Is it possible to have a healthy family while building a successful business? That’s the question at the heart of this week’s episode with Ben and Liz Bohannon of Sseko Designs. Their business began as a way to generate income for high-potential, talented young women in Uganda to continue on to university. Since then, it’s grown rapidly from a Shark Tank phenomenon to a global success. Hear how Ben and Liz are navigating the world of global business while still managing to focus on their home, their marriage, and their family.

So many times we hear the story of a business being started by one person. But beneath it we know that any business is a tremendous effort and is a family adventure. That’s certainly the case of Sseko designs. The story of Sseko closely follows the story of Ben and Liz’s relationship. From meeting in college, to Liz’s move to Uganda, everything they’ve experienced has happened together. So, how do they balance building their business and strengthening their marriage? And what boundaries do they put in place to keep both areas of their life healthy and growing?

You’ll find the answers to both these questions in this week’s episode, along with some fun stories and a sound that every marriage thrives on—laughter.

Useful Links:

Every Moment Holy

The Sseko Story Video

Beginner’s Pluck by Liz Bohannon

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

*Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

 

Henry [00:03:22] Welcome to the part of the show. So glad to have you guys with us. Many times we hear the story of a business being started by one person. But beneath it, we know that any business is a tremendous effort and is a family venture. In your case, it really is a family adventure. Not only were you each encouragements to each other in your entrepreneurial journey, it was your combined entrepreneurial journey. And so we'd love to spend some time with you today and unpack that and understand the business that you have created through God and the relationship that continues to evolve. So we would love for you to share with our audience the Saco story. Thank you very much for being with us.

 

Liz [00:04:01] Thanks so much for having us. We're excited to be here.

 

Ben [00:04:04] And this is great. Thanks Henry.

 

Liz [00:04:05] And so I'll start with Ben and I's origin story. We'll start with the timeline that we met in university. We were both leading our lives together, so we were on the same team or really their friends in ministry together and kind of built this really great friendship, both of us, for dating other people.

 

[00:04:22] And then that stopped. And we started out a very average way, not as though we were dating. And I was living in St. Louis, finishing up my master's degree. And Ben was in Kansas City and his first full time job.

 

Ben [00:04:42] It's important really to even talk about from a business origin story listener. Neither one of us envisioned ourselves or thought of ourselves as entrepreneurs, especially in college. We were leading young life. We were both either. I was kind of on the ministry track. Liz was very much on the nonprofit and eventually journalism track. I mean, we can remember like sitting on her front porch talking about I can do is memorize like trying to like. So what it would be like to be in a relationship with me, I was like, you need to know that we're not gonna be an easy life with all this suffering. But it was very much.

 

Liz [00:05:16] Alive in the sense of like seeing Claiborne's vow of poverty. Yeah.

 

Ben [00:05:20] Yeah. Yeah.

 

Liz [00:05:21] Yep. Yeah. Yeah. We worry, too. Not only were we not interested in business, I would say we both kind of share an ideological distaste for kind of this sense that it's like, hey, if we are called to do good things in the world, we are out there and we're in ministry and we're in nonprofit and we're doing advocacy work or social work or journalism.

 

Ben [00:05:41] So much to what we were. Robley, talk to me again. For others in the church youth, your peer church ministry and I mean obviously very limited experience as a 20 year old, but we just didn't have a vision for.

 

Liz [00:05:52] We did not have models of Christian entrepreneurs anyway. I graduated with a journalism degree and moved to East Africa, really, because I realized that throughout university I had this growing interest and passion for issues that were facing women and girls who lived across the globe, living in extreme poverty and in conflict and post-conflict zones and had this kind of come to Jesus moment. Right after I graduated from college, I had landed this great job at a corporate communications firm that had this moment where I realized that I said I was really passionate, quote unquote, passionate about these issues. But the reality is, I didn't know a single girl who had grown up in extreme poverty or in conflict and really had this moment where I was like, you know, you can keep saying you care about this best, but so long as your life, your community, your friendships, your relationships are completely untouched by the reality that you say you care so much about, the likelihood is that idealism and passion and fervor of your college days will most likely slow down and eventually come to a close. And unless you have really built a life that is affected by on a relational level, these issues. I don't know how long this, quote, ideological passion is going to carry you. And so I move to Uganda. Ben and I had a tearful goodbye and I moved to Uganda and really long story short, moved my journalism degree, didn't have a job, wasn't even volunteering. Like literally just showed up with this idea. I'm here to make friends and to build community and to learn as much as possible, not from kind of these top down sources of the Gates Foundation or, you know, the World Bank about these issues, but really just on the ground from women and girls who had been affected by it. And throughout that journey of kind of traveling across these on it and meeting tons of different people and organizations that I ended up meeting twenty five of the smartest girls in the entire country, they were getting ready to graduate from a college prep program. And in Uganda, there's a nine month gap between high school and university. So these young women were getting ready to graduate from high school. They were testing into college. Top five percent of students in the country. But all of them were going to go back home to their villages during that nine month gap and face a couple of challenges. One, extreme social pressure to get married, start having kids and to say we're going to a really hard time finding a job and actually earning money to pay for college tuition. And so all of a sudden, this kind of like macro issue of women and girls and gender inequality became super narrow. It was like twenty five girls help figure out how to bridge the gap. For twenty five young women. And because I was an American in Africa and didn't really know any better, and the only narrative that I had heard was consistent with this. I was like, oh, my gosh, like, we've got to start a charity, a nonprofit, some sort of sponsorship program.

 

[00:08:44] And the more I walked down that path and the more I just invited my friends and community and local Ugandan leaders into that conversation, started hearing some really interesting and unexpected things about how just the challenge that these young women are facing.

 

[00:08:59] Not being able to find jobs, kind of overall economic development and opportunity. And I really had this moment where my whole world turned upside down or it was like, oh, my gosh, what you're talking about sounds a lot like just starting a business. But again, I'm coming from this paradigm that it's like now if you want to do something good in the world, you start a charity. And so my whole world totally turned upside down. My whole paradigm shifted as I started thinking about this concept of using a marketplace solution to solve this problem that typically is pretty relegated to kind of a nonprofit social sector. And so I went down that path and started a chicken farm in that field pretty quickly. And I realized that I just didn't didn't light a fire inside of me.

 

Henry [00:09:42] I'm curious about that. So you've decided that there's a marketplace opportunity. What was your first lesson of failure?

 

Liz [00:09:48] In business? The answer is simply scale. You know, it was so low level. I had no access to capital. I knew whatever I was going to do, I was going to have to like bootstrap with, you know, babysitting money that I earned during college. And a quick kind of assessment was like with a margin on chickens and chicken eggs is pretty low. It's something that you just have to do. And it was the idea was that we would sell to the local market. The margin was really low. So the scale has to be pretty enormous in order for it to actually start making sense. And I had promised three young women that I would help get them from high school to university. And you just cannot run a profitable chicken farm with three workers at the scale and no access to capital. So that's the business reason. Yeah, a personal reason is it turns out I hate chickens.

 

[00:10:37] You know, I tell people all the time that I think a lot of really passionate people think that if they believe in. Mission of the company or the organization. What they are doing on a day-To-Day basis doesn't matter because the mission is so cool. You know, I interview people all the time that are like I do anything. I would take any role. And the reality is not true. Because you were created something kind of like your spirit on fire. There is a way that your mind is wired. There is something you're specifically good at. And I just believe that if you're not tapping into that on a day to day basis, then long term, all of the gusto and passion for the big vision. It just it's not sustainable. And so for me, chicken is very much. So that was my first thought. I'm just like, I'm so passionate about this mission. But I would wake up in the morning and just it did not light a fire inside of my thoughts. I was like, OK, chickens, I am not the girl for this job. And then, you know, naturally, from chickens iterated in to fashion, just pretty par for the course. I actually wasn't interested in fashion at all, but had made a pair of sandals when I was in college, literally her out of my like a.. Fashion. The man like I'm gonna make my own clothes and had to made a pair of flip flops that didn't flop, which I thought was pretty clever. And so fast forward a few years and I'm in Uganda literally. Now I just have this like kind of interesting set of parameters where it's like, OK. I realized that in the end it's something that we could cash-flow at a small scale.

 

[00:12:00] The margins needed to be a lot higher. Therefore, I was like a fading and an export product. So know our cost of goods and the delta between the cost of goods and what I think I could sell them for could be greater needs to be something relatively right that we could ship. It needs to be something relatively low skill and something that we could teach 19 year old women to make relatively quickly because we only have eight months with them before they head on university. So I really kind of like this reverse engineer. I took all of the parameters of the problem and then figured out, OK, what kind of checks off these boxes. And honestly, it was like, OK, chicken, they're gross. Surely we do better than that. But I wasn't passionate about fashion by any means. Now, fast-forward 10 years later and I still run our creative direction and lead all of our product in product has become something that I am crazy passionate about. It isn't just a means to an ends anymore.

 

[00:12:50] But one of the parts of my story that I really try to encourage other entrepreneurs with is I think it's really wise to be very open to being surprised about what that how is that actually makes you come alive. I think a lot of times we buy this false narrative that like we're born with this passion inside of us. And ever since I was a little kid, I was passionate about this thing. And for some people, I think that's true. But for a lot of people, it's not. And I think it leads to people like myself that never would if that I was passionate about fashion, really discouraged. And I think it's a lot more helpful to think about, you know, we're on this journey and this question. We get to follow these really interesting leads and kind of pick up on these hints along the way. But ultimately, we don't know what brings us alive until we just freakin go and try to do it.

 

Ben [00:13:37] I love. I actually feel like this has been something that's an interesting religion because we will sit in rooms and we'll hear entrepreneurs talk about everybody kind of wants to hear the entrepreneur talk about like they were five years old and they walked in and they started selling something or they had this convention and creation. And I think, well, listen, I have always had a unique kind of entrepreneurial spark that's probably born into more of leadership than kind of building a business. It's fun to see through curiosity. And I think staying open and we've kind of found that within ourselves. But it just wasn't there. Maybe on day one or when we were five.

 

William [00:14:13] I totally agree with that. I feel like that's something that feel like the world's like coming alive to. So appreciate you telling that story. I feel like people are just starting to realize that, you know, it turns out if you spend a lot of time doing something, you like it more. Right. And some things get it and you learn more about it. And then you realize you're an expert at and you realize you're really good at it. And then, oh, well, yeah. Turns out I was passion, big buzzword, but interested in this. And it's more interesting today than it was before. Right. And so I really appreciate you both bringing that up. And one of the things I'd love to turn to is you kind of went on this journey together, right? You sort of went on this journey as you were starting a company, as you were getting married, as you had children. Could you walk us through that maybe level, set the audience a little bit? What does your world look like today? How do you balance your roles at the company? What do you both do? How do you balance your roles in the family? What is your family look like? Just level set the entrepreneurial journey and where God has you right now.

 

Ben [00:15:05] Yeah, well, let's start today and we'll kind of go backwards. So we're 10 years into Saco. So we actually celebrate 10 years in July, which is kind of insane. I don't know that.

 

Liz [00:15:15] In year company anniversary and wedding anniversary would come.

 

Ben [00:15:20] We celebrate our company anniversary about a month after our marriage anniversary, which I think was maybe for the setting. But, you know, wasn't I've been married for 10 years.

 

[00:15:29] My father in law in his wedding toast pitched our business to our 250 guests at our wedding, basically begging them to buy products from us so that we wouldn't be homeless. So 10 years later. We do have a home. Which is nice. We have two kids and we have a nine month old and an almost three year old, and that's definitely been a new journey for Lizanne I. As we are both fully in the business, we kind of share the title as he lives very much plays the visionary role. I am kind of would call it integrator and operator is. We have worked really hard out there over the last 10 years to figure out what are the roles that we play in the business and how do we do that? How do we support one another? But it's been so crucial for us to identify what one another are gifted at and good at and kind of give each other the freedom and space to run in our own lanes. But I would say literally today we spent probably 20 to 30 minutes just figuring out how Liz's first book comes out in October of this year. And it's going to be a really big kind of fall for us. So we're thinking through, hey, as entrepreneurs, as people who run this company, how do we spend eight to 10 weeks on the road? When you have two little kids and as a husband and wife, we were both really involved in the business. We take on additional complexity because we know that it's better for both of us, that we both are fully engaged in the business and trying to figure out like, okay. Can you travel here and you travel here and maybe you can find somebody to come with us or should we have parents come with us? There is so many puzzle pieces that you have to put together when both of you are working and especially when you're both working on the same problem together. But there's also this beautiful part of it where it's really fun to think about, like, OK, Liz is going to be speaking at the Global Leadership Summit and are we gonna bring our kids to that? And they are going to get to see that. Oh, my gosh. Wouldn't it be amazing for Liz's mom to be there and get to see that moment and to know that I'm alongside her as her partner and her husband in these really big moments?

 

[00:17:30] I think that's the thing for us. Over these last 10 years, we probably take for granted as a married couple that we are literally in every important moment in our careers. The other one is along side.

 

Liz [00:17:41] It's not like I'm imagining things where we enter like a home and talking about it. It's like, oh, you heard that conversation go down. Like, you know, I had a hard conversation with an employee last week and then within the other room that doesn't have great time protection with another employee. And, you know, it's just amazing that it's like he basically overheard that. So when he comes out, it's like not only am I just hearing what you're saying. I witnessed that, witnessed the hard things, witnessed the stressful things. But then it's also like another level, I think, of respect and admiration that comes out of that. I get to see Ben in his operating space where his guests are coming to life and where he's doing something that I don't feel particularly gifted or skilled in. And I can kind of sit back and watch it. It's one thing I think to know from afar that your partner is really gifted and that they're like doing all this often that they can get in that day in and day out. Witness that. To me, it builds a lot of respect, admiration. And then I think also probably more so when it's hard staff intimacy because you're kind of sharing in that together.

 

Ben [00:18:42] Yeah, there's a few things that I love more, though, than getting to watch my partner, my wife be onstage or walk into a room to pitch and just know that she's going to completely dominate. There's like there's deep excitement and admiration that I have for her. But a way that I get to see her in her element. I honestly can imagine not having that as a man with the feeling that she would never make it.

 

Liz [00:19:06] It's a very foreign to us that there are a couple of that come home at the end of the day and say, how is your day?

 

Rusty [00:19:12] So how do you. It's the flip side of that. It sounds like you've figured this out. But on the flip side of it, how do you keep from work becoming all consuming, almost like becoming the thing that could distract you away from the other things, whether it be family or God or other friends? Where do you build your guardrails?

 

Ben [00:19:31] Yeah, well, I can say there has been a lot of intention in Lozano's life from really the beginning to make sure that we built those guardrails. So when we really launched Saco as a couple, being both of us full time. So Liz had been working on it for about a year and a half and I had been working full time in Kansas City. And we got to a point where we were like, okay, it's not sustainable for us to not do this together. Let's do it. We went on a six month road trip around the US to essentially launch the company and we were selling into retailers at that point. So we packed up our car. We went city to city. We slept in our cars, slept in people's homes that just we met that day or that week or that our friends introduced us to. And part of that trip was finding the city that we wanted to live in post the trip in. One of the key things for us was what is a city and what's a place that we feel like will help us have a thriving life outside of work. And we're sitting in Portland, Oregon today because we really felt like one of the key things here was it felt like there was one a community of people that were pursuing the Lord that we were really excited by. Invited us into their lives. When we came, we were here for a couple of weeks. They opened their home to us. They invited us to the gathering. They kind of talked about other things that they were doing in the city or around the world. And we were really intrigued by being in an intentional community of people. And then, too, and I think this is something that's been deeply important for Lizanne. I is we're surrounded by things that speak to our lives that are at work. So for me, it's the mountains, it's the ocean, it's being outdoors. And I think for us having really quick excuses to not be working, we would default towards work. I think if we were in a city that didn't have easier access to things that we wanted, that we were also passionate about. So it's been really like I think from almost like day one of us working together, we were intentional about finding a space in an environment that would enable that.

 

Liz [00:21:33] We also have a rule that if we are outside of office hours in one of us has a work site, which both of us do all the time. Just kind of how we're wired into change that feels like going against nature in a way that would be exhausting. And so instead we kind of have this practice of if I have a work site in it is outside of office hours, I have to ask permission to talk about that before I just start laying out this idea, this thought or this problem that I have. And the other person always, always, always has the opportunity to say, not right now. So I would say, hey, dad, I've a work site. Can I share it with you? And he gets to decide, am I in a place emotionally like where I want to get into that? There's a feel like a good use of our time right now. And then we definitely have places where we don't you know, when we go out on dates, it's like a general rule. We don't talk about business. If we're doing anything that feels like it's kind of more marriage focus when we're laying in bed at night and falling asleep like so we have these kind of rules of places and spaces within our home and within our relationship where we do try to protect.

 

Ben [00:22:35] And it's so easy to cheat on that because we both love the work that we write. It's a creative, it's fun, it's energetic. But you really do have to honor that space. The third thing that we've done is make sure that we have relationships in our life that are outside of our entrepreneurial circles. And in some ways, we kind of wish that we were maybe more embedded into a group of entrepreneurs. But listen, I have an intentional community that we live in in Portland where we bought basically three or four houses that are all touch each other and we all bought houses at the same time with our friends. And none of those friends are entrepreneurs.

 

Liz [00:23:10] No, they're all like have the most stable jobs that don't have no interest in fashion, aren't on social media. So on the one hand, it to me, like these people, they just don't care. They care about what we're doing because they care about us. But like the metrics and the groves and all of these things that it's so easy for entrepreneurs to get caught up in said this is where my value comes from. We have this incredibly grounding community that's like, what's that? You know, when I'm like, oh, we're like trying to raise money, my friend, if you like, telling us you're trying to raise like three hundred dollars, I'm like now, you know.

 

Rusty [00:23:44] And so, yeah, that's great. I'm not gonna let you get off the hook and say, hey, Ben Ali's got the perfect marriage. You know, they always agree on everything. What do you do when you disagree?

 

Liz [00:23:57] We are over communicators, I think, to a fault in the sense of when we disagree. I think our saving grace and let's be very honest, like our marriage is not the weight of conflict. And I think we have more opportunity in a 12 hour work day. There's so much we get up against. We have so many things we can disagree on. There's so much I mean, running a company, all of your worst parts get exposed, right? Your insecurity, your ego, your pride, your shortsightedness, whatever it is. And when we dip into those kind of shadow sides of ourselves, because we work together, oftentimes that affects our partners, our partner, in a really difficult way. So I would say we're just relentless about reconciliation and relentless about not feeling feelings that don't get communicated and put out onto the table and that we just normal life doesn't really continue until we've reconciled and we've gotten better at it over the years. But there's still conflict that it's like I wish that should have taken five minutes to resolve. And here we are three hours into it, like it's eleven o'clock at night with both when to go to bed. But I think that that would be the biggest thing. And then touching the bed point, I think for us, this community is having people, men and women we meet separately with literally every single week or so committed to these friendships. And a big part of what we both talk about is our marriages and having no secrets and kind of having a place where when we are struggling, we have kind of these grounding sounding boards that we get to be honest with and they get to kind of speak and reflect true back to us. So we don't start to kind of believe the stories that we're making up about one another are hugely important things. And I mean, we share.

 

Ben [00:25:41] It's interesting. I would say one of the. Things that we've learned in this is through lots of iterations is, you know, this commitment to reconciliation sometimes doesn't get to happen.

 

[00:25:51] I'm kind of speaking specifically as an entrepreneur and as someone who runs their company with their wife is sometimes that doesn't get to happen in the moment. I can think back to our road trip and I swear, listen, I would drive to a new city, would drive over to someone's house that night. We're going to go share the story of how we started our company. Somehow it's like right before we're getting ready to walk into this event with 50 people, some fight over something that we're not in agreement on. And you have to walk into a meeting and you have to know that like, hey, part of the reason that they're there is they want to hear the story of the two of you and they want to hear it. How what is it like to run a company together? And I think for Lizanne, I learning how to balance that as an entrepreneur.

 

[00:26:34] You don't you don't get there's not necessarily a perfect time, but it's the next closest time has been something that we've had to build in to our life. And I'd like to say that that never happens. But truly, like, we've just had to learn through iteration that it's like where there's a deep, deep commitment to reconciliation. But knowing sometimes, like, man, I have to walk in and I have to go pitch a room and that I don't feel great about that, but I know that I have to do it. And we've worked through that over and over again. Again, knowing that one another that we deeply loving to each other and that we're deeply committed to reconciling that kind of muscle gets built up over time.

 

Rusty [00:27:08] I think that's fantastic for our entrepreneurs who are listening, who have co-founders. They should be taking notes and not coming out saying that they should get married or say it's all right. They should be behind in other situations. Could be right. But this idea of reconciliation and over communicating and a lot of the decibels that you've adopted are not too similar to the same challenges that co-founders have. They just don't have to have the same last name or cohabitate, you know. So I think that that's really great.

 

Ben [00:27:39] It's one of the interesting things that we say. So, you know, listen, I have raised a few rounds of capital. And as we come out to pitch investors, we've had a few rooms that have just blatantly said we don't invest in married co-founders. And we've always found it to be interesting because we feel like to your guys point that any co-founders are going to have conflicts and we feel like it's a true benefit to know that we have a commitment from the beginning that pre-dates the business that we've said, hey, we're together and we're fairly prebate, but that, you know, we're committed beyond. Do we think this is a good idea or do we have the same strategic vision for this company? But we really want to make it happen. And we felt like it's been a huge benefit as co-founders.

 

William [00:28:26] That's amazing. Thanks so much for sharing. As we come to a close, I'd love to bring our listeners up to where God has you today. And we usually like to close our show by just asking, you know what, maybe in God's word is he bringing to light in a new way? Could be this morning, could be this week, could be the season of life. That may be something you've been meditating on individually. Just kind of what has God shown you that maybe you didn't recognize or understand before?

 

Liz [00:28:50] You know, Ben mentioned we have an almost three year old. And so it's been a really fun season where we're kind of entering out of those super baby toddler phase and into like our son is really cognitively engaged and asked really good questions and remember things. And so think probably for the last just really few months, I think we've had a new we engaged kind of entering into the season of trying to translate what we believe about him, about God, about other people into terms that a four year old can get and understand. And it's been a really beautiful process. And I've found probably one of the most beneficial spiritual disciplines that I have experienced in the last. I mean, honestly, I think since I've been a Christian has been how do you translate what you know to be true to something a 3 year old can understand? There's something about that stripping down and getting to the core essence of what we believe in. So that's something that as a family we've been working on for the last really month. We just wrote a family benediction. So this is kind of the thing that the Bohannan family believes and we recite it whether that's on our way to school or before we go to bed at night and kind of going back to scripture than thinking about what are the scriptures that are going to guide. That said, the first line of our benediction is based off of. They asked 1 7, which says and this is the version from the message which I love, the whole verse says, listen, now you who know right from wrong, you hold my teaching inside of you, pay no attention to insults. And when not, don't let it get you down. Those insults and mockery, they're moth eaten brains that are termite ready. That my setting things right. Laughs. My salvation goes on and on and on. In that first line of our family, dedication, benediction is not what I have, what I do or what people say. I'm a child of. And no one can take that away. And we teach it to our 3 year old and he says it now and it's amazing, but I find myself that it's starting to work its way into my mind. And as an entreprenuer, I think it's an incredibly grounding and has been very beneficial to walk into work each day and say, like, I'm not what I do, I'm not what I have. I'm not what other people say in kind of grounding myself in this belief that I am beloved and that I'm created in the divine image of my creator who created me to create. And so I can kind of get out of my ego and insecurity and into doing the work that I was meant to do, whether that's here take our in our family or in our marriage.

 

Henry [00:31:21] That was really good. That was worth the price of admission right there.

 

William [00:31:25] The whole point, which is which is free, but still amazing, is free. Ben, what about you? Well, then in your world.

 

Ben [00:31:34] Yeah. You know, I think probably the clearest thing for Lizanne, I mean, this is really what bleeds into work. And I don't know. This is somewhat of a plug for something else, though. Who he keep getting this as gifts. There's a book called Every Moment. Oh, my gosh.

 

[00:31:47] And it's a book of prayers and it's a liturgy for these kind of everyday moments. And I would recommend it to anyone, and especially for people that maybe aren't natural prayers. They don't spend a ton of time in prayer, but just need something to kind of walk them through their experiences or help him kind of enter into an experience.

 

[00:32:06] And there's been I would say, listen, I we've gone through a fair amount of transition on our team and our office our age, too. In Portland over the last several months and we've had people in and people out and people transition out and had to let people go. And it's been a really amazing thing. There's specifically a prayer that's done. It's like a prayer for dummies because it's like prayers for those that employ people. And just being able to read the words of what does it mean? How cool is it that we get to steward these resources are the words given us and that we get to steward somebodies time, that they're with us and we're impacting their life in the time that they're in these four walls. And listen, I have been commuting in work together, which is another plus of working together as married couple, but able to kind of read through these prayers and think about how we're essentially praying over our day and our employees as we walk in and we deliver really hard news or we deliver good news some days. But knowing that we're kind of going into it with the spirit of we're going to be faithful to what the Lord has given us and we're going to honor the time that our employees have given us and the work they put in. But knowing sometimes it doesn't turn out exactly as maybe everyone wants to turn out. And that's like a really challenging thing that we have to wrestle through as believers as we're running these businesses. But it's been so comforting to have kind of words to pray through as we go in and prepare for those moments.

 

Liz [00:33:34] The book is called Every Moment Holy. So Good, So Good.

 

William [00:33:38] Thank you so much for sharing that link to that in the show notes. And thank you so much for sharing your story and your marriage and your time with us as just a true pleasure.

 

Liz [00:33:50] Thanks for having us.

 

Rusty [00:33:51] And thanks for laughing so much. I don't know. You just made my soul feel good to be together and seemed to have a lot of fun with each other. So thank you for that.

 

Liz [00:34:00] Well, that's fun. Yeah. And Paco is actually those on their word for laughter. So there you go.