I was with before the M two years in New York, for years in Germany, a company called Rezvani. And I was vice president of acquisitions and mergers in Germany. It was West Germany at that time. But Frankfurt, Germany now and very ethical mentors. I was literally being groomed to do the right thing, and then we were doing a joint venture with ABM and I got to meet the CEO and the CEO of ADL by the position I had by doing this joint venture. And eventually, the CEO said, Well, why don't you come work for us at ABM? You won't have all this bureaucracy. And I said, I'm six years there to in New York or in Germany. I can't imagine leaving this company. And then he started telling me what he would offer, and it was about nine fold higher. You know, he asked me where my journey and I said, it's about three hundred and fifty thousand dollars if you add up the stock options, bonuses and total compensation in 1989. He said, Mark, I give you a three hundred fifty thousand dollar base salary, but I give you stock options and bonuses that will take you to $3 million a year instead of three hundred fifty thousand a year. And I said, Where do I sign after I spend an hour with him telling him I wouldn't? There's no way I would leave this company. And then I told my wife, removed from Frankfurt to Decatur, Illinois, and she said, Why? Why would we do that? And she said, You didn't do it just for the money, did you? So I said, it's a great opportunity. So we moved to the Cater, where I became divisional president of ABM and the first two years, I think very I mean, I think it was we're on a very ethical track. And one day the vice chairman came back and he gave me a $100000 check, April 90 to $100000 check and twenty five thousand shares of stock, and that it was not an option. It was a warrant. So it was about a million dollars that day, and it wasn't a normal performance review. So I thought it was kind of odd that I'm getting this, but I was, you know, I wouldn't go chasing down to give it back. And about an hour later, he came back and he said, Mark, we see you as family now. We're going to start bringing you into some things you haven't seen. And he started, Tell me about the cartel that they're running. And I said, Well, that's not legal. You can't do that. And he starts saying, mark these laws that the politicians put on the books in the late eighteen hundreds anti-trust laws. They know nothing about business. Those politicians, this law should be in the books. You can't be in the commodity business without doing this. And I started to listen to that story and I started rationalizing thinking, this is the way business is really done, and I start thinking he's vice chairman and been there over 30 years. I'm still only a few years from get my Ph.D. at Cornell. They know a lot more than me. I felt I wanted to continue to move up the corporate ladder so bad I stepped in it and started rationalizing it. And that's what I got to the fork in the road and my life changed. Right? I should've walked away, but I did.

Rusty Rueff: Yeah. So I hear. OK, so there's a line in there. You know, I wanted it so bad. Yeah, right? I wanted it so bad. And so, you know, entrepreneurs, we want it so bad, right? We give up so much for the success of our venture and all those things. And when success comes when the definition of winning of the world, you know, we get fed. You know, I wanted so bad. Now I want more. So ego and greed can become all consuming. So talk to our listeners about, you know, how to shield ourselves from ego and greed. And you know, the lesson that you've learned not only by turning your life over to God, but how do you how to deal with that because it just doesn't just go away?

Mark Whitacre: Yeah. Well, I tell you how God's love me. You got to pray every morning and you got to pray, say, God, keep me out of my own way and be spirit led in all the decisions you make. But what was life changing for me in prison my first year becoming a Christian, but I have an eight years left a prison and Chuck Colson said, Well, now what are you going to do with your life? He's disciple me. Visit me a day a month on a Saturday spending time with me and mentor me and poured into me. And he says, Mark, what are you going to do with your life? And I said, I don't know what I can do in prison for eight years. And he said, Well, Mark, what about what we're going through? How about like, I'm just like when you? Where in the world are people more helpless and hopeless than federal prison? What about you discipline them? You know, Matthew, 28 19, plant seeds second, Timothy to do one on one discipleship. What about evangelism and discipleship for you? Mark within the prison system? And that's when I started discipline guys and pretty $20 a month. I'm already in prison after three million a year for eight years. I'm 20 dollars a month, three and a half years, and I started disciplined guys helped them get their GEDs. Some of them learn how to read, and I will tell you something. Rusty. Those become some of the most productive years of my life in federal prison, and that's what changed my life when I got out. Now, 16 years ago, I saw how rewarding it was to serve others, and it wasn't rewarding being a selfish leader.

Rusty Rueff: Hmm, that's good. And is that question? But that may be, you know, one of the best antidotes to ego and greed that one can have, which is to turn it over. First of all, to the Lord and secondly, then to begin to serve others because it's very hard to hang on to ego and greed when you're serving others.

Henry Kaestner: So, Marc, away, you're serving others is through your leadership the T factor, and I've got a full head of steam about to you factor because I went through it about four weeks ago and it was just so well done. There are a number of people who are listening to podcasts who are, if they're like me, had made presumptions for quite some time that you've got to be really, really, really super careful about sharing your faith in the workplace. And so careful, in fact, that you probably shouldn't do it. You should probably just air on the side of not doing it. Maybe throw some breadcrumbs in there. Maybe you can hire a chaplain, but you know, gangsters just haven't integrated into your story and into the activities you do. You're better off not doing it because surely there must be laws against it. What I loved about T factor was your ability to kind of go through all of that and not just a challenge like, hey, you know, you're not man enough or woman enough to just kind of persevere a man's person enough to kind of persevere that and your bunch of theological went, No, you had a very practical way towards approaching how to do it legally when simply just tell us about T factor, tell us about the ministry, how it started and then practically what an engagement with T factor looks like.

Mark Whitacre: Well, the main purpose of two factors to transform workplace cultures around the world for good, for God and for growth. And it started 22 years ago where a 19 year old company, a Coca-Cola consolidated, where the bottling side were a different company than Coca-Cola Company in Atlanta. And this started 22 years ago with our CEO and chairman Frank Harrison and Frank Harris, and started integrating faith and work 22 years ago. It started with chaplaincy at one of our plant sites. Now we have chaplaincy at 102 blast sites, and then we started discipleship and mentoring about 10 years ago, using the program by Reggie Campbell called Radical Mentor, and now we are doing that for 10 years.

Henry Kaestner: Reggie just passed away last year, and what an incredible man again.

Mark Whitacre: And Kevin Harris, who replaced him, a wonderful guy to just a wonderful ministry. And we started prayer groups twenty two years ago and Bible studies. We changed our purpose date my daughter, God, and all we do by serving others and pursue excellence and grow profitably. When it is that to honor God and all we do and everything we do and what we cherish to factories is where is kind of the outward expression of what we're doing internally. We share for 22 years in our lawyer share that it's legal as long as you don't require someone to see a chaplain or to join a Bible study that needs to be optional, they need to be able to volunteer for it. You can't requires our lawyers. Chair Frank Harrison chairs the visually add. Twenty years ago, our CEO David cochairs about how we execute and how we implement it within our organization. And then we have others VP of H.R. and in our senior VP and vice chairman of Giving. They share and what we do. We share that you can do all. We're a public company on the Nasdaq. You know, we have 16000 employees, teammates and you can do all of this legally. You can have a purpose statement to honor God in all you do. You can have Bible studies, prayer groups, chaplaincy, radical mentoring or discipleship. All these things we have and you could do it all legally. And not only should you do it for God to honor him. It's also good for your business. It also impacts retention rates and capitalism. And it's just good for your culture. People love to bring their whole self to work. And I've met non-Christians in the company and they say, Mark, I love what we do. They say that some of them aren't even a Christian, but they say they love the environment. They love a company that gives in the community where they're plant side is where they're working, that they love a supervisor, they love serving them and being innovative for them and help develop them. So even the non-Christians love it, but it's also planting seeds. These non-Christians and some of them are going to become Christians through this journey.

Henry Kaestner: Yeah, and you talk about how you had the different executives within a company. What I love also is that you have your council and attorney go ahead and go through and just kept praying, Well, what can you do this? Can you do this in just the way you presented? All of a sudden you walk away from it. It's like, Oh my goodness, now I have no excuses. And yet not that I'm guilted into it, but now I can just I can be more of my true self in a way that I really love on my employees. And when I look at Coca-Cola bottlings, stock price, when I look at your employee retention because you talk about it, it's not just a Christian ministry that's a big core of it, but it's also for growth the way that you take what you have and you've been able to grow so much because you've got this foundation of culture that's based on excellence and giving and loving on your employees, that includes spiritual integration. Now you've got this platform for growth. And so that's all part of it. It's not a prosperity gospel, but all of a sudden you spend the day with T factor, and actually it works out to be four or five hours. You get a sense of that's a blueprint for growth that I can follow, and it happens not at the expense of these biblical values, but because of them.

Mark Whitacre: Absolutely. And we'd love to invite we do them each quarter. We have two hundred and fifty leaders at each event, the virtual event, and we love to invite your audience to join us at T factor outstanding. And if I just throw another recommendation is incredible. I've gone through it twice, so it's something you can always learn something new.

Henry Kaestner: You go through it because they send a gift basket of Coca-Cola products ahead of time.

Mark Whitacre: I do enjoy the gift basket. It's no comment on whether or not that's the reason I got through advice. But the trail mix and the free coke is not a bad thing, and to tell my water if there's any water, but to tell my wife I have to drink it, to go to an event is it's good. It's good for my. It's good for a marriage, it's good for my soul. So I will accept that. But it's amazing. I'd love a Henry mentioned about the tactical piece at the end, right? It's not just pie in the sky hopefulness. Hey, let's get together and hope. Hey, let's get really tactical onto. And I think even I forget the exact stat. I'm sure you know it, but 70, some odd percent, 90 some odd percent of people make one significant change after going to TV, or average about 68 percent within 90 days, 68 percent of our attendees do something different, integrating something they learned from Teen Factor that they didn't do before right, which is an incredibly high percentage, right? We've all gone to conferences. We all go to things to actually like, be presented with tactical practical solutions to something that can you can implement is amazing. So love the organization, you know, if anyone needs to know more. Obviously, Henry and I've been through it, we can tell you more, and I'm sure Mark would love to tell you more, too. And Melissa as well. Yeah, absolutely. Before we come to a close, everything else about T factor, how to get in touch with you guys, or how to understand more about the program that you want to share with our audience. Well, the best way you know is my email addresses and if you post anywhere, but it's marked out. Whitaker at Coke Consolidated Kerry Consolidated dot com mark dot whitaker, Debbie Ascari. But feel free to share that email address and love to invite them to a future event. We do in March, June, September and December each quarter and their international. We've got about 20 percent of our audience from outside of the country. But I do want to emphasize what Henry said it is to honor God and all we do to serve others, pursue excellence and grow profitably. So it does have growth in there. But it's by serving others where people love to come to work and they're motivated and they love to be part of that culture and therefore it's a more productive culture. That's amazing. And I know prior to the pandemic it was in person. I know the quarterly ones are on Zoom now. Is it going to stay virtual or will there be an in-person event coming back or are you still here? We're looking for tours probably stand more virtual. We may do some in-person someday only because we're 20 percent international. We had no international and we're in-person. And I tell you what, this past year we had 47 of the Fortune 500 companies. Twenty six of the Fortune 100 companies and six of the Fortune 10 companies attend that. We never had any of those when it was in-person because those companies are forming Christian IRGC. It may not be a faith based company like a Hobby Lobby or Chick-Fil-A or what we're talking about with Consolidated, but they do have a Christian ERG where they do have this group that's growing organically within those companies and they take what they learned to factor and they put in Facebook and Google and ExxonMobil and General Electric and so on. So it's amazing. That was amazing even in the larger companies. And if you work in any of those companies too, you know, we've had I know we've had Christian Rico, we've had said Morente, the leads of apples and Salesforce employee resource groups and their amazing outlets to find common community and well, thank you, obviously for spending time with us and for coming to join us. One of the things we love to do at the end of every episode is to invite God's word into the discussion. Although it's been a part of it, we want to be distinct on that and say, you know, we love seeing how God's word transcends our guests and our listeners. And so we would invite you to share something that is stirring in your heart from God's word could be something you read this morning could be something you've meditated on your whole life. But we would love to have that invitation, and we love seeing how his words always live and always been. Yeah, I tell you, it's been heavy on my heart is really clashing. 323 Whatever you do do with your wholehearted like you working for the Lord and not for man. And I do believe that I believe there's so many of us as Christians that I was one of those at one time. You turn that switch off on Monday morning and I take your faith to work with you. The God really wants to be included in your life every minute of our life or family life, our work life or private life. No matter if you're an Uber, a post office, God wants to be in all parts of our life. I do want to really emphasize that that it should be God included every minute of our life, including our work where we spend most of our time and also want to say this. I do feel by being disciple by in-house and then by chuckles and goes to and the impact that's on my life. And I've been disciplined guys, also starting in prison and now have five Timothy's now that I'm disabling. So for twenty four years, I've been decided and I do feel that we always need a mentor in our life. For our lifetime. And we should be mentoring someone else. I really feel strong, I really believe that continuity to do where Paul was born into Timothy, I believe we need that in our lifetime. Be a mentor and also decide when someone else or selling Amen. What a great challenge to finish with the mark. Just so grateful for you taking the time out of your day to share your story. It sounds like there's documentary film we'll link to. Of course, we'll link to the Matt Damon film as well, although I'm sure the man in the documentary is better looking. But you know we can work through that. We can take an audience full. But grateful for you, Greg, for your story. Grateful for your faithfulness in marketplace. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.