“We aren’t content with good ideas. We want God ideas.” – Mark Batterson

IJoin us for an inspiring discussion with Mark Batterson, Bill Job, and Justin Forman as they unpack the concept of “holy curiosity” in entrepreneurship. This episode takes listeners on a journey from the coffeehouse-turned-church in Washington D.C. to the factory floors of China, revealing how faith can drive innovation and risk-taking in business. Batterson introduces his new book on rediscovering everyday miracles, while Job shares powerful anecdotes about finding joy and purpose in unexpected places. Together, they challenge the notion of “safe” Christianity and encourage entrepreneurs to embrace the adventure of faith-driven business. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone seeking to integrate their spiritual life with their entrepreneurial pursuits.

If you’d like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.

Justin Forman Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Great to be with you guys again. It’s Justin here hosting this week’s episode. And one of the things I recently said on social media is one of the just great joys that I get in life is I get to feel like I spend time with with rock stars, not the guys that have large TikTok followings and all this type of stuff, but humble heroes of the faith that have been living this out in long obedience and a faithful direction for some time. And today’s episode is just a treat for me to get to connect some of those stories that have meant a lot on my journey. And so in today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about just the joy of what it means to follow God, the wonder of it, and the wonder of being in touch, being in conversation at every turn. And so one of those fun stories for me, when I had started this 20 years ago, I started this journey post-college and exploring this conversation of what does it mean if you lose faith and work together was running across an incredible story of an entrepreneur on the other side of the world in Shaman China that was being faithful to follow God’s call. And it was a gift for us then to capture a story that inspired so many as we were building right now media and inspired so many in the years. And so a previous guest on our podcast coming back to co-host this episode with me. Welcome back Bill Jobe to the show.

Bill Job Thank you, Justin. It’s great to be with you.

Justin Forman Indeed it is. It’s fun to think about it. Bill Cash, What was that? Was it a dozen years ago, 15 years ago, trying to remember when was it that we were actually filming that story?

Bill Job I’m afraid to count. I think it’s closer to 20.

Justin Forman Yeah, it was a while ago and it’s just fun to think about that. And we may have have that story on a VHS tape somewhere. I don’t know if that went straight to streaming or straight to VHS tape, but it’s been a while. But man, what a testament just to the way that God has worked over the years. And it’s just fun to have you back and fun to talk about this topic of what does it look like to kind of follow God and do that? And when we were thinking about just this topic and about unpacking this issue, it was fun to reconnect and to hear the story of Mark Patterson’s upcoming book, just talking about this very same topic. And for me personally, just another fun moment as we have gotten to film some different projects in the early days with right now media and just everything that was there. And one of the things that struck me just about this idea of faith in the marketplace is that this has been a growing trend. Pastors increasingly getting a passion, understanding and appreciation for just how God is just moving the marketplace. And Mark is one of those guys that has been leading this conversation, been having this conversation for some time. So, Mark, welcome to the show and thanks for joining us.

Mark Batterson: Great to be back. Justin Excited to be with both of you and to see where the conversation takes us.

Justin Forman Well, Mark, start us off for a minute. When you talk about the journey of National Community Church, it’s a unique story of how you guys planted both and how it was planted and where you guys are today. Can you give everybody just a quick flyover of the church that you guys are part of?

Mark Batterson Yeah, we started with the core group of 19 people for about 20 years. We’re 80% single 20 somethings. So a very young and I think pretty innovative church. There are ways of doing church no one’s thought of yet. We believe that church ought to be the most creative place on the planet. So, you know, most churches out of the gate might build a church building. We decided to build a coffeehouse and a place where church and community could cross paths. Well, why would you do that? Because Jesus didn’t just hang out at the synagogue, hung out at Wells, these natural gathering places and ancient culture. And so we thought, well, let’s build a coffeehouse. Plus, I would say the Holy Spirit plus caffeine equals awesome, those two things together. And so we have continued to just be in the marketplace. In fact, maybe we’ll talk a little bit. We now have a city block, 100,000ft² that we are building out as a mixed use marketplace event venue and pretty fun because we get to interface with thousands of people that may not darken a church door, but maybe we’ll rub shoulders and have a positive impact on them. Yeah, and we’re 28 years in which I guess what I’m saying is I’m not getting any younger.

Justin Forman Yeah, well, what a remarkable story of just kind of where got sort of relate to being a history buff. I can’t walk past the fact of just kind of that new building that you talked about. When you talk about being in the marketplace, like there’s a rich tradition that you guys are building on there.

Mark Batterson There is, we feel, a Isaiah 58 calling to rebuild the broken walls so turned a crack house into that coffee house in an abandoned apartment building in Ward seven that we turned into our DC Dream Center and then our Capitol Hill campus. This city block was the Navy Yard car barn built in 1891. So the brick in these walls is more than 130 years old. And it’s where streetcars were repaired and rerouted for most of its history. So we called it the capital turnaround, and we just turnaround people’s lives instead of streetcars. So that’s the long and short.

Justin Forman What a great story. Well, let’s present a little bit. You’ve got a book coming out. We’re thrilled to be a part of kind of introducing this to the faith driven entrepreneur audience. I think there’s so much crossover when we talk about this issue. Tell everybody about the idea behind the book. What got you to here and maybe just kind of lead us into some of the conversations you’ve had and how this applies to entrepreneurs.

Mark Batterson Yeah, well, a million little Miracles, fun book to write and a lot of research. I think more footnotes or end notes than any book I’ve written about 688 and notes. But I love science. I think all truth is God’s truth. I think embryology is a branch of theology. And so I’ve met people who say they’d never experience a miracle. With all due respect, you’ve never. Not in fact, you are one. So Albert Einstein said only two ways to live your life. One is as if nothing is a miracle. The other is as if everything is. So this book is not about the miracles that are the anomalies and epiphanies. Now, I believe in those kind of miracles, too. These are the everyday miracles that we tend to take for granted, like the 37 sextillion chemical reactions happening in the human body right now. You are fearfully and wonderfully made. So I did my toe in everything from neuroanatomy to astrophysics, everything in between. And just to remind readers, life is a miracle. Today is a miracle. You are a miracle. Every breath is a miracle. Every drop of water. So that’s the tip of the iceberg just in. But it’s a book about rediscovering the miracles that are all around us all the time.

Justin Forman Bill, I’d love for you to jump in here. You know, followers of the podcast have been following this for quite some time. I know we got such incredible feedback from the episode when we had you on before, and you talked about just kind of some of the things. Mark just unpack. There is the wonder and the joy that we have as entrepreneurs is just kind of following on this journey. Can you just kind of push into that a little bit of what that’s look like for you and your journey as an entrepreneur?

Bill Job I think a lot of what we eventually experienced came from a shift of identity where instead of serving God with the business that I was forming, I actually got under him. Seeing him as the owner who went to work with me every single day. Initially I felt like from the talents and the minus stories, he was like the master in that story that gives me a command to do business until he returns and now he’s going to go away and get another kingdom. And after a long time, he’ll return. So in the first few years, it felt like I was alone to develop this business that we started. And then I realized that actually it’s an Old Testament story and in the sense that it happened before the death and resurrection of Jesus. And so right in John 17, he says this great hand-off thing. He says, You know that glory I have with my dad that I’ve been demonstrating to you guys all this time, I am giving that glory to you. It’s going to be me and you and you and me. And so then when I replayed this talents in the miners stories, I realized, okay, so he gives me a command to do business and he just stands right there with me and he never goes anywhere. And so now you go to work and you realize, okay, he’s present, he’s right here with me. I had better not make his decisions for him. We better start surrendering to the most creative person in the universe and let him call the shots because it’s his company. I’m just a steward. And so when I began to realize his presence was always there, I realized, all of the responsibilities shifted my even the authority. I just need to primarily report to him and see what he wants to do. And so it developed what we call the 2 to 4 second window of opportunity. And that comes from the idea of I just wanted to get the mechanics of how did Jesus do that thing? You know, when he says, I never said anything my dad didn’t tell me to say, and I never did anything it didn’t tell me to do. You’ve seen him because I’ve been walking with him and I wanted to know. Well, when did his father tell him to do those things? That I want to push down a little more detail. Like, did they have a Monday morning, 9:00 meeting for the whole week and plan it out or what? And my intuition was it is much more responsive. It’s just right on the spot. And so if he stops and talks to somebody and a scriptural story, I now believe he probably was told by his dad to do that just before he did it. And so I feel like we only get a few seconds of opportunity. And if we’re not really tuned in, we’ll miss it. And it’s really kind of a sad thing to miss it. It’s so fun and so interesting. So like we had a baker come one time to the parking lot. I got out of the car and he was standing there waiting for me. And so I felt like, there, the clock is starting. I better pay attention to see if this is something God’s up to. And so I get out of the car. He goes, Hey, boss, how are you? And I go, Hey, who are you? And I’m not your boss. And he said, Well, you’re going to be. And I said, What are you talking about? And he said, Well, I’ve been looking for you for six months. I heard about you when I was in jail for begging. And so I’ve been trying to find you, and now I finally found you. And so I’m checking in with the Lord and I get a green light. Yeah. Let’s go ahead and bring this guy in. And honestly, he couldn’t speak very clearly. Didn’t have an I.D. His clothes were horrible. So we went, got him a room, got him some new clothes, got him a shower, got him an idea, and then brought him into the company. And it turned out that the first week he left his position there, like nine teams and he was a team member. We were making stained glass lampshades. And I walked through the factory and he walks over and he goes, Hey, boss. And he starts chatting it up and I go, He said, You can’t do that. You got to go back and can go to work. I mean, you got to be productive. And he goes, Well, I like doing different things every day. And I said, I don’t care what you like. You get to go back, go to work. And then that weekend, he became a believer. And the next week during a legitimate break time, he goes, Hey, boss, we’ve got five teams. Would you let me go to team number one on Monday and do the things they don’t want to do? It would be like measuring copper wire and bending it to particular shapes because there’s reinforcing thing. And then let me do team number two on Tuesday and team number three on Wednesday. And so we let that happen and on Tuesday that the team number one supervisor goes, Hey boss, where is that little guy? He’s sort of a midget. And I go, Well, you don’t get him today because he is with team number two. And he goes, No, no, no, you don’t understand. He was really helpful. And so it developed into a team of probably a dozen handicapped people off the streets that formed a support team. And everybody made more money because the regular workers were more productive. And so they got more. And then the company’s output went up about 20%, I would say. And if you look at over ten years, I think we made $1 million more profit because we hired a beggar. And so I’m looking back at that. I go, okay, there’s the adventure. This is so fun. When you look back and you look in the rearview mirror and you see what God’s been doing and you start recognizing. Those patterns. And it’s just so interesting.

Justin Forman Yeah, it’s fascinating when you’re talking about this bill. And for those you guys that haven’t been as familiar with Bill’s story, if you go through an entrepreneur website, you can see that video we filmed years ago or listen to podcast. It’s a remarkable story of what you’re talking about. That’s not the kind of thing you had in a business plan. That’s not the kind of thing that you scoped out in years. It’s responding to God in the way you talk about that. 2 to 4 second window, I think is so key. And so, Mark, I want to kind of bring it back to you when you’re talking about this idea of miracles, just the scope of how many maybe that pass us by each day. Like what does it take for us to have more of the eyes to see all of what’s happening around us?

Mark Batterson Yeah, well, I mean, for starters, we’re on a planet that’s spinning at a thousand miles an hour, makes one full rotation every day, speeding through space. It’s 67,000mph. So even on a day, you didn’t get much done in all. I’ll just direct it to Justin and Bill. Even on a day you didn’t get much done. You did travel 1.6 million miles through space. So there is that.

Justin Forman Is that my step counter, does that get counted on my phone? Do I get credit for that?

Mark Batterson It doesn’t count on your step. Nope. I you know, and here’s the thing. No one at the end of the day kneels down and says, Lord, thanks for keeping us in orbit. Or I wasn’t sure we’re going to make the full rotation today. But you did it again. Like, why? Because God is so good at what God does that we take it for granted. And I think part of what I want to do is, come on, let’s wake up to the miracles. There was a defining moment for me. I was a freshman at the University of Chicago taking a class in immunology at the University of Chicago Medical Center. And I remember the professor talking about hemoglobin. I don’t think I’d ever heard of it. I’m not sure I knew how to spell it. But every red blood cell as 260 million hemoglobin that deliver oxygen to the trillions of cells in the human body like I want to just bravo like, wow. Fearfully a wonderfully made every single breath, you know, 100,000 miles of airways and pathways. And so I just think the miracles are happening. It’s just we’re like Jacob Pre Bethel. We’re just unaware of it. And what we need to do is carp a wonder, wake up to those miracles. And part of it, you know, Bill, the miracles aren’t just nature. It’s the people that are right next to us, right? It’s the people, the like. The story you just told. When I start seeing people as the image of God is the apple of God’s eye, as fearfully and wonderfully made as God’s workmanship, now I can treat them for who they really are, and that is a miracle.

Justin Forman When is it that we’ve gotten here, Bill? When is it? We’ve gotten to the point where we’ve made entrepreneurship too much of a formula. I mean, this applies so much to our faith, as much it is like traditions are healthy, business plans are healthy. There’s so much things about planning that’s good. But when is it that we have kind of boxed in things we’ve tightened things, we’ve suppressed things so much that we’ve lost that childlike wonder.

Bill Job I’m formulating an idea. Let me just lay it out and you guys can help me shape it some. I think the one problem in the world that if solved would solve all of the problems is the spiritual ails symptoms in the body of Christ. My first business partner died of ALS, so I became pretty familiar with it. And as that horrible disease, Stephen Hawking had a version of it where you could have an incredibly smart mind, a brain, but it loses the ability to connect with the members of the body. And so I looked at the scripture one day that says, for each one of us is to grow up into him who is the head from whom? The whole body being knitted and held together grows with the growth which is from God. And so the picture of the body of Christ is apparently we have a very capable head in position. He can handle everything that comes his way in. Every single member of the body is supposed to be getting its direction from the head. So if I drink a cup of coffee, my head is giving my elbow, shoulder, wrist fingers, all instructions and they have to cooperate. But my elbow is not controlling my hand. My head is. And I just feel like if we measured the spiritual symptoms and the body of Christ today, it would be a pretty low measurement or the symptoms are pretty high. The control of the head over each member of the body 24 seven is pretty low. But if we could change that, I think that would answer your question. Justin. People aren’t getting their direction from the head. They’re getting it from each other and that’s why they begin to look the same and you lose the creativity. Because now they’re modeling each other. And that’s because they don’t have a strong connection with the head. Or to Mark’s point in his book, I think one of the points that he was mentioning is you’ve got to have courage to take the risk, to step out into the direction that the head of the church has given you. And so a lot of folks see the risk and they went out and they go, that’s that’s a lot. I don’t think I can do that. And so we’re missing out on the delivery of creativity from the creator to each of us.

Justin Forman Okay. So, Bill, you hit on something here that we’re just filming with David Kinnaman last week, and it was an interesting conversation as we were talking about this. And you said, is there a moment that we’re in that the church has something to learn from entrepreneurs? When we think about the early days of church? And I’m coming to you, Mark, here with a question on this. Is this idea of so much in the early days of our faith, so much in the early days of the church. We were known for this appetite for risk. And obviously, there are places in the world today where it is very risky and it’s very dangerous. There are some of those things that are physical threat. There’s just a lot going on there. And yet in the western side of things, have we derisked have we lost some of that appetite for risk? And that’s entrepreneur. That’s big seed church, That’s everybody included. So as you think about that, guys like I’d love both of your perspectives in this and maybe we’ll start with Mark. Mark. You’re around entrepreneurs. You’ve seen it. You’re in the marketplace. You’ve lived those moments as a church from the early days. What is it about this moment that maybe we could learn from entrepreneurs in that risk tolerance here as a church?

Mark Batterson Yeah. Well, I think faith is spelled r, i. S k. The will of God is not an insurance plan. It’s a dangerous plan. Like you can’t read the second half of Hebrews 11 and come to any other conclusion. But I think playing it safe is risky. And the parable of the talents, You know, if you bury your talent in the ground, that seems like a safe bet. It’s the break even. But evidently it’s Breaking Bad because Jesus calls that servant wicked, which seems kind of harsh. But, you know, I think we have to be willing by faith. And I’m not dismissing, you know, risk reward ratio. But let’s be honest. We had no business going into the coffee business like we had no experience whatsoever. But God isn’t called a qualified. He qualifies the call and we felt a calling to step in. Now, we did our homework. You know, you got to put together a business plan. You have to do the groundwork and do the due diligence. But I think there’s a lot to learn. You know, I’ve always felt like as a church planter, starting with 19 people 28 years ago, that’s a form of entrepreneurship, whether it’s starting a church or a business. And I’ll say one last thing and then hand the baton to bill for every church we plant. I think we ought to start a business mission. And part of why I say that is it was a $14 million gift from an entrepreneur who has a mind for business and a heart for the kingdom that retired our debt as a church. We need these two things to be in tandem. And so whether you’re starting a business or starting a church, spirit filled spirit lead, and when we obey those promptings of the spirit, now we set the stage for God to show up and show off and do some pretty amazing miracles.

Bill Job Mark That’s a great introduction to one thing I wanted to comment on. I have a seminary degree and I’ve memorized a number of books in the Scriptures, so I had that impression that I knew what was going on, but I didn’t have an obedience component to it. And so one day in China, an American business guy invited a bunch of Americans to a Thanksgiving banquet as a gift. It was just a real gracious act. That night, I went home and I started thumbing through scripture and I realized, hey, wait a minute, I’ve been told how to have banquets. Also, I’ve been told to go get the people off the streets that can’t invite you back, the ones the cripple, the lame. And I’d never done it. I’ve probably taught it about 20 times. And it’s the embarrassment of realizing I didn’t want to take the risk of actually doing what the scripture says. So i went to work and my h.r. Manager is just a wonderful brother and i showed him the passage and i said, have you ever done that? And he goes, No. And I said, you want to. And I felt that excitement that was really so internally rewarding when you step into obedience. And he said, sure. And so we took a restaurant over two days later and we filled it with 28 of our people off the street. And we just said, okay, feed them until they can’t walk. And we had the most glorious time. And I realized that is it. That’s the risk that you have to take to actually do what the scriptures say to do. And even though I knew it and could teach it. So to speak. I had not demonstrated it. So we got into a habit of just doing what the Scripture says. So I was being cursed by six witches one time and I looked at the scripture, says, you know, bless those who curse you. And I used to think they’re cussing me out. And then I realized, no, that’s not actually what it says. They’re actually cursing you. And so overseas, you can have that experience. And so the scripture says, no, just go pray for them and bless them. And so we had people from our factory going out to their houses at five in the morning and walking around and just blessing them. We did that for several months until the curse sort of got off of us. Wow.

Justin Forman Bill, what incredible perspective. I mean, when you’re talking about the real life warfare that we’re going up against, it’s real. And I love what Mark is talking about, is we have to start with these eyes to see. Mark, you talk about some of this in your book, and it’s a really powerful analogy, I think that you talk about just how we’ve lost that edge. We’ve lost living on the edge. Can you share a little bit about that story and how it relates?

Mark Batterson Yeah, it’s a short version. I was in the Galapagos Islands, closest thing to the Garden of Eden left on Earth. And I mean, there were these pelicans that look like prehistoric pterodactyls kind of circling our boat dive bombing into the ocean, coming back with breakfast in their beat. These iguanas that were larger than life with swimming with some sea lions. It was the most exotic lake immersed in nature. And after that trip, I came home and we took our young children to the National Zoo. And we were walking through the ape house and there were these gorillas behind 400 pound plexiglass. And this thought kind of went through my mind. I wonder if churches do to people what zoos do to animals if we don’t try to tame them in the name of Jesus, kind of mitigate the risk, removed the danger. But then I went back to the Gospels. And Bill, kind of like your encounter with that story about the banquet. Like I’m reading Jesus, say I’m sending you out like sheep among wolves. And if you read that literally like that does not sound safe at all. That sounds pretty dangerous. But it’s this idea of when do we think Jesus called us to go to safe places, to work with nice people, to do easy things like this is not the gospel. We invade dark places with the light and love of Jesus. Or like Bill said, we circle people’s homes who are cursing us and we speak blessing. And so there’s something powerful when that happens. And I write a little bit in the book about this idea of rewilding, which is an ecological term. But, you know, I read the Gospels and Jesus basically took his disciples on like a three year camping, hiking trip. They climb mountains, they walk beaches. And he spent a lot of time in the wilderness. And so I think the church could afford a little bit of rewilding and, you know, in the book and maybe spell out some of the natural theology that maybe we’ve lost. The Celtic Christians talked about thin places where Heaven touches Earth, and the original House of God was not a church building or a synagogue. It was Bethel. It was an open heaven. It was a place where when you get into nature, you get into touch with nature’s God. And so you know what I’m trying to do there? Listen, guys, I love indoor plumbing. Hallelujah. I love air conditioning. Like, I’ll take more of it. I love the conveniences of modern life, but something can be lost if we live a very insulated life. And part of what I’m poking at in the book and I actually write about the two foot field trip that God takes Abraham on, and I won’t take time to delineate that. But when he was inside his tent, he was staring at an eight foot ceiling, was putting an eight foot ceiling on what God can do. And God says, Go outside, look up and count the stars. And I think that’s what this book is beckoning people to do, Like go outside, look up, count the stars. The sky is the limit. This is a God who can do immeasurably more than all we can ask or imagine. And I think if you’re an entrepreneur like, man, you got to operate by faith and it’s going to take some risks, but you have to get outside the tent, so to speak. You have to get outside the box. So hopefully the book is just part of spurring people on to that part of the spiritual journey.

Justin Forman I love the language you use, Mark, in the book where you talk about the idea of never lose this holy curiosity. There’s just something about that term. There’s just something about that where you take that childlike word, you put that adjective in front of it, and it just changes it in a different perspective.

Mark Batterson Yeah. And I here’s what’s fun, because, Bill, you and I are just meeting, but I can tell you have that childlike wonder that that holy curiosity. And by the way, it comes from Albert Einstein. I even have his picture hanging in my office because that was page 755 for the biography I read at 21 years of age. He said, Never lose a holy curiosity. And it changed my life. It’s the juxtaposition of those two words. And I think curiosity is a gift that God has given. To us. So honestly, I find almost everything and everyone endlessly interesting, and that’s part of what it means, I think, to rediscover a million little miracles.

Justin Forman That’s so good, Bill. I wanted to throw it over to you because when I think about people that have just contagious, infectious joy and this childlike wonder, both as a pastor and a business people that you guys are at the top of the list because I just love the joy and the consistency of which you bring that energy to it. You’ve done that bill so many times. Everybody sees you at a conference, an event. They seen the video. There is just this joy and childlike wonder how do you do that? In the midst of reports and details and bank statements and everything else that eats us as an entrepreneur, what has helped you keep that joy and childlike wonder?

Bill Job Well, there was a day like in manufacturing where I’ve lived most of my business life. There’s a phrase that says you need to know what to measure and how often to measure it. And the Lord spoke to me one day he goes, just to let you know I am measuring the level of joy in your life and I’m measuring it every second. And I was blown away by the concept. I had no respect for the role of joy. I just I honestly, I think I thought it was kind of effeminate or optional or something. And so I realized when he’s measuring it every second of my life, he’s serious about me having some. And then I discovered if I don’t have it, I can ask for it and I immediately receive it because it’s rooted in my identity with the Father, with Jesus and the spirit. It’s non circumstantial, so I could be in a horrible circumstance and still have true joy. So I developed a joy meter and I go from 1 to 10 and anybody can just close their eyes and read their meter and find out where where they are. And if they’re not where they want to be, just say, Hey, Papa, I don’t have enough joy right now. I need a little bit more. I’m not stepping out of the house and tell them up to an eight. I won’t be prepared for the day. And so I found that to be just a simple, super easy way to actually have a significant amount of true joy. And what you get with that is strength. It’s unexpected, but the joy of the Lord actually is my strength. And the other thing that I notice is the enemy. Let’s say that he can tempt me to be angry at someone and add my joy meter. That gives me up to about a five. It feels a little bit good to be angry with somebody in a wicked way, but if I’m leaving the house at eight and the enemy offers me a five, he is so easy to ignore because I am not giving up my aid to accept what he offers. It’s just a bad deal. And then the other thing that helped me a lot was I did a word study on the phrase kingdom of God, and there’s 140 or so references, and I wanted to see what inhibits us, what keeps us out of it. And there’s two things that were repeated that I noticed right away. One is wealth. It’s hard for the rich to enter, but the simple solution to that is from an identity point of view, just be a steward. If you’re a steward, you cannot be wealthy. And that just takes that whole thing away and it makes it really easy. But the other thing, and this is something that people rarely guess the other hurdle was unless you become like a child. And so I just asked him, Lord, why did you say that about kids? Like, what are you getting at? And he said, Well, how did children learn? And I immediately saw a picture of my elementary school and then a big fenced in playground. And he said, Some things you can learn in the classroom, but other things you can only learn on the playground. And the kingdom is primarily playground. And so you must be childlike to take the risk and try the things like I was in a hotel bus going from O’Hare to a hotel and I noticed the driver didn’t lift my suitcase up and I asked him how he’s doing. He goes, I have a really, really bad back problem. Had been four days ago. And I said, I noticed that, you know, you were reluctant to pick it up. And then I heard the Lord say, Well, you are a Christian. And so there’s just the two of us in the bus. And while we’re driving long ago, he demurred, If I pray for you while you’re driving, I might close my eyes, but you don’t need to close your eyes at all. And so I just prayed for his back. It felt playful. If I wasn’t willing to be playful, I probably wouldn’t have done it. If I had to analyze and understand it, I wouldn’t. But it was just a fun little thing to do. And the next morning I got to the bus to go back to the airport and he just goes nuts. He said, You won’t believe what happened as soon as you got out of the bus. I would just totally healed. I called my mom and said, Hey, mom, this crazy guy in the bus bravery. And I’m just like, This is so fun. But if you don’t take the chance, but if you take it like a child, you’ll be much more courageous than you think you will.

Justin Forman Gosh, I love that. Gosh, I love that. Just that. Take it. Like a child not questioning, just observing it. The wonder, the curiosity of it. Like we’ve been so beaten down by it and it’s been pulled out of us, you know, as some of the things Marx mentioned, maybe it’s been, you know, pent up in us. We’ve been walled in. But like when you start talking, when you start having that conversation, just the joy. I don’t know why is it that we’ve lost sight of like the this our faith is a get to not a got to. Why is it that we’ve lost sight of this like just the joy. It’s contagious, it’s infectious. The got to feel so much an obligation. Why would we why would we go to the got to instead of get to where are we getting distracted?

Mark Batterson Yeah. Well, amen to everything Bill just said. And you’re Joy meter is doing pretty good today, Bill.

Bill Job You boosted up two points when I do. So.

Mark Batterson I love it. I love it. Well, it’s so fun because Sir Francis Bacon, who came up with the scientific method, said that we are God’s play fellows and they’re this grand game that we’re in with God. And I think, I mean, that’s the title of chapter two in the book, Rediscovering that playfulness, this idea of the Hebrew word tov. And God saw that it was tov seven times in Genesis one. This just childlike delight. And I think what happens is, let’s be honest, guys, life. If you aren’t careful, it’ll suck the joy out of you and you can lose it and never get it back. And here’s the challenge. I do think Joy might be our primary apologetic, because if you don’t have joy, I don’t really want what you have. So how do we rediscover that? Well, Joy isn’t getting what you want. It’s appreciating what you have. And part of that then is just today is a miracle. You’re a miracle. Life is a miracle. Eyesight is a miracle. Hearing is the miracle. Everything is a miracle. And we’re right back where we started. It’s the T.S. Eliot. You know, it’s to arrive where you started and see that place for the first time. And so I think Joy is it’s rediscovering the God who is bigger than big, closer than close together, than good. And learning to appreciate every good and perfect gift comes from the father above a man.

Justin Forman What a word. What a word. As we come to a close here, just such a reminder. You know, the other thing I’m struck by is just how fun it is to have these conversations between entrepreneurs and pastors and to come to the table and to have these conversations. There’s so much more that we have alike than we are different. We miss it. We miss those moments as we’re all being driven by mission and always on and always going to all these different directions. But when we sit down, we have this conversation and say some of the very same things we can be learning from to take risk, to discover the joy, to have the curiosity. And it just such a good reminder. You know, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention to you guys one of the things that we’re working on, we haven’t announced this yet, is that we are having an online event here this spring, in February to do just that, to bring pastors and entrepreneurs together to the same table, to have this conversation of in this crazy time, in this crazy situation that this world is in, when the the typical hero that we’ve turned to in the past may have changed, it’s maybe not as much the musician, the athlete, the politician. We’re turning to business leaders more and more because we know we were shoulder to shoulder alongside each other. And they’re just really it is an opportunity. So pastors and entrepreneurs.org is a website coming soon that will talk about that event, talk about resources, talk about videos that Mark and Bill have participated in and how we can equip the church together. And one of those resources is a video called Dear Entrepreneur that you can find work in, just praying a prayer just over entrepreneurs in this moment. And so obviously, we’re not going to go right into that message in particular. But Mark, could you do us a favor? Just close this time here together, praying for entrepreneurs, praying for this moment, this movement and this conversation and the opportunities for joy that we have in front of us.

Mark Batterson Yeah, be happy, too, Lord. Thank you. Thank you for these creative minds that You’ve given to us. And we want to have the mind of Christ. We aren’t content with good ideas. We want God ideas. We desperately need your anointing. We need the Holy Spirit to give us those ideas. And then we need the courage and the faith to blood, sweat and tears. Put them into practice. And so, Lord, I pray for those that maybe are a little discouraged in their journey, experience a few setbacks, maybe even a failure. Lord, I look back on a failed church plant before we planted. This church, and I’m grateful you’re the guy to dust this off. Picks us up, gives us a second chance. And so, Lord, we pray that you would help us to write better books, start better businesses, produce better films to do whatever it is that you called us to do with the help of the Holy Spirit for your glory in Jesus name. Amen.

Justin Forman Amen. Amen. Great to be with both of you guys. Grateful for your passion. Enjoy your enthusiasm for this. Good to be with you.

Bill Job Great to meet you, Mark.

Mark Batterson Thanks so much. God bless.

Thanks for listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our ministry exists to equip and resource entrepreneurs just like you, with content and community. We know entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey, but it doesn’t have to be. We’ve got groups that meet in churches, coffee shops, living rooms and boardrooms around the world. Find one in your area or volunteer to lead one and bring this global movement to your own backyard. There’s no cost, no catch, just connection. Find out more at faith driven entrepreneur.org.

God has sovereignly ordained your life and this time to play a unique part in the accomplishment of His purpose. Entrepreneur, God has not saved you to sideline you on this mission. David Platt

In this episode of the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast, hosts Henry and Justin discuss the recent conference and share a thought-provoking message from David Platt. Key topics include:

1. The idea that entrepreneurs are positioned “for such a time as this”

2. How current technological and economic trends create unprecedented opportunities

3. David Platt’s perspective on the unique role of entrepreneurs in today’s world

4. The importance of seeking God’s guidance in business decisions

5. Balancing professional success with spiritual growth and purpose

6. The potential for long-term impact beyond an entrepreneur’s lifetime

If you’d like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.

240915_FDE_EP311_It_Just_So_Happens_FULLMIX_Round1a_01.mp3

Henry Kaestner Partner. Welcome back. Welcome back to the feature guys for our podcast. We just had our conference. I thought it was awesome, man.

Justin Forman It is so much fun to get everybody together, isn’t it? I mean, just to see so many different people from all over the world tuning into this and yeah, how about you, Henry? But man, it gives me a perspective how wide this movement is.

Henry Kaestner It is. It is. It’s super motivating. It’s just really encouraging. There’s something about this that knowing that there’s watch party going on in Lagos and one in Manila and then one in Akron and one in Los Gatos, California, just all around the world. And there is a truth and common DNA to this movement that I think allows it to really work. And a lot of this this it’s the it’s the low continent partnering with pastors and really taking the agency in and owning it and saying, you know, there’s a common DNA here of the 12th March, which if you’re listening, you may very well know the call to create identity crisis, etc.. And there’s some incredible content that allows allows for great facilitated conversations. But ultimately, this is something that I can then contextualize. I’m a leader in partnership with my pastor church. We can get out there and we can pray through what the different businesses are wrestling with in our community here in the Philippines or in Africa or in California or in Texas. So there’s a part that’s universal and common with the DNA, and yet there’s part that’s always contextualized with great agency from, gosh, we have more than 2400 volunteers now, I think, right?

Justin Forman Yeah, we do. And it’s me. And what a privilege is to partner with them and to serve them. And the one of the things I love most about the conferences, when you see the pictures roll in, when you see the watch party host showing the different places and all the areas where people are gathering and it gives you just this feel of like he said, there’s a there’s a common DNA, but you don’t have to hop on a plane to find this movement. It’s in each of our backyards and it’s been there for so long. And to see it alive and vibrant is an encouragement. I love what you said about, like, churches and pastors are increasingly finding themselves being the host of those conversations, because I think that there’s an awakening happen. It’s taken a long time, but we’ve seen this over the last couple of decades where increasingly pastors are understanding that. And, you know, I know we got a chance to hear from one that we think very highly of. And I’ve just been incredibly grateful for his friendship and partnership in the gospel in this and seeing David Platt, just his understanding of entrepreneurs and the challenges, but also the opportunities, what entrepreneurs have in front of them to be a part of God’s redemptive story. Man, what an encouragement it is. Because I know that many of us were carrying, if we’re honest, a little bit, I don’t know what the analogy would be. Maybe like a dad wound of something that we’re carrying, something that’s hurt us, where we felt overlooked by the church. We felt missed, we felt neglected. And when you see guys like David take up that opportunity to say, no, this gospel, this situation that we find ourselves in, what an opportunity there is for entrepreneurs and men. What a talk it was that he was able to give it the event. And so, you know, one of the things we wanted to do is we always want to highlight those messages that stand out as messages that we feel like is something that really defines this moment or this movement that we’re in. And so we wanted to share with you that talk at the conference. And then we would spend some time talking about that afterwards. So let’s go ahead and play this talk from David Platt.

David Platt Entrepreneur. I want to encourage you with four verses, three declarations, two exhortations and one picture. So we’ll start with four verses. Esther Chapter four verses 13 through 16.

‘Then Mordechai told them to reply to Esther. Do not think to yourself that in the King’s palace you will escape any more than all the other Jews. For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place. But you and your father’s house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this? Then Esther told them to reply to Mordecai. Go gather all the Jews to be found in Susa and hold a fast on my behalf and do not eat or drink for three days. Night or day. I and my young women will also fast as you do. Then I will go to the king. Though it is against the law. And if I perish, I perish.’

In these four verses. I want to show you three declarations that Mordecai makes specifically to Esther.

One, he tells Esther we are living in a time of historic need. So let me remind you the context behind what we just read. As a result of the exile, God’s people, the Jewish people in the Old Testament had been scattered first among the Babylonians, then they were taken over by the Persians. So the Persians were ruling over the Jewish people at this point. And in the chapter right before these verses, we meet a guy named Heymann who persuaded the King of Persia to decree that on a certain day, all the Jewish people should be killed. And that’s what the king did. The King of Persia decreed the annihilation of all the Jews. Meanwhile, Esther, who was a Jewish woman, was the Queen. But the king didn’t know she was Jewish. And Esther hadn’t even heard about the King’s decree. So Esther’s older cousin, Mordecai, who had essentially adopted her as a daughter, sent her a message in the palace, told her what was going on, and said she needed to try and stop this. The problem was she hadn’t seen the king for a while and she wasn’t scheduled to see him anytime soon. And right before the verses we just read in verse 11 of chapter four, Esther says, Everybody knows that if any woman or man goes to the king without being invited, one thing happens. They die. So for Esther, it would be risking her life to even try and see the king, much less ask him to totally change an edict he’s made. So Esther sends that message to Mordecai. And that’s when Mordecai says what we just read. Mordechai says, Esther, you don’t realize this is the time. Our moment of historic need for all the Jewish people, including you. He says in verse 13, Don’t think to yourself that in the King’s palace you will escape any more than all the other Jews. We’re living in a time of historic need, yet declaration number two.

We’re living in a time of historic opportunity. Esther, Mordechai says you’re the queen and you’re Jewish. The queen is practically the only person who could persuade the king to change his mind. And you, a Jewish woman, are the queen. Esther, We’re living in a time of historic need and historic opportunity, which sets the stage for the third declaration. Esther, God has sovereignly ordained your life, and this time to play a unique part in the accomplishment of his purpose. I love Mordechai, his words in verse 14. Esther Relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews. Mordechai is sure of that. This is the people of God. We’re talking about the people of God who have the promises of God. Promises that He will keep them and preserve them and sustain them and save them. Mordechai knows God will not let his people be annihilated. Relief and deliverance will rise. God has a purpose and He is sovereignly orchestrating everything in the world for the accomplishment of that purpose, including your life, Esther. And that’s when the line comes. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this. And this is what I love about the Book of Esther.

People have practically criticized this book because it doesn’t mention the name of God, but the sovereign fingerprints of God are all over every page of this story. The Book of Esther is a divine drama with cosmic coincidences at every turn. Think about it. How did Esther become queen in the first place?

Well, one day Queen Vashti just so happened to upset her husband. And he just so happened to cast her out, which just so happened to create a need for a new queen. Enter Esther, who just so happened to be a beautiful Jewish woman who just so happened to find favor in the king’s eyes. And Esther just so happens to be Monaco’s cousin, who just so happens one day to hear about a plot to kill the king. And Mordechai just so happens to tell Esther, who tells the king and the king’s life is saved. Mordechai, His act is written down in a book. But it just so happens that for some reason, he’s not honored at that point. All that leads to Heyman, an evil man who just so happens to become prominent in the kingdom. He’s the one who wants to kill all the Jews, and he hates Mordechai because Mordechai won’t bow down to Heymann like everybody else. That makes Heyman mad. And he decides he’s going to have the King kill Mordechai. Heyman has gallows built for Mordechai and his. Plan is to go to the king the next morning and ask for Mordecai to be killed. But it just so happens that that night King can’t sleep. And he says, somebody read a book to me. And it just so happens that the guy who goes to get a bedtime story for the king out of all the books, he could have pulled off the shelf, he picks the one that tells the story of how Mordecai saved the king’s life. The king says, Did we honor this man, Mordecai? The servant says no. So the king decides that’s what he’s going to do first thing in the morning. And just as soon as the sun rises, as the king is ready to honor Mordecai. Guess who just so happens to walk into the King’s Room? Haman So the king just so happens to say, Hey, man, how do you think I should honor somebody who’s super special? Haman thinks the king is talking about him. So Haman says, put royal robes on him and parade him around for everybody to praise. The king says, Great idea. Do that for Mordecai. And all of a sudden, Haman finds himself robing up the guy he wanted to hang, leading him through the land for everybody to honor. But Haman still got some hope because Queen Esther has invited him to a banquet with her and the king. So he’s thinking he’s pretty special until he gets to the banquet. And Queen Esther says we’ve got a problem. King You’ve decreed the destruction of the Jews and your wife’s a Jew. The king says, Who in the world made me do that? And Esther says. The king is furious. He leaves the room. Heyman falls on his face before pleading for mercy. The king just so happens to come back in at that time. He thinks Haman’s mistreating his wife. And he says, that’s it. I’m hanging you. And it just so happens that some gallows had recently been built. And within hours, Haman says hello to them. Like you can’t write this script.

Do you realize what the book of Esther is teaching about history? God has the whole thing rigged, and he’s rigged it for a reason. God has a purpose. He has promised to save his people for the sake of his praise among all the peoples of the world. And he’s sovereignly orchestrating everything toward that end. And this is why these verses count by mind when I think about you. Because as entrepreneurs, we are living in a time of historic need.

I show you this map. It has three distinct colors green, yellow and red. The green zones on this map show places in the world that have been reached with the gospel, the good news of God’s love and Jesus. Obviously, green doesn’t mean everybody in those areas is a follower of Jesus, but it does mean that disciples have been made and churches have been planted in these green zones, and most people who live there will encounter a Christian at some point in their lives who can share the gospel with them. Then you have yellow zones where there is less knowledge of the gospel. Some Christians, some churches, but usually those are places where there used to be a stronger church presence and a stronger Christian presence. You look at parts of Europe that that would apply to or. These are places where the gospels more recently come and there’s a few Christians, few churches there, but not a lot and not nearly as many as in the green. And then you come to the red zones on this map that show places in the world that have not been reached by the gospel. Places where there are relatively few. And some of these places know Christians know churches, which means that most people in red zones will never at any point in their lives encounter a follower of Jesus who can share the gospel with them. Practically, if you live in a red zone, the likelihood is that will be born. You live and you’ll die without even hearing the good news of God’s love in Jesus. And approximately 3.2 billion people live in the red zones of the world. That’s a staggering number.

And we know from God’s word that none of them can be saved from their sin if they don’t hear the good news of God’s love in Jesus. That’s why Paul wrote the book of Romans. He made it clear in Romans ten. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of Christ, and they can’t hear the Word of Christ, the gospel. If somebody doesn’t share the gospel with them. I do realize what this means. Think about it with me. The world population is continually increasing, including the number of people in red zones, and our outdated models of church and mission aren’t doing near enough to reach them with the gospel. Which means So follow this that there are more people in the world today who have never heard the gospel than ever before in history. There are more people being born, living, dying and entering into a crisis eternity than ever before in history. That’s happening on our watch. Yet at the same time. So follow this.

We’re also living in a time of historic opportunity. So, yes, there are more unreached people in the world today than ever before in history on our watch. But we also have more opportunities to reach them than ever before in history. You think about just travel. Paul could have never imagined as he sailed from one city the next or walked by foot from one to the next. He never could have fathomed a machine that can pick you up in the air, transport you around the world, just about anywhere in a day like air travel. This is amazing technology. How long did it take for Paul to write a letter or dictate it and then have it sent over weeks or months? People would receive it and then weeks or months later reply to it. He never could have fathomed communicating with people around the world in real time, in multiple languages through a device we hold in our pockets. Travel, technology, urbanization. The fact that just 200 short years ago, the world was less than 3% urban and now it’s well over a majority urban and continually increasing. You think about how many of us live with relatively unprecedented wealth in the history of the world. You think about the globalization of the marketplace and the opportunities there are for work around the world, for the gospel to spread through business where we live and to the ends of the earth, where different nations will actually pay for the gospel to spread to their nations on the wings of work. We have opportunities not just for hundreds of missionaries to go through outdated models, but for hundreds of thousands and millions of Christians to scatter in the world in all kinds of different ways, not just by leaving their jobs, but by leveraging the wings of work for the spread of the gospel in the world. And this is where you come in, because God has sovereignly ordained your life and this time to play a unique part in the accomplishment of his purpose.

Entrepreneur, God has not saved you to sideline you on this mission. God has sovereignly ordained your life in this moment to play a wonderfully unique part in the accomplishment of his purpose. You have unique skills, gifts, experiences that I don’t have, and a lot of other people don’t have a you know, how to look for solutions that solve problems in the marketplace. You know what mechanisms are needed to acquire customers? You know how to allocate capital and make bets towards solutions that will work in competitive industries in the world. You have gifts to understand how finances and products can be used and leveraged way. So what would it look like to channel all of that toward what I would say without question is the world’s greatest problem. Billions of people who haven’t even heard the gospel, that alone can restore them to God. As a pastor who doesn’t know what you know or have what you have. I see you. I thank God for who you are and what is called you to do and how he’s empowered you to do it. And I just want to say, in the name of Jesus, play your unique part in the accomplishment of his world wide purpose. Yes. Starting right where you live. Right Where you work with the people around you, and then looking for opportunities that you have in the globalization of today’s marketplace. Knowing that one day I be sure of this revelation seven, nine and ten, a multitude that no one can count from every nation, tribe, language and people is going to gather around the throne of God and give him glory through Jesus for salvation. That will happen. And God has designed your life to play a unique part in bringing that about. So what do you do?

Two exhortations.

Number one, seek God’s face. Did you notice the first thing estrogen when she heard that news from Mordecai? Well, notice what she didn’t do. She didn’t just get to work. She didn’t start whiteboarding a plan or strategizing with her team. She didn’t just run out and start getting things done. Instead, she ran to God himself. Verse 15, Esther told them to reply to Mordecai. Go gather all the Jews to be found in Susa. Hold a fast on my behalf. Don’t eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my young women will fast as you do. Esther said. I’m going to see God’s face. That’s what we all need to do. And this is where I want to remind you, brothers and sisters, that before we’re called to get things done for God, we’re called to get alone with God. This is where I want to remind you that the most important part of your life is not your stats and stories or rates and returns on sheets. The most important part of your life is the part that no one else sees. Success in your life is not measured by your production. Success in your life is measured by your personal intimacy with God himself. And I’ll be the first to admit I’ve missed this. I think about a long season of my life when the church I pastor was growing. I’d written a book that was selling a lot of copies. I was being invited to speak across the country and around the world at various events. I was loving it and I was working hard and seeing all kinds of good things happen on the outside. Everything looked great. But during this long season, my time alone with God was basically non-existent. Sure I could turn on a public prayer and a worship service just like that, but I would hardly ever just meet with God alone to know Him more. I’d study the Bible or to preach it, but not just because I wanted to hear from God. Like that frightens me how successful I could be in the eyes of the church, the Christian culture, even in my own eyes, and do it totally apart from intimacy with God. And by God’s grace, he brought me to a point of repentance. He did so through my wife, who I just asked her one day to try to periodically ask her, How can I love you better? And usually she’ll say, you’re doing great, and maybe you can work on this, but you’re doing great. This day there is no you’re doing great. She said, You work all the time. You stay up late. You get up early, you don’t sleep, you don’t eat healthy. You don’t exercise. And I don’t know when you have quiet time alone with God. And she said, if you don’t make major changes in your life, you’re not going to be around to love me very long. And it was. Needed wakeup call. That led to a host of changes in my life, starting first and foremost with concentrated time with God every morning that, by his grace, has not abated over time and has grown sweeter literally every single day. And you know, it’s interesting. Last few years of my life and work have kind of felt like the opposite of those days. Pastoring in Metro D.C.. The last few years has brought greater challenges and more criticism and less popularity and even mudslinging on my reputation and for a variety of other reasons. On top of that, much closer to home, this season has been one of the most difficult seasons of my life. But God has been closer to me than ever before. I told my wife on a recent date night. I’ve it’s been really hard days, but I can honestly say I know God more. I love God more than I’m enjoying closer communion with God than I ever have. So I told her, I guess if God is the goal, then these are great days. And the good news is that God is the goal. I just want to encourage you. Brothers and sisters, don’t forget that God is the goal. Seek his face about everything and everyone else. Make intimacy with God the consuming ambition of your life. Seek his face.

And second, surrender your life, Esther says in verse 16. Let’s fast and pray. I’ll go to the king, though it’s against the law. If I perish, I perish. What a statement. Esther didn’t know what this would mean for her. Esther didn’t know if this would cost her life, but Esther said regardless. God’s put me in this time and this place for his purpose. So I surrender my life to the accomplishment of his purpose. Brother or sister? Don’t think that you can play your part in the accomplishment of God’s purpose without personal cost. The more you give your life to God’s purpose in the world, the more you and your family and your work will be met with the force of hell. And the harder it will get, not the easier. There’s a sense in which Satan would love for you to do your work while you sit back and enjoy a nice, comfortable Christian spin on the American dream. But you were made for so much more than that. You were made for a much bigger dream than that. A dream that’s so big it’s worth your life. That leads to one picture. I want to show you. It actually progresses. This first picture on the screen. If you look around Jerusalem and around Antioch and around Rome, there’s like a little bit of yellow. And those places represent the regions known to contain Christians. At the beginning of Paul’s ministry, when he began spreading the gospel. And in just second, I want to show you a second picture, and it’s going to show you the regions known to contain Christians. At the end of Paul’s life. This wanted to see if you can tell a difference. Look at this second picture with me. You see that yellow light up? And many of the places where Paul traveled. And I’m not saying Paul was the only person to impact that map. But I would say Paul had a major impact on that map. But what’s interesting is Paul wrote the book of Romans because he wanted some help in getting the gospel to Spain because they’d never heard the gospel there. And if you look at this map, you’ll see that there’s no yellow around Spain. So what should we conclude? Paul, you failed. You had a goal. You didn’t reach it. You didn’t get to the place, accomplish the task you set out to do. Well, before we draw that conclusion that Paul failed. And just a second, I want to show you one more map that shows the regions known to contain Christians within two short centuries after Paul’s death. And I want you to see if you can tell the difference in this map. Look at it with me. Again, I’m not saying that Paul was the only person that impacted this map. But I am saying do not underestimate. What God will do, not just in your life while you’re on this earth, but through your life, far beyond your time here. When you give your life to His purpose as you know what it’s like to invest your resources to see a return. And I want to close this few minutes I have with you with the challenge for you to live for returns that you cannot see, to live for the kinds of returns that last far beyond you and far beyond what you can see in this historic time of unprecedented need and opportunity with the grace that God has sovereignly given. Seek His face and surrender your life to leave a legacy for the glory of God in this world that far outlasts you. You were made for this. And I guarantee you, when you find yourself around a throne with men and women from every nation, tribe, language and people enjoying and exalting God for all of eternity through Jesus, you will not regret living for this.

Henry Kaestner Just and that was awesome. I mean, David’s message, you know, I’ve been following David now for maybe 15 years or so. Ever since he did Radical. I remember when we first launched sovereigns maybe 12 years ago going down to Birmingham medium in person. And this passion that he had that was radical, you know, as in the book and look, you know, on 12 or 15 years on since we first connected and sort of following him here, he’s developed an appreciation for the marketplace and seen it as an instrument to bring the gospel out, but to bring discipleship down. And then then also, as he started to partner with this, with some of the things we’re doing, solving more serious problems, I mean, just this whole full complement of the body of Christ, getting out there, thinking about risk differently and his just the way that he presents the message is so compelling. It’s convicting. But increasingly I think it’s becoming much more actionable. So instead of just like, this is wrong, this is broken, wake up, Gary. Go fix it. The nuance in the way that he brings together a strategy about how to partner with entrepreneurs and investors in the marketplace and where each one finds its own role, It’s really, really compelling. He’s become a great thought partner on that for us, hasn’t he?

Justin Forman Yeah, he has. It really is something like, you know, I mean, I can’t remember how many times I’ve read the story. You hear the story of Esther, you hear Mordecai, you hear all these actors. But I love just how a simple reframing of language can give you a new perspective. And just the way that David will work that end of like it just so happens, it just so happens, it just so happens. And when you see that woven through history. And then you see a pastor like you mentioning saying it just so happens that globalization has happened. It just so happens it travels. And it just so happens that business today is more connected globally than it’s ever been. It just so happens that the church has been about God’s crusade and the mission and in this for so long. But yet entrepreneurs have this pent up demand that’s kind of saying like, Man, I want to get in the game. And it just so happens that the world is knocking on their door more than ever. It just so happens that trust. It just so happens that they’re looking them. I mean, the statistic in that idea and listeners of podcasts have heard us talk about this before that how small business owners today are nine times more trusted than politicians. Some of the people that we look to to solve problems in the past are not the answer of today. And we trust small business owners and entrepreneurs in a unique way. And when you see a pastor getting behind that mission and that message, you know, we’ve talked about this before. If we talked about pride, we talked about that there’s easy times where we can think and whether it’s in entrepreneurship or in the church or everything that’s all about this program, this idea, this thing. But when you see a guy like David saying now it’s about unleashing people to go out, unleashing people beyond a program, beyond schedule activity to wherever it is that God called them, man, what a gift it is to see a pastor say that. Man. It’s just such an encouragement to so many.

Henry Kaestner Yeah, it is. And also it’s just you get super motivated by their extension that stories for such a time as this. And so when you look at all the different complexities in the world and the just you know on one hand 2 billion people living on less than $10 a day, a very large number of them professing the name of Christ and also war that’s going on, but also incredible exponential advances in artificial intelligence and genetic therapies. And it’s almost overwhelming. But God in his infinite sovereignty knew that we would be here as feature in our stories for such a time as this In here, with all the incredible complexity advancing God’s kingdom under His power for his glory and so leaning in as not for just realizing that God saw this happen, knew it, and saw us as being worthy of being on the planet, solving problems to advance his kingdom. In this day and age, it’s super motivating.

Justin Forman It is. It’s super motivating. I love how David just finished that talk where he just talks about this idea of like, You will not regret it. You will not regret stepping into this. You will not regret chasing that big dream that God has for his stepping into this adventure, giving that purpose. I love the map. When you talked about Paul’s journey and he talked about at the end and the perspective that he gave about Paul, and he’s talked about the early missionary journeys and his goal to reach Spain. But in his lifetime that didn’t happen. And yet in the picture, in the thing that he showed there at the conference talking about what happened in the decades, in the years to come in that perspective, that the gospel did indeed get there. And it’s sometimes he calls us to be more of that Moses than the Joshua. Maybe he calls us to the edge of that promised land, but we might not go in and see it. And to think entrepreneurs in their faithfulness in this moment, they might not ever see the perspective of families change. They might not ever see how a city, a community or the next generation might be changing. But man, isn’t that exciting. Isn’t that exciting to think about that perspective? Sometimes you want to see it. You want to be able to kind of like get a glimpse of it, but like to think of something that could be bigger than your lifetime. Bigger than something that you might see, man. Like, we all want that. And I think when you see that laid out in the gospel and you see the moment that we’re in, that’s what we’re living in. We’re living in something so much bigger than this moment. So much bigger than this age. This is the moment. These are the years that are going to echo for decades to come.

Henry Kaestner Indeed, so far, true or not, towards joining us all, just getting down our knees and just celebrating, praising God that we are in the place we are, because it just so happens that we have the background and the experience that we have. And it just so happens that we have this support system and, you know, around us. And it just so happens that there’s a unique time in the market in your community for you to innovate. And it just so happens, most importantly, that there’s a God who loves you so much that he sent his son to die for you. And it’s out of joy and gratitude for that realization that we come and is the motive for us to innovate and to create. So grateful for David Partner. I’m grateful for you. I’m grateful for the podcast and we don’t get a chance to thank them enough, but we get a whole team behind us that makes us look and sound good. And of course, there’s only so much they can do to make me look good, but they at least make me sound good. And I’m grateful to people like Julian. I’m grateful to Richard Bala and Joey Ionescu and just the whole faith driven crowd that makes this happen. And I’m grateful to you. So many listeners have come to me and said, I heard about the podcast from a friend of mine afford it. And so as the Spirit moves you to share this podcast with, others know that that would be great encouragement to us if not them.

Justin Forman Yeah. Hey, one other thing, Henry. I can’t help but leave us with this other thought. It just so happens that guys like David have raised their hands that, Hey, I want to be also about encouraging other pastors that are wrestling through this issue, that are wrestling through this idea. They don’t know how to make sense of it. You know, sometimes we want to tight box and a program to fit it in and sometimes we would just want a safe place to wander and to stretch our mind to think what this could look like. And, you know, it’s been a fun thing in the making. But here in the coming weeks, you’re going to start to hear about an event that we’re doing in February, an online event that is going to gather pastors together with this message and to wrestle through what it looks like. We’re going to have some teaching from Nikki Gumbel, Derwin Gray, David Platt, bunch of other friends that are going to be speaking about this, from pastors to other pastors. But we’re also inviting entrepreneurs to be a part of that conversation, too. And so if you are thinking about this issue and thinking, man, this would be a gift to bring this ministry and this program or this course to our church. This is a chance to do that. So you can attend that event through the gracious support of donors. This is an event that is free and that we are not only just going to say, here’s a conference and experience that think different, but we’re going to give it tools so that if you so choose to run a ministry and a program there in your church, that all of that will be fully accessible to you, no cost and catch when it’s an exciting day in the moment of the movement where pastors are saying something here is happening and it’s time to listen. It’s time to learn and time to wrestle through this together. And so we’re really looking forward to that. So details to come here soon. Stay tuned for that. But so grateful for David and his friendship and partnership and continuing to do that with us.

Henry Kaestner I am too. I am too super excited about February. Partnership with a local church is really key, but it takes most of our listeners are going to be featuring not from ours, not pastors, for you to go ahead and come to your pastor and encourage them to go to the conference in February, but then just generally to partner to reach out to these faith or not friends that are in your church and in your community. It takes a partnership and it probably takes you initiating that contact. So please pray and think about doing that and let us know if we can help you. By the way, online, on YouTube, we’ve got a great video. The Dear Entrepreneur video. Is that great? That’s a great tool for folks to use.

Justin Forman Yeah, great tool. If you’re looking for something for three minutes to share with your pastor and to have that conversation bridge to pieces of a conversation that has a great piece, short clip, I would really encourage you do your entrepreneur search it on YouTube. You’ll find it on our website. That can be a great tool to bridge that conversation and bring this to the forefront.

Thanks for listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our ministry exists to equip and resource entrepreneurs just like you. With content and community. We know entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey, but it doesn’t have to be. We’ve got groups that meet in churches, coffee shops, living rooms and boardrooms around the world. Find one in your area or volunteer to lead one and bring this global movement to your own backyard. There’s no cost, no catch, just connection. Find out more at faith driven entrepreneur.org.

I came to the somewhat shocking conclusion that I was one of the greediest generations of evangelical Christians ever to inhabit planet Earth. Richard Garnett

In this episode of the Faith Driven Investor Podcast, join Justin Forman as he honors the life and legacy of Richard Garnett, a faith-driven entrepreneur and actor who recently passed away after a courageous decade-long battle with cancer.

This poignant episode features a powerful teaching from Richard himself, focusing on investing in what truly matters. As we reflect on Richard’s recent passing, his message takes on new depth and urgency. Tune in for an inspiring exploration of intentional living, generosity, and the art of cherishing each moment.

If you’d like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.

Justin Forman Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur and Faith Driven Investor podcast. It is a gift to be with you guys today. There are some days more than others that we just look around and appreciate and have perspective of making the most out of every moment and not taking for granted anything that we have in front of us. And this is one of those days. About a week ago, a friend forwarded a story of Richard Garnett, and it was a talk that he had given some time ago. But we got a chance to watch it and listen to how is it a professional actor of 15 years and TV and film and theater? He went on to be a feature of an entrepreneur and a faith driven investor and thinking intentionally about how to be generous with his time, how to be generous with the things that he was stewarding. And man, there are times when you can hear theory, you can hear idea. And then there’s times when you hear people’s story. And when you hear people’s story in light of the moment and what they’re battling and battling health and sickness and the journey that Richard was on, that somehow those pictures become that much more real and that much more vivid. And last week, Richard went home to be with Jesus after battling cancer for the past ten years. And there are a few messages that I think I’ve heard in the last year or the last ten years that are as powerful as this. So we wanted to share this with you. We’re grateful for our friends, McClellan Foundation and others that captured this and wanted to share this with the movement so that it might be an inspiration and encouragement and a challenge to us all. Let’s listen.

Richard Garnett I’m Richard, and I’m dying. And I thought I’d tell you my story. I work in financial services, and one of my favorite clients, their headquarters is in Brussels. And if you go into the men’s toilets in their offices in Brussels, in front of each men’s urinal is a sheet of A4. It’s laminated for obvious reasons, and it has on it what’s called their lessons from the Loo. It’s basically all the deals that went south where they’ve lost 20, 30, 40, 50 million and the lessons that they’ve learned. So what I’d love to share with you is my lessons from the loo of life when it comes to money.

Richard Garnett I became a Christian when I was 16. For the first half of my life, first 20 years, God called me to be a professional actor. That didn’t involve making a lot of money, you’ll be surprised to know. I was taught to give the first 10% to the church and the other 90% you can do with what you want. Actually, we couldn’t afford orange juice. We couldn’t afford biscuits. Didn’t amount to much. And then in the late 90s, I was in Japan doing some Shakespeare. I’d been away from home for five months and our third daughter was born. And I cried out to God for a way to earn a living that didn’t involve living out of a suitcase. And he very graciously answered my prayer.

Richard Garnett I was asked long story cut short by the chairman of one of the largest companies in the world that I never heard of to kind of help him do his speeches and do his communication. And that started the journey of what we and my team do for the last 25 years. Basically, we help people persuade other people to give them hundreds of millions of pounds. And the challenge of that is I will find myself earning in half a day or a day what I had been earning in a week, two weeks, a month as an actor. What did I do with that? Well, 10% went to the local church. The rest of it, I’d been told, was mine to do with what I wanted. So what did I do? I looked around my church. I looked around my town where I live. I without even thinking about it, I inflated my lifestyle. What had been holidays in the UK became holidays abroad. What was will wool became cashmere. The kids went to private school. We moved out every five years because we could; up and up the property ladder. And after a while I felt a deep disquiet that that was the right thing to do. And.

Richard Garnett You know, Jesus tells the story about the farmer who has excess at the end of the year and builds barns. Can you remember the word that Jesus uses to describe that farmer; the fool. I was that fool. I came to the conclusion that I was a living embodiment of foolishness. Now, Jesus had some advice, actually, kind of at the back end of that story, he says, ‘Be rich towards God.’  But what did that actually look like?

Richard Garnett So I started to do some research. And what I found staggered me. If you take evangelical Christians in the world, 20% of them reside in the West. Let’s call it North America, Europe, the UK, and 80% reside in the rest of the world. So you’ve got the wealthy church and the poor church, the wealthy church, evangelical Christians in the in the West. Guess every year what proportion of our income we give away. 2.5%. I came to the somewhat shocking conclusion that I was one of the greediest generations of evangelical Christians ever to inhabit planet Earth. We give out 2.5% to our local churches. On the whole, they spend roughly statistically 50% on buildings, 25% on the staff team, 10% on missions. Some of that goes abroad. Net what does that mean? That means for every hundred pounds that God gives to evangelical Christians in the West, 25 pence goes outside the West. One quarter of 1%. And this didn’t strike me as fair.

Richard Garnett So what was my responsibility to that? I didn’t consider myself wealthy. I basically drove a Ford Mondeo estate. I had clients who earned 100 million a year. They were wealthy. I wasn’t. And I did the research. Guess how much you have to earn to be in the top 1% of the wealthiest people on the planet. 30,000 pounds a year. I was earning more than 30,000 pounds a year. I was at the top of God’s financial pyramid. If God wanted to fund His work around the world, I’d be the first person that He came to.

Richard Garnett So what did I do? I opened a stewardship account. We upped our giving percentage. And then the question was, Well, who do we give to? So at the time, my local church was raising 4 million for a building refurbishment program. And I can remember saying to my vicar, I’m not sure if God had 4 million spare. He’d invested in that. Now, leaving aside the extraordinary hypocrisy of me saying that having moved from a perfectly fine four bedroom house to the five bedroom house, that was my do wrapper. Leaving aside that hypocrisy, I still thought that was the right thing to say. So we did support our local church, but also we determined that most of it would go overseas because that’s where the huge opportunity for the gospel is and that’s where the massive needs are.

Richard Garnett So where? So my clients are very smart investors and one of their principles are invest in great people doing great things. So that’s what I prayed for. Great people doing great things. There was a girl in our church. She’d just come back from a gap year. She was 18 years old. She went to Romania and in her gap year she found five and seven year olds sleeping off the streets. So she started an orphanage in her gap year. She wanted money. There was money in our pot and our stewardship pot. We supported her. Then my business partner took me to Uganda to an orphanage. I didn’t want to go to Africa, frankly. The idea horrified me. But he dragged me there. He bribed me to go there. And what I found astonished me. I found couples had moved into the African bush at the height of the Aids crisis. Christian couples and they built a house and the house had three rooms. In the first room they put seven beds for the seven orphaned girls they adopted. In the second room, they put another seven beds for the seven orphaned boys they adopted. In the third room is where they lived.

Richard Garnett And I suddenly had this epiphany. I’m not part of some irrelevant subculture of Christians in the UK. Believe in weird stuff. I’m part of a global network of inspirational, extraordinary people doing amazing things, and they could do with my help. And I had enough money in the pot to help them. I can remember taking my daughter there and we went on holiday to one of Uganda’s national parks. It’s beautiful. And when I was on holiday, I suddenly thought, I wonder if these kids have been on holiday in their own country. And I said to Sam, how much would it cost to actually take these 80 kids in their parents community of 150 people on holiday, Probably the only holiday of their life to one of their own national parks. And he gave me the number. Do you know what the number was? It was less than we would spend on a bog standard two week holiday in Europe for a family. There was money in the pot.

Richard Garnett Jesus said something really interesting about money. He says where your treasure is, then will your heart be? When I invested in that holiday, it gave me such joy. Such joy, and it still does to this day. And the more I invested in this kingdom, the more joy I got. More than the joy of a new house, a foreign holiday, whatever it might be.

Richard Garnett And then somebody said, Why don’t you meet a man called Eric in Paris? We’ll meet at the bistro. Never a hard thing to do to have a meeting in a Parisian bistro. I went there and I said, Eric, what are you doing? He said, This was the beginning of the 2000s. I want to use the Internet to convert the French. Good luck with that. How are you doing that? This was the beginning of the Internet, by the way. So my corporate clients were using the Internet, but I hadn’t met a Christian who was doing it. He said, I’m converting the gospel into like a seven minute YouTube video called The Father’s Love Letter. And then strategically using Google AdWords to draw people to watch it. And when they watch it, they can click on a link if they want to become a Christian. I went, That’s smart. So what are you finding in terms of conversion rates? He said for every 100 people who watch it, four people say they want to become a Christian. I went, That’s extraordinary. And what’s your vision? He said, Well, I want to translate it into the other major languages. There are 30 of them English, Spanish, Farsi, Japanese, Chinese, etc., etc. But how much would that cost? He gave me a number. There was money in my pocket for it. And I’ll tell you, I came out of that meeting and I’ll tell you how I felt.

Richard Garnett Imagine it’s about 20, 30 years ago. You’re in Harvard. Next door to you is a strange man called Mark Zuckerberg. And he wanders in one day and he said, I’m going to start this thing. I’ve got a weird name for it, Facebook, but I need some cash. And if you give me some cash, I’ll give you shares in the business. If you knew then what you know now, what would you sell in order to get shares? Be the first investor in Facebook. I would sell everything and wander around in underpants for a year. I’d persuade my parents to sell their home to cash in their chips. That’s what I felt like. My my mindspace moved from. What’s the minimum percentage I can get away with before God? And what is the most I can get for a turtle treasure? Here’s what I think God pays us. And this is chocolate money. Can you see this?

Richard Garnett It’s what you consume at Christmas. All the money we have this side of happiness. Chocolate money. We can consume it all when we invest it globally in what He’s doing locally, regionally, nationally. Internationally. It becomes eternal treasure. And suddenly I was thinking, why should I spend 20 grand on a car when I can buy a bill banger for five and invest 15 for eternity?

Richard Garnett Long story short, I’ll take you to 2005. Our marriage collapsed. I was feeling awful. What was my first response to that? I’ll buy myself a holiday home that will make me feel better. I like to say I like golf. I get somewhere there. And then a friend rang me up and said, Don’t be stupid, Richard. You’re self-medicating your pain. There are better things to do with the money and the work. There’s a devotional I love called God Calling, two old ladies about 100 years ago, Anonymous. When they prayed, Jesus spoke to them. And they write down. They wrote down what He said. And every January the 5th, I’d read this is what Jesus said to them about money.

Richard Garnett Don’t be afraid of poverty. Let money flow freely. I will let it flow in. But you must let it flow out. I never send money to stagnate only to those who pass it on. Keep nothing for yourself. Hoard nothing. Only have what you need and use.

Richard Garnett This is my law of discipleship. I wanted to be brave. I wanted to be brave. I wanted to be like that. I wanted to live without a safety net. So I stopped paying into my pension fund and I set my lifestyle. And then I determined to give whatever the excess was away to invest it in the kingdom. I wanted to do that, but it was terrifying. Every January, I’d feel the enemy say to me, Richard, because I’m self-employed, at the beginning of the year, my diary is empty. Every genre, I’d feel the enemy say to me, you know, this is the year you get found out. You know, there’s the year that nobody’s going to ring you. And I felt Jesus saying to me, Will you give me until Christmas, Richard? If you’re on a park bench at Christmas, we can have a conversation. For 15 years. I was filling that park bench and I’ve got 15 of these paper diaries in my bedroom to prove that you cannot give God that God meets your needs in every conceivable way. And that for me was really, really exciting to be part of that journey.

Richard Garnett And then I’ll take you to 2014. Christmas Eve. I’m in a hospital in Watford and a young man who looks like he’s about 16 is actually a doctor, comes and kneels down and looks up into my eyes. That’s never a good sign, is it? And he says, You’ve got cancer. We think you got cancer. On January the 5th, I was with an oncologist and they confirmed it. My cancer was mesothelioma. It comes from asbestos. They reckon it comes from asbestos in old theaters, actually, and it’s incurable. And they said you’ve got about a year, 18 months to live. At that point, my son, who was in the meeting, had his laptop over and he said, Dad, I found it. I said, What have you found? He said, I found him. He said, Tell him a joke. The oncologist was somewhat surprised. I said, okay, what’s the joke? You said? How do you treat a patient with me so clearly? Omar? As best as you can anyway. Memorable moments. Since then, I’ve had chemotherapy. Two big operations, 60 rounds of immunotherapy, 60 rounds of radiotherapy. Couple of months ago, they said the cancer’s move from the right lung to the left lung. It’s stopped working. So we’re going back to chemo. So I’m in the middle of chemo, so my brains are fog and I have to sit down and. Here’s my thought. The closer I get to death, the more grateful I am. Because I’ll tell you this. If somebody has got a servant, I’ve got the opposite. I’ve been awful at talking about my faith to other people. I’ve been dreadful at inviting people to Alpha or Christianity explored whatever it might be. But the fact that Jesus gave me an opportunity to invest some of the money that He’s given me in the first place. I mean, don’t you find it fairly hysterical that a rather stupid unemployed actor is is employed to advise people, to persuade other people to give them hundreds of millions of pounds? I find that ludicrous. But the chance to make a difference. We have a cancer club at church. It’s not the most popular club, to be fair. I like it. We’ve lost a few. We’ve gained a few over the years. One of my friends, Sandra, is dying at the moment and she said the closer I get to death, everything drops away. Apart from two things. Love the love that God has for me, the love that I have for others and making a difference every day. Can I make a difference? She coaches from her bed. Six people. She’s an extraordinary woman and I can resonate with that. The chance to make a difference is so important to me.

Richard Garnett A young man called Ed phoned me up a couple of years ago, said We found a people group in India that has no gospel presence at all, and we found 15 Indian evangelists who want to go full time to invest their time in reaching the gospel with them. I went, Ed, how much would that cost? He went, all in all, 15 full time evangelists, unreached people group. 12,000 pounds a year. 12,000 pounds a year to change the lives of an entire people group. That really excited me. It still does. Let me end with three things I’d love to say to you. Do you know if Western evangelicals gave not 2.5%, but 10%, do you know how much more money would flood into the kingdom every year? I’ll tell you, 100 billion pounds. That’s 100,000 million pounds. That’s the same that Putin is pouring into the war in Ukraine. Imagine that as a power for good across the West, across the world.

Richard Garnett But I’m not asking you to be more generous of that reason. It’s for purely selfish reasons. This side of heaven. I’ve known very few things that give more joy than being a part of what God is doing financially and in eternity. Actually, we get this treasure. What is this treasure? John Lennox, who many of you know is a mass professor at at Oxford, a lovely Christian man, and he’s written a book on what to do when we invest our time and treasure and talent. And he uses the story that Jesus tells of the dodgy steward. He used money to buy friends. And he says, when we invest our time and our treasure in what God is doing, we. We make friends. We make friends. I have friends all over the world. By God’s grace. And I’m so looking forward to getting to Harvard because we can sit down and I’m going to hear their stories. And the fact that I’ve been able to play some tiny, tiny, tiny, minuscule part in their stories thrills me now. And I know Will through me then I hope that’s part of my treasure.

Richard Garnett One of my great heroes in life is a man called George Mueller. For those of you who don’t know, George Mueller was a Victorian German gentleman who got called to move to Bristol, and God called to look after orphans. And in the course of his life, he looked after 10,000 orphans. And he’s one of the founding fathers of orphan care in the UK. George Mueller life as to extraordinary elements to it. Number one, he never asked anybody for money. And looking after 10,000 orphans costs a lot of money. The only person he asked was God. Every day he asked God and God gave him. 210 million pounds at today’s prices. Now, why could God trust him so much? I think the second thing that makes Muller extraordinary is of the 210 million pounds that God gave him, he gave away to other ministries all across the world. 70 million. One third he gave away. Do you know what Miller’s legacy is? Because at some time he supported 200 missionaries in China. Well, his legacy isn’t just what he’s achieved in the UK. It’s the growth of the Chinese church. Muller’s legacy, 150 years later, is 120 million Christians in China who are there because partly of what he funded. So my question to you is, are you not just serving your local communities and your churches, but are you serving the global church? Because Western money can make a huge difference.

Richard Garnett Let’s take the 4 million that we spent on our refurbishing our church. If you invested 1 million and you gave it to my friend Ed and the charity called 500 K in India. India, you know, has 500,000 villages with no Christian presence at all. 1 million. There would support 500 full time evangelists for three years and lead to the planting of between 1000 and 1500 churches. If you put 1 million to work in Africa, where so many families live on less than a dollar a day, and you gave it to a Christian charity called Five Talents, you’d actually support 10,000 women. The poorest of the poor. To be able to read and write and count and save and earn their way out of poverty. If you invested 1 million in Bible translation because we know without the Bible, you can’t evangelize. And still 2 billion people on the planet with no translation of scripture in their heart language. If you invest in just 1 million, you be able to translate the Bible for a people group of 20 million. And make God’s story accessible to them. And then if you were really strategic and you decided to use the Internet to access the 12 least rich countries in the world, you know what 1 million would achieve if you gave it to Jesus dot net, who are very smart at this stuff. You’d basically, in those 12 countries, enable the gospel to be seen 100 million times, which would lead to 200,000 people indicating that they wanted to come to Christ and to be followed up on line. Think of the difference that 4 million can make around the world. The last thing I want to say is this. Thank you. Thank you. And bless you in everything you have done for his kingdom and everything you are doing and in everything you will do. Bless you.

Justin Forman After listening to that message, there might not be a lot of words that need to be said. I can’t think of many, but I hope that you’re inspired. I hope that you’re challenged. I hope that you’re encouraged. I hope that if you’re listening on this on the drive home, that it gives you just a whole booster shot of energy when you run into the things of your family. If you’re running into the workplace, would it leave all of us with this idea that it’s worth the trade, it’s worth the trade of living a life that’s fully alive, living a life that is staring into the headwinds of what society and what culture might say, but saying we are living for something so much bigger than this world. Many of you guys might have a chance to join that conversation even this week. The Faith Driven Entrepreneur Conference. I pray along that journey that you might find friends, that you might find community, that you might find people and fellow travelers that you can lock arms with and live that intentional life, that surrendered life that Richard just shared with us. God, I pray blessings on each and every entrepreneur as they’re listening to this. I’m so grateful for the words that you have given that you gave Richard and that you shared with us today. May we? We’ve challenged and inspired to live fully a life fully devoted to you. And it’s in your name we pray. Amen.

For every 1000 people you influence, you have 100 critics. Rick Warren

Join Grammy-nominated artist Lecrae Moore, along with Faith Driven Movement co-founders Justin Forman and Henry Kaestner, as they delve into the challenging yet crucial topic of handling criticism. In this insightful episode, our guests share:

• Lecrae’s personal experiences with criticism in the music industry

• Biblical perspectives on receiving and processing feedback

• Strategies for distinguishing between constructive criticism and unproductive negativity

• The importance of knowing your true audience and purpose

• How to use criticism as a tool for growth and refining your entrepreneurial vision

Whether you’re a seasoned business leader or just starting your entrepreneurial journey, this conversation offers valuable wisdom on turning criticism into a catalyst for personal and professional development. Tune in to learn how faith can guide you through the challenges of leadership and innovation.

If you’d like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.

Joey Honescko You’re listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. A show dedicated to the movement of founders and leaders around the world who are using their businesses for the glory of God and the good of others. Let’s get into it.

Justin Forman Are you West Coast, East Coast. For everybody listening.

Henry Kaestner Where I am, back on the West Coast, our first full week actually in California for the entire summer. But bunch of things going on. Drop the younger two off at college. The oldest one going back is on the course. It’s on three boys at college. This is not a great year for cash flow, but it’s a great year to celebrate launching kids.

Justin Forman Indeed. Indeed. A new chapter for you and Kimberly.

Henry Kaestner It is. It’s actually a big deal. It is also a time of year where two other things happen. One is that Nikki and Pepper will go through the lessons from the good and bad kings of Judah. One of my favorite things is Phaedra, not us. Going back to these any biographies, if you will, of the Good Kings of Judas. Fascinating. Maybe. Definitely my favorite part of the Old Testament. But the other part is that this is the season where we’re just coming along toward the conference, right?

Justin Forman Indeed it is. We coincided with the start of college football, so we try to make sure that we get in there just at the same time as college football. So, you know, as people are returning, you know, to traditions, to routines. Pick up your college football and then pick up the fifth through an entrepreneur conference. So, yeah, it’s an exciting time. So now we’re getting ready for that here, just in a couple of weeks of September 20th for those of you guys are gonna be taking it live and over probably 220 different locations around the world. It is one of the most exciting days for our team because we get to see and experience the impact and get to be with entrepreneurs and so many different places. I know it’s such an encouragement to our crew just to get out there and to be with everybody. And it’s fun to hear all the stories, whether it’s friends gathering in a living room or people packing out room in a church. It’s just fun to see the different ways that we’re all gathering it is.

Henry Kaestner So today we’ve got a really important topic and we’ve never addressed criticism. I think, I don’t know, 350 episodes of the podcast. And yet criticism is such a part of our lives. We give it out, we take it as entrepreneurs, we get a lot of it, and the Bible’s got a lot to say about criticism. We can unpack that a little bit. But one of our favorite partners on the content side for Fate Driven Entrepreneur and then featuring on Tomorrow for students is Lecrae right?

Justin Forman Indeed, yeah. Look, it’s great to spend some time together as we’re filming for students and for this conference and so excited for people to see a glimpse into his story at the conference. We’re going to be debuting this new story that we filmed with him and Ben and just the story of Rich Records and one that I think is really similar to a lot of people’s entrepreneurial venture, that one faithful step that leads to another, that leads to another. And you’re looking back at a pattern of long obedience and a similar direction. It’s just fun to capture that story and see both ourselves in that where we are today, but also for our kids to see themselves in that story. And so, yeah, we’re really looking forward to sharing that and debuting at the conference. And today we filmed something special, something extra of a little bit behind the scenes of some of the talks that he gave. And he riffed on some of these topics. And as Henry mentioned, criticism. It’s something so practical and it faces us most days. And so we wanted to start off by sharing a little bit of this excerpt from that, and then we’ll pick up the conversation afterwards. So let’s go ahead and play that clip.

Lecrae Moore The problem with bridges is that they get walked on from both sides. Now, I experienced this most when I released my album, Rehab. Secular critics didn’t understand it because it felt so Christian, and many of my core Christian fans didn’t understand it because they were used to me playing the pastor rapper role. Still, I was certain that I was moving in a direction and God was calling me. And this album felt like a new beginning.

Lecrae Moore Rehab caught the attention of some mainstream influencers, and I was invited to participate in the B.E.T. Cipher And this is an event in conjunction with the BET Hip Hop Awards with some of the best young rappers gather to rap 16 bars and show off their talent. Those familiar with this cipher know this can make or break an artist. This was a watershed moment, so I knew I couldn’t just spit out a few lyrical bars like everyone else. Sure, I wanted to have a good delivery, but I also wanted to show everyone that you can be excellent at your craft and true to your faith. At the same time, I eventually just decided to rap what I felt.

Lecrae Moore You probably watching like I never heard of him. A murder him. The nerve of him. Rock n with premiere. That’s so absurd of him. Wait until he split a couple verbs at them. If you really want to hate. Wait, he got the word when I heard him holler. Jesus. The Notorious. No. The most glorious homie.

Lecrae Moore Some Christians who saw it weren’t happy with me using the Notorious B.I.G. Reference to talk about Jesus. It didn’t like me giving a nod to DJ Premier, whose produced for most of mainstream hip hop elite. But I had just taken the same approach as Paul in Acts chapter 17. Look it up and I think you’ll see what I mean.

Lecrae Moore Our situations weren’t that much different. I remember talking with Pastor Rick Warren afterwards. I told him of how I was struggling with the fallout. He said, for every 1000 people you influence, you have 100 critics. And many of them will be Christian. That just comes with the territory.

Lecrae Moore What I came to realize is that critics always have a lot of fury, but they rarely have a lot of facts. Still, critics can make a lot of noise in our heads and hearts and that can be a difficult thing to navigate whether you’re a musician or an entrepreneur, because as much as we want to act like the opinion of other people, doesn’t matter. It does. Why?

Lecrae Moore As entrepreneurs, we’re building, innovating and creating in an effort to make sense of a broken world. We see a problem we can solve or a gap we can feel in Our expression of that is something the whole world sees. Of course, we want our creation to be accepted because in a way it makes us feel accepted. But we’re grasping for acceptance from a broken world we’re trying to make sense of. If we can step back for a moment, we see how impossible this is.

Lecrae Moore Even Jesus experienced the ups and downs of physical acceptance. As Pastor Rick said, even the 12 Christ followers who supposedly knew Jesus best were full of criticism. Here’s my encouragement to you. If you get this now, it’ll help you immensely. As creators, builders and leaders. We’re stepping out into the unknown. We’re connecting dots in new and unique ways, and that can be difficult for some people to accept. What did Jesus do? He would escape the crowds to be with God. He would look to God for acceptance. And when he felt most beaten down, Jesus would ask his Father in heaven for strength and guidance.

Lecrae Moore Criticism is going to come for us as entrepreneurs. Especially as we disrupt the status quo. How we handle it is something we take with us through life, a career, and certainly if we’re called to lead. Leadership is lonely. It’s tough. It can change the world. It can impact people’s lives around us. Good. Challenging and everything in between. Leadership can come at a great cost to us. Handling criticism with grace and humility is a skill to develop and work through. Becoming secure in our identity, knowing where we are and in the end, where we’re going. This internal mindset can give us the confidence we need to step into the arena with a superpower that is uncommon for me.

Henry Kaestner So, Justin, you and I have the occasion to interact with people in LinkedIn and in different circles. And of course there’s our loyal podcast crowd that’ll come in with encouragement, which is awesome, but also some criticism. But what we get, of course, pales in comparison to somebody that’s been nominated for Grammys. And what I love, what Lecrae did right there was he unpacked something we all deal with as entrepreneurs, we all deal with as leaders and really kind of laid out a framework that I think is really helpful for how I think about criticism, both in how I perceive it and also maybe even in terms of how I give it. How about you?

Justin Forman Yeah. And just powerful stuff. I think like, as you said, entrepreneurs were disrupting or breaking mold. Yeah. And I think there’s few times when you think about the church, when you think about entrepreneurs, that when you’re going to turn things upside down, when you’re going to change things, when you’re going to change and go against the grain, which is so much of what entrepreneurship is, that you’re going to get that feedback, You’re going to get some people that are going to praise you and think it’s the greatest thing in the world. And some people that that are going to be pretty loud about what they don’t like. And you know, one of the things I love about what he’s talking about is I think maybe it’s in other places where Lecrae said this is, you know, if you live for their acceptance, you’ll die from their rejection. And I think one of the most fundamental things here that like where he starts us off is just this idea of like, what is our audience? You know, we talk about this all the time in entrepreneurship where we can, you know, slide into different things, slide into different audiences. Who is it that we are really trying to reach? And you can talk about that from a marketing perspective, but it’s really easy to talk about that from this perspective when you talk about criticism is like, who is it that your audience is? Who is it that you’re playing for? And I think if we’re honest, so many of us slide into an audience that we’re seeking the acceptance of the world. We’re seeking the praise of the world, we’re seeking the praise of peers, We’re seeking that more than we’re seeking from the perspective and, you know, appreciation from our Heavenly Father. And in his trite is that my sound, I think we slide into that a whole lot more than we realize.

Henry Kaestner There’s no doubt about it. I think you bring up something there. It’s really important. It’s about who is our audience. And I think that there’s so much here. I think on one hand, I’m tempted to just think just about what Teddy Roosevelt had to say, which is that the credit belongs to the man who’s actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who heirs who come short again and again because there’s no effort without error and shortcoming by who actually strives to do the deeds, who knows the great enthusiasms, etc.. And I think about that. And part of me thinks that, gosh, we should just really shut down criticism because you’re not in the arena and we should play for an audience of one. And yet, as we understand who our audience is, the counterpoint in the Bible would be that whoever he’s life giving correction will be at home among the wise. The question is how do we look to get great feedback with iron sharpening iron from those that we want to serve, those that we want to lead to make our products and services that much more effective. So we can’t shut it down to say, okay, they’re not in the arena, we’re not going to listen to them, although I love Teddy Roosevelt, but how do we thoughtfully kick in the right type of criticism? I think maybe what you’re suggesting is it starts with knowing who are audiences and it be able to listen for that criticism from them rather than just being deflated by all criticism from audiences.

Justin Forman Yeah, I think you can easily conflate criticism like, you know, maybe the proverbial through taking criticism from inside the church or from something outside the church. And we’re talking about people that are in the arena or outside the arena. I mean, it’s easy to go back to like John 15 or it talks about like if the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as your own as it is. You do not belong to the world. But I have chosen you out of the world. This is why the world hates you. And so when you hear some of that and you can see that the criticism that we’re going to get from those people that don’t understand or why they don’t understand our perspective, they don’t understand our frame, it’s really easy for people to give you no criticism when they don’t understand where you’re coming from. I think if we separate, that is what you’re kind of getting at and saying, okay, that’s promised, that is guaranteed. We need to figure out how to deal with that and be winsome in how we share story and respond to that. But then we’ve got to separate the other side of things to say, okay, what is it about the person in the arena that is giving you that feedback? And I know what you’re hearing, but like there is something that when you get criticism and you get feedback from a fellow believer that in the trenches it’s maybe on a similar entrepreneurial venture, there’s probably a unique way that we listen to that a little bit different. Not necessarily saying it better, but like we listen to it differently because there’s our respect and understanding. You feel like you’re kind of coming from some similar wise. But I think the first step I think, is important, as you’re saying, to separate the two audiences and to know what kind of criticism that is we’re receiving.

Henry Kaestner Yeah. Just as a mash up with so many different things, because I also think about considered pure joy, my brothers and sisters when you go through trials. So I think that may be a framework because I love frameworks. Maybe another illustration that we’ve all heard might be helpful here, and that is how we think about and take on prophecy. Where we’re to go ahead and to listen to it and then to carefully go back to Scripture and find out where whatever the prophet says is consistent with God’s word. In this case, knowing that taking on board criticisms important, especially from those in our audience. And if we do so and do well, it will be iron sharpening iron and we will be counted among the wise, as we just learned from Proverbs 1531 there. Maybe we take it on and then we bring to the Lord said, Lord number one, allow me only to hear the type of criticism that it’s helpful for me to achieve your purposes through me, under your power, for your glory. Because, Lord, gosh, I didn’t get sucked into this being about my glory and my glory gets really offended if people don’t like me. So Lord, please help me to mark that. But Lord, help me to see maybe through something from Godly counsel or through your word or through this prayer right now that will help me to understand what just came on board. That will help me to come up with a better product or service and it be better.

Justin Forman Yeah. And I love what you’re hitting on there because Lecrae did the same thing when he talked about looking at the patterns of his of life. And we look at the rhythms of what he’s going through with that. And, you know, I love his language. Ruiz is talking about Pastor Rick when talking about the analogy or the breakdown of like for every, you know, thousand praises you get, you have 100 critics. But then he went on to talk about this idea of that as Jesus encountered criticism because he certainly did that he had a pattern of dealing with it. And that’s exactly what you’re mentioning, of withdrawing to having a moment to reflect, to pray, to ask for discernment in that, to handle that criticism with grace and humility and to walk through it. And so I think there’s a moment that our flesh and our heart, when we hear that criticism, that’s where our most vulnerable. That’s when we like using our football language for the season that we’re in. You’re you’re in danger of being drawn offsides. But if you have that moment to pull away, to reflect the process with your counselors, your friends, your people that can speak and help you see those blind spots. That is the first step because so often times, what are some of the criticism that ends up worse and ends up in the news cycle? It’s the people that responded quick. It’s the people that responded fast. It’s that like it was tit for tat and it just went on and on and on. And then before you know it, you don’t even really know what the arguments about what the criticism is about where it all began. And I think you’re hitting on something so important is what does it look like, the pause? What does it mean to step back and absorb it?

Henry Kaestner Yeah. And, you know, it makes me reflect on something else that entrepreneurs, or at least I struggle with too, and that is pride. And I said at the outset of the program that I’m going through it. There are good and bad kings of dude. I’m in Second Chronicles. I love it. And I think about some of the good kings like Isaiah and Hezekiah, who were, you know, after God’s own heart and they were doing great things, and yet pride crept in. So criticism provides us this kind of like barometer with how we’re doing on Pride, because without it’s kind of hard. I mean, if we’ve got godly counsel and people can speak the truth in our lives, yeah, it’s there. But when criticism comes on board, it’s this moment to say, okay, this is hard for me to hear. Why? And to what extent is it my pride that is obfuscating the real opportunity to get barrier or is this on its merits or what does that look like? And so I like that part of it for me, which is it’s like, okay, this makes me feel uncomfortable. Is my pride wounded? And if that’s it, if it’s my pride being wounded, I probably have the pride problem.

Justin Forman Yeah, it’s such a good thing. I think it’s funny, isn’t it? I mean, like, you can hear a thousand praises and then it’s a handful of criticisms that seem to linger. Like, I don’t know what it is about that, that we I mean, we know that we’re all full and we know that we’re broke and we know that there’s pride. We know that there’s all those things. But like, isn’t it strange how the words of a critic can sometimes linger on and hold on and dig roots a lot longer than other things? Some praise can kind of go in one ear, out the other, some encouragement, whatever it might be. But yeah, I think that’s a good challenge to search our souls to like, why does that criticism hit? Why are we wrestling of that? Why does it stick with us? Is it because we’re trying to carry some perception that. We’re ultimately going to fall short of. There’s just something to that ratio that just it’s so true and it’s so real, but it doesn’t make sense. The math clearly doesn’t add up.

Henry Kaestner Yeah. Well, great topic. I think this is one we can go into much deeper over time and maybe we’ll have some other great gold examples of people like Lecrae they’re really wrestling with. And I think that also it just helps us to understand that we should probably have more content talking about pride, and we’d love to hear from you, the audience too, about what are the different topics you’re wrestling with. Maybe where do we get it right on this episode? And encouragement is always great. And then maybe hear one of the critics and that we will be wiser. You’ll love on us. And a Proverbs 1531 way for us taking on board your feedback and your input about how to serve you. The future of natural our better.

Justin Forman Yeah, indeed. I’m excited about this. I’m excited about everybody getting a chance to hear from Lecrae at the conference in the event what a great opportunity is. I’m thrilled that the dad of three that conversations like this are going to happen with them at a young age. Because I love what Lucrezia talked about there at the end is if you get a hold of this early and I think we hear this in Jeremy Lin story as well, when we film, that is if you can get a hold and you can center and just understand your identity in Christ every day and understand who it is that you serve, man, what an opportunity. So really looking forward to that. Stay tuned for the student series is coming out later this fall in November. But for those of you that are listening, my biggest encouragement is not to walk this journey alone. Lock arms with fellow travelers on this journey and be a part of one of these faith through and entrepreneur groups and watch parties that are meeting up. So if you get a chance, check it out at the Faith of an Entrepreneur conference.org website or at the feature an entrepreneur website and find a location in your area. And if there isn’t one and take a step closer to a conversation, will be excited to see where that goes. You’ll be excited how you can be just a ripple and just a chain reaction of so many people being encouraged. It’s been ridiculously encouraging for Henry and I over the past six seven years to hear those stories of how one person’s faith wants to start. A group led to dozens and dozens and dozens of people thinking differently about how they see their work. So if you haven’t checked that out and.

Henry Kaestner I want to know before we sign off, I want to note that this year we are encouraging and those of you many of you are entrepreneurs at scale and there’s just stuff going on during the workweek to make this hard. But you’re a leader in your community and you can, in partnership with your pastor, say, we’re going to put in a bulletin announcement. We’re going to do it on a Saturday morning, and you both can draw people in because sometimes we just want to acknowledge, sometimes it’s hard to get away. But while it’s September 20th, we’re all seeing a lot of watch parties are going to be meeting after work hours. So there’s more flexibility in what we’re doing this year with the conference than we’ve ever had in the past. And if you say, you know what, September’s lousy for any one of a number of different reasons, but this is something I’d love to do on the first weekend of October, talk to our team, come inbound, let us know how we can serve you as you in turn, serve others.

Justin Forman Amen. Great to be with you and.

Joey Honescko Thanks for listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our ministry exists to equip and resource entrepreneurs just like you with content and community. We know entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey, but it doesn’t have to be. We’ve got groups that meet in churches, coffee shops, living rooms and boardrooms around the world. Find one in your area or volunteer to lead one and bring this global movement to your own backyard. There’s no cost, no catch, just connection. Find out more at faith driven entrepreneur.org.

In this episode, Joey, Justin, and Henry discuss the new initiative called Solving the World’s Greatest Problems. They address the skepticism around the audacious goal and emphasize the importance of being empowered by the Holy Spirit. They also highlight the role of the community in solving these problems and the need for collaboration and support. The initiative aims to provide clear next steps for individuals to build, invest, and give towards solving these problems. The podcast episodes focus on storytelling and creating a call to action for listeners.

For more information on Solving the World’s Greatest Problems go to https://www.solvingtheworldsgreatestproblems.org/.

If you’d like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.

Episode Transcript

Joey Honescko You’re listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast, a show dedicated to the movement of founders and leaders around the world who are using their businesses for the glory of God and the good of others. Let’s get into it. Welcome back, everyone to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I’m your host, Joey Honescko, alongside Justin Foreman and Henry Kastner. And today we’re talking problem solving on a massive scale. We’re going to talk about this new initiative. We have at Faith Driven Entrepreneur called Solving the World’s Greatest Problems. And this is sort of part one of two episodes, because next week, we’re going to premiere the first episode of the Solving the World’s Greatest Problems podcast. That is much more narrative. A lot of storytelling, a lot of interesting audio elements and things like that. So we’re going to get into all that in just a second. But first, gentlemen, how are you guys doing? How are you feeling about this episode?

Henry Kaestner We’re talking about something super important that gives me great energy and life, and hopefully it’ll give our audience the same. I should note, though, that I am back. All this stuff is top of mind because I’m just back from five and a half weeks on the road to include some great time in West Africa. So a lot of the things that I saw there and the just the success that God is growing in the marketplace, there is top of mind, perfect backdrop for our conversation with the two of you.

Justin Forman Yeah, perfect backdrop. Some of those travels, you know, and there’s a lot of that that’s going to drain you. But there’s also events and things along the way that fuel you. And when we were talking about solving the world’s greatest problems, I know Henry and I are just back from an incredible time at the Christian Economic Forum. Chuck Bentley, there’s such great, great legacy tradition work that’s been done there to gather so many of the movers, in this space, solving problems. And, man, it’s travel is tiring, but yet that is refueling. And what a ministry. What an opportunity it was for us to be there.

Henry Kaestner Indeed, indeed Quebec City to. I don’t know if there’s a prettier, more historic city in all of North America. That’s epic.

Joey Honescko Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, Justin, you just mentioned it. That idea of solving the world’s greatest problems. And I want to kick us off here because we’ve announced now that there’s a new initiative called Solving the World’s Greatest Problems. And I want to give us some time in this episode to go through the ins and outs of all that. But before we do that, we know on this podcast that I can be a bit of a skeptic and a bit of a cynic, and I think that I’m not the only one that’s an entrepreneur that can do that. So I want to start with the title of this initiative, because it is called Solving the World’s Greatest Problems, which is a, ambitious goal. And so I know you guys have thought about this. I know you guys are thoughtful about why you name the things, what, you name them. So I want to give you guys a chance to talk to the cynics like me that are saying, hey, that’s an audacious goal. That’s a big goal. Talk to us about how that’s still possible to seed the church, actually solve the world’s greatest problems.

Justin Forman Yeah, great. Great question. I could say that that’s what happens when you let the marketing team take an idea and run with it, and that’s what you get. But, I think it starts with where it ends. Where do we want this to land? And I’m often reminded of Jon Erwin, the film producer that we’re all familiar with. I Can Only Imagine, also doing some great stuff with the Wonder Project. And some of the content is going to continue to come out, and he’s often quoted as talking about this idea of like knowing your audience. So many filmmakers, producers are creating content from a place of their passion and what they feel. And when we think about this initiative, I think that we’re starting from a place of like, who are we creating this for? And, when we think about this and we think about solving the world’s greatest problems, we’re thinking about those people that are on the sidelines. Who are those people that aren’t in the game yet, right now, who are those people that have been casually observing, watching, or they’ve been stuck somewhere? And when we think about that audience, you know, some of that’s language, you know, I mean, we just had this incredible experience, like we talked about the Christian Economic Forum. There’s other great experiences that Henry and I are blessed to partner with and be a part of Praxis in some of their gatherings. But there’s only a limit, and there’s there’s a limit to how many people can make it to those events and be a part of those events and these dense networks and small communities. Solving the world’s greatest problems is trying to be that bridge. It’s trying to be that bridge to that next band of leaders. Outside of those conversation, maybe you can’t hop on the plane, you can’t be a part of that. And yet you feel this calling in your heart to say, how do we get involved? What does it look like to get in the game? And I think we wrestle through this a lot in the church. Then we talk about this in content languages. We conflate the audiences of people in the church and people out of the church. And sometimes we think the same message can hit the same people. And with solving the world’s greatest problems. We’re trying to, aim for those people that are outside the conversation. And when you do that, the question is, what has stopped them before. Why haven’t they paid attention? Is there language? Is it accessibility? Is it content? Is it some of those things. And I think. There’s so many people on there that have experienced the joy of the adventure that’s on the other side. But for those people that haven’t experienced it, haven’t taken that step. The question I’d have is it does it feel more like a duty and an obligation more than this joyful, fully alive journey? And I think people want that quest. They want that journey. They want that. You know, Lord of the rings adventure where there’s. It’s dangerous, there’s grit, it’s risk and all of that. And, when you think about that and you think about language and we think about the entrepreneurs and investors we’re trying to get in the game, and you think, what do entrepreneurs investors do? They solve problems. And when you think about the pains of the world, the opportunities of entrepreneurs, investors think it’s born a lot about this language. And this idea of the world has problems. We all sense it. We feel it. We turn the news on, how do we connect that and make it easy for entrepreneurs and investors to see themselves in that story? And when you talk about languages solving problems, nobody does that more. And nobody does that more often than entrepreneurs investors.

Joey Honescko Yeah, I love that. And I love that idea. Henry, I’ve heard you talk about this where, you know, it’s a big goal, but to some extent, I’ve heard you say the idea that it’s a big goal, but we serve a big God who does big things. And so it’s not just that we’re shouldering the load. The entrepreneurs and investors, not that they’re shouldering the load to solve these problems, but that they’re actually empowered by the spirit. And, Henry, I’ve heard you talk about that quite a bit. So I want to give you a little space to to kind of elaborate on that or add anything else you have on just this concept of solving the world’s greatest problems.

Henry Kaestner Yeah. Let me start off by saying I’ll join you has been a little bit of a skeptic or a cynic on this, at least in terms of the titling. When we first started talking about the title, I didn’t like it. We don’t solve problems under our own power, and if we solve them for our own glory, we’re in big trouble. Were redoing the Tower Babel all over again. And so the the tagline that accompanies solving world’s greatest problems has to be under God’s power and for his glory. I’m always a little bit skeptical when somebody comes in and says, hey, join us and change the world. It makes it sound like we can do that as humans and we can’t. We are in a battle and it’s not against flesh and blood. It’s a spiritual battle, and we stand no chance of being able to solve any problem or enter into any battle and emerge victorious without this full armor of God, sword of the spirit, shield of faith, breastplate of righteousness all complement. And yet. I also really like a title that it kind of explains what you’re doing, and we want the body of Christ to get rallied behind a cause that’s big and it’s bigger than them because there is a battle. There is a. Just a real opportunity to get out there on something bigger than ourselves. And, you know, we see wars at different places around the world right now, and we see people that are dying and willing to give up their lives for a much lesser causes than God’s power and God’s glory in his kingdom. How do we tap into that as a church, in a church that hasn’t been known as being very active on the front lines for quite some period of time? You know, to be clear, massive exceptions all around the world, the body of Christ courageously leaning in. And yet we want to be rallied to a cause and almost look, well, not almost just to be that cultural. Exemplar like we were back in the 1800s and early 1900s when we were building schools and churches, of course, but hospitals all around the world, we were different. People said, you know, I want what they have, right? Start talks about that. That’s when the body of Christ grows. So let’s rally people to a big issue, a big opportunity and saw be involved under God’s power for his glory in solving the world’s greatest problems because many of them. Can be solved. There are things we can make massive progress. The church is doing that. If we can rally more of us together to do it in community, it can be awesome. So let’s call it what it is solving world’s greatest problems. But let’s be clear that with ourselves, we can’t do anything but with the power in the form of God and His Spirit, we can.

Justin Forman Yeah. I mean, what a great place to start. And there’s no better place to be grounded is we have to recognize God calling us to be faithful and to step out. But this is all him. This is what he chooses to do, how he might choose to work. But I think I’ll push back a little bit on the skepticism side of things. I think there’s a skepticism or like, should we call it this big audacious call? Should we call this? And I’m wondering, where does that skepticism come from? And I think if our taking a stab at it, I think it’s because we bombarded with this idea that we can’t the world’s tallest, we can’t, you know, media, whatever it is, the airwaves that are being controlled are telling us that we can’t you know, we were talking about this analogy at a Christian economic forum. And, when we think about this initiative and we think about content, some of the first steps, like what’s the why and what’s the strategy? And I was reminded of this when we traveled, a couple months ago. We went to northern. So the continent and they’re in Europe, in Brussels and Amsterdam and, you know, on the flight over there, and got hooked on this, docu or the series, if you guys might be familiar with Masters of the air is kind of the follow up to Band of Brothers. It’s on Apple TV, and it follows the the path of the Hundredth Bombing Group. And what they did starting off in England, how they were bombing, continental Europe, trying to prepare for the invasion. And then they talked about this idea and they said, you know, we didn’t make the decision to move forward with Normandy. We didn’t make the decision to set foot there until we had air superiority, until we had control of the skies, because if not. You know, we’re sitting ducks and there’s no chance that we can really kind of accomplish that. And I think that some of the skepticism that’s out there is because the airwaves and we don’t have air superiority, we don’t have this in the church. We don’t even have it. We certainly don’t have it outside in church. And I’m wondering if we even have an inside the church. Have we convinced ourselves that it is possible? Have we seen enough stories to know that it is possible to find light breaking through this darkness? And so we’ve experienced that. We’ve all experienced in in different levels. When you hear the personal stories, we’ve seen that the videos we’ve seen, you know, see him re in the work in Singapore and tight end worth that. They’ve been doing it green hoping you know Anthony Tan and grab and move Terry Thomas and movement schools with Cassian. We see all of these places. But I think what’s missing is is we need a platform. We need a place in a space where we can see the church is winning and say, yes, this this is the kind of thing that makes us proud of the home team. This is the kind of thing that makes it things as possible. So yeah, it’s not a surprise to me that I think most of us are starting from a place of skepticism. But I think our first step is to recognize there are people all around us, both on the other side of the world and in our backyard, that are showing that it is possible, if you step out, that it is possible, and that combined and collectively, the church is winning a whole lot more than we think.

Henry Kaestner Yeah. God’s kingdom is advancing. Jesus came to announce the coming of the Kingdom of God. And, I think there are a lot of different folks that might think about this differently theologically. But, you know, when we pray, Lord, your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. I think that he might have us. I believe he has has been instruments of that under his power for his glory. And if his kingdom is advancing, we are in the process of solving those problems, building toward the New Jerusalem and and making all things new. And so let’s, I love what you talked there about their supremacy part. I think that that’s, and let’s go to the body of Christ and encourage him like we are show, let’s show the places where we’re winning and so that people and feel really good about the home team.

Justin Forman Yeah. And what I thought here and then I want to ask, kind of reverse the reverse the conversation here on Joey. I think one of the things when we talk about language of this initiative is that I think that we’ve gone as far as duty and obligation is going to take us in the church. I think we have to move into the place where we show the upside down adventure and the joy that comes with it. And I think part of that is a language conversation. I mean, we can look at the last 20 years, we can look at the last generation, the church. We can look at everything there. We know duty and obligation has either a low glass ceiling or it’s leading us in decline. And so when we think about the language of this, I think, yes, it’s audacious. Yes. It’s all what God wants to do with it, how he might take it, how he might use it. But the language that we use to rally people to it. How do we cut away from obligation and duty and more to the joy that is in that adventure? And so, you know, I know we think about that from a story standpoint. But I’m going to flip this here to you, Joey, because, you know, from FTE and all the different podcasts and everything here, you’re instrumental in meeting us into the creativity and the new initiatives of it. I want you to talk for a moment. I mean, we’re announcing this new initiative, but there is a different podcast. There is a different way that we’re going to go about doing that. And maybe if you could speak to kind of some of the early episodes that you’ve been leading us on and working through and kind of what’s going into the style and the approach to it all.

Joey Honescko Yeah for sure. Really cool to get to tell these stories. And I think to your point, Justin, of the churches winning, we are seeing those wins happen. So even for a hyper skeptic person like me, it’s actually quite rewarding to hear the stories of the church doing these incredible things. And what both of you have mentioned, that some of these problems, all these problems are actually solvable, and we’re seeing people actually solve them. So, the first one, we called it episode zero, and it was kind of a precursor to the whole initiative. And it tells the story of Dana and Bill Wicker, men who are two individuals that are a lot like many faith driven entrepreneurs and investors. They, came into some some wealth that they weren’t expecting necessarily, like many do whenever there’s a liquidity event or, an inheritance in their case. And they really wrestled with the question, what does it mean to handle this? Well, to steward this well, as Christians, as believers, and they really started navigating into how they could use their income, by building and investing and giving, not just giving charitably, but giving charitably and also investing that capital and also using it. They do an angel network and all these different things, and none of that’s prescriptive or presumptuous. And we’ll talk about that later. But, that’s kind of episode zero. And then episode one really kind of focuses on, Mark green, who many people might be familiar with the green family, hobby lobby model Mart was the was the one who started Mardell when he was like 19 or something in Oklahoma. Really cool story. But as he went on, he also felt this need to do more. He had a successful business. It was doing well, but he was like, man, what do I want to be remembered for? What kind of impact do I want to have on the world? And he really got passionate about Bible translation, and that opened his world to all sorts of things that he began to build, to invest and give towards. So all of those are kind of the overview. We tell these stories in a very narrative form. It’s kind of like Guy raz, how I Built This meets, NPR’s Radiolab meets This American Life. So it’s sort of a three act structure. It’s real creative. There’s sound effects and music, and it’s a lot of fun to produce. So there’s that aspect of it, too. And then the third thing I’d say, and I want to get y’all’s thoughts on this as well, is a key part of what we try to do with those episodes is create a call to action. And Justin, you were talking about that idea of the accessibility and the idea that, for so many people, this is something that they don’t know how to start. And so I’ve heard you use the language of trying to create those avenues. That is simplicity on the other side of complexity, because there’s tons of stuff to navigate. And so one of the things we’re trying to do with the podcast and the initiative as a whole is give people these really clear next steps and next directions. And so, Justin, you want to talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Just that. Yeah. Yeah. Access.

Justin Forman You know, as we get into that, one of the things I would say is I really appreciate Joy the way that you bring like these cultural illustrations, I think entrepreneurs and investors understand. And I think the way that we’ve talked about topics like you could say, like Bible translation, you can talk about in a certain way that only captures the people that are already thinking about it or the way that we’ve talked about it for the last 20 years, and only captures the people that are left. What I love about the podcast and episodes you’ve shared with the team is, is that you’re presenting it in a way that entrepreneurs and investors can understand, like that first episode that that coming up or actually may have just released is this idea of Coca Cola and talking about the market share that it has and how like there is what is it, less than 10% of the world that doesn’t even I think that using your language recognize the gospel, the fizzy drink. And you know, when we see that market share as entrepreneurial investors, we know what that means. We know the downstream ramifications of that. We know what it means when your brand has had that kind of penetration. And then you compare and contrast that with the gospel itself and think, I mean, how is it that a fizzy drink is more known than the gospel that we carry? And so I love that element, but I’ll, I’ll dive into kind of what you framed up as. We want to make sure that those episodes leave people with a place of action. You know, we often talk about it here in Texas. There’s not many pep rallies without a football game. But I think to your point, what is the greatest barrier now? There’s many. But I think one of the barriers I know Henry’s passion about this is that where question when you get launched in the where question, it can be paralyzing when you’re trying to find the best places to build or to invest and to give in. You know, we were talking about this the other day. In relation to Google, what it was 25 years ago, about 25 plus years ago, that Google started. Somebody had a time capsule of a screenshot of Google and said, this is an index containing 25 million pages, and it was their first, screenshot of their, their search engine. And in parentheses, they had to even say soon to be much bigger because they were saying, like, there’s more information coming. But the point of that little subtlety was there’s more and there’s more and there’s more information. I think it was at dinner last night that, I don’t know, one of the kids was saying that there was like 2.5 million videos uploaded every day. And you just think about just how we’ve moved from a place of like scarcity on information to being so overwhelmed that it’s paralyzing. You know, I think that we saw this even recently when people are talking about the Giving Pledge and they talked about the way it motivated people to generosity, but people are getting stuck. They’ve convinced that they need to do something, but they don’t know where to give. They don’t know where to invest. They don’t know where to deploy this capital. And so, led by Andrew and our team and others across the movement, a collaboration of family offices, ministries. Working through it, we’re endeavoring to say, how can we highlight some of the best first steps? It’s not the only step, but how do we highlight some of those best first steps on each one of those? So when you go in there and you find out about, you know, solving a problem like trafficking, you’re going to see places where you can give some great ministries like International Justice Mission and work that you can give to, but you’re also going to find some of the best places where you might invest and hear about, you know, the Freedom Fund with Eagle Venture and ways that you can invest into businesses that are trying to root out trafficking all around us. And so I think you’re right. We have an overwhelming task ahead of us. There is an overwhelming amount of information out there. And yet I think there are tools coming of age and there’s collaborations happening where we can find the simplicity on the other side of complexity.

Henry Kaestner Amen. Absolutely. And I think that we can’t reinforce the concept of big enough. It’s a three part approach and strategy to solving the world’s greatest problems. And when God calls us, I don’t think he compartmentalize our vocations from our giving, from our investments. He just wants us to know him more fully and then be captivated by the injustice or in addressing poverty. That’s in the world. And it’s Galatians 210, let’s take care of the poor, the very thing we should be eager to do. But each of us plays a role in that, and for many of us, it’s to build something to solve that problem. There are thousands of phenomenal, faith driven entrepreneurs that are leaning into opportunities, solving problems, and that’s where much of our audience is going to resonate with the stories that we highlight there. Others, of course, are going to be thinking about giving. And we know that giving is a big place, and we know that it’s more blessed to give than receive. And we see over and over in Scripture about how giving is important. And yet we also know that there’s a lot of great research talking about where giving might do more harm, both to the recipient and to the giver. And there’s toxic charity and that aid. And so giving needs to be done thoughtfully. And we’re going to try to wade into that. I mean, these are very complex issues. We’re not going to be able to be the authoritative source on everything, but we’re going to try really hard to find those that have given their lives to investigating these problems that are as close as you can come to as an authority on the problems in the world. But before we go too much further in it, gosh, I don’t think on every podcast episode I try to present myself as a resonant theologian, but we also need to acknowledge the fact that I know what the biggest problem is in the world, and we could just stop the whole ministry right here. The biggest problem in the world is me. The biggest problem in the world is sin. And, gcam. What I’m doing here, I’ve got to give proper attribution. Is G.K. Chesterton in Orthodoxy. I am the biggest problem. Sin is the biggest problem. And then there’s a real spiritual battle. So we have to be conscious of all those things, but we’re gonna endeavor to do just that. We’re going to try to find this simplicity on the other side of complexity in such a way that will draw people closer into a relationship with God as they get down on their knees and say, Lord, show me the problems you want me to be involved in solving, and then allow me to participate in solving those problems. In spite of the fact that I’m an imperfect vessel. May I shine your glory through me as I get to work on some really cool projects with others together and the community of Christ.

Joey Honescko Yeah, it’s a good, G.K. Chesterton quote. I did want you. You mentioned the big concept there, Henry, and you kind of talked about it. The idea of build, invest in, give. Can you unpack just for a second that framework. And we talked about there are three legs of a stool. They’re not different things. They often overlap. So can you just give a little bit of a framework for what we mean when we talk about big or build invest in give and how they relate to one another?

Henry Kaestner Sure, absolutely. So weird. I think that we’re called to love God as we understand the value, the gift of life, giving us our our response to that is that then come in to worship God as the one leper out of the ten and and in a loud voice just proclaim his glory and then say, I want to bring all that I am and all that I have, since it’s all yours anyway. To the altar is my meaningful form of worship, and for a lot of people, what they have is entrepreneurial ability. They’re natural problem solvers. They get out there, they find a minimum viable product, they get product market fit, they lean into the problem to be solved. They they get and inspire and encourage others to join a team to solve the same problem. They work well with their customer and with partners and vendors and and that’s what their gifting is. And so many cases, with challenges, there needs to be a new entrepreneurial, just. Solution to what we’re looking at. And in some cases profits can come alongside it. And in other cases, it’s not the primary motivation being to to solve a problem or lean into or find an outcome that needs to be addressed. So that’s that’s the build and that’s much of our legacy. We started life off as faith driven entrepreneur. The largest of the different ministries were involved in now reaching almost 100,000ft or not friends around the world. So of course we have a passion towards continuing to serve and inspire and encourage that constituency, those people. And then when you look at invest, you know the origin behind the faith driven investor ministry that we have that’s been around now for about five years, also with content and community, is providing like minded capital alongside those entrepreneurs being able to pour our lives in in terms of being a great mentor or a coach. And of course, bringing in the type of capital allows those entrepreneurs to have, in many cases, the the fuel that they need to accomplish all that God has set out for them to do. And then giving will continue to be a big part of what we always do when we come to understand that it’s all God’s anyway. Giving is something that brings us closer to knowing God in a way that’s different than building and investing. As entrepreneurs and investors, when we build or we invest, it’s incredibly powerful. And because it’s done in the marketplace where 39 of the 40 miracles in acts happen. It does. It deserves top billing. And yet there’s something about giving, giving it up. Freely given, which means we can’t lay claim to it anymore. We’re not going to be the entrepreneur that’s going to be talked about in newspapers and heralded by our peers, and we’re not going to get the type of investment return that sees our pile continue to to rise. When we give, we’re giving it up in a way that allows us to be freed from the shackles that might otherwise hold us back in the spirit of mammon. And so, because our biggest and highest use is to know the God of the universe and his love for us the most, we want to get rid of the things that would otherwise entangle us. And finances are so oftentimes our case, and then get it in the hands of people that can address those real problems. And in many cases, that’s relief. And it’s coming in after disasters. And in other cases it’s it’s investing in giving to education. And we need to despite the fact there’s lots of research out there about how giving can be done poorly, giving can also be done really, really well. So we need to wade into that too.

Justin Forman Yeah, I think the way that like that’s such a deep way of looking at it, I, I mean I think oftentimes I think a cultural way I would equate it to is we spend so much time saying, who’s the greatest basketball player in all time? LeBron, Kobe, Michael, which one it is. If we wanted to step into being a moment of prescriptive, I would have my favorite. And I would agree with my friend Henry here who just voted. So now that that’s clear. While we might like Michael, it all changes when the conversation change. Changes from not who’s the best player, but what if they were playing on the same team? And I think that’s what this site is so much about. It’s like, what does it look like if the people that are called the build, the people that are called to come behind and invest, the key people that might come well ahead of time and seed that we’re behind with giving. What if all of that was on the team? What if we change that conversation? There’s no doubt you’d look at that and say that’s most dominant three on three team you’ve ever seen. If you put those three together. And I think that’s what we’re on the verge of or something like this is where the world waking up to saying each has its place. There’s an order, there’s a sequence to it. But also like, how do we actually do it? And I think that while we’re starting with content and, you know, we can talk about maybe some of the community things that we hope will come out of it. We want to be clear, to say that this is not going to just stop there. Whether it’s putting the light on, giving, collaborations, investing, collaboration, other things, funds that are happening, we want to make sure that people find ways to get into the game. And so, that might be coming alongside some of the giving collaborations that are out there that might be highlighting some of the funds that already exist, or it might mean inspiring people to go start a new fund or a new giving collaboration. But we are very convinced that we have to make it easy. We have to make it accessible for people to take that next step. And so while we’re not there today, and there’s still a long way to go to get to that, it’s going to place, it’s going to be a place where we’re going to experiment, we’re going to test some things. And as Henry said on some of the videos, more releases, it is early and we will make mistakes. No doubt we are going to make mistakes. That’s what entrepreneurs and investors do. You try, experiment might fail. You’re going to retool and you’re going to get back out there. But we need to make sure that we’re cracking ways, cracking the code on ways for people to get in the game and not just talk about it.

Joey Honescko Yeah. That’s great. Think, one one thing that you mentioned there, talking about playing on the same team in collaboration. You also mentioned that idea of community and at faith in an entrepreneur and faith driven investor. Both parties are very passionate about not just content, but content and community. And bringing those people together. So let’s stop just for a second about the role that community will play in solving the world’s greatest problems, not just in the initiative, but even in all of the episodes that we’ve, already produced for the podcast community was such a key part of the giving story, the investing story, the building stories. Like no matter who it was, they needed other people to help shape them, help them to think differently about it. So just Henry, maybe you start us off, just talk about the role that community plays when we are solving the world’s greatest problems. And then maybe, Justin, you can come in and talk about the role community will play in the actual initiative itself.

Henry Kaestner Anytime Jesus sent people off, he sent them off in twos. And we’ve got to do this in community. And, and and it’s much more fun. But and you know so I talked about Galatians 210 before, which is to take care of the poor, the very thing we should be eager to do. Ephesians 210 talks about the fact that we each have different things to bring to the equation. When we can be brought together in a community of others, and somebody has one perspective and somebody else has a different experience, and someone has got some, some drive and some organized organizational power, and somebody else has got the power of intercession. When you bring together a community of people focused on solving a problem that’s unbelievably dangerous, and it’s dangerous from the forces that would otherwise hold back. The solving of problems of, of injustice. And so that’s one of the things we’ve learned as part of our DNA and fate driven, not foreign, fate driven investor. In each case, we highlight, content, great storytelling. And then it’s really community come from the content Justin says is very, very well come for the content, stay for the community and people have. And we expect the same thing here.

Justin Forman Yeah. I think, what I would add on here is I know we’re coming to a close is I think that there’s an element when you think about community. That’s been one of the greatest challenges in the church for years is trying to find assimilation. And how do you get people together, oftentimes is broken down by your zip code or the age of your kids, and those are meaningful things. Don’t get me wrong, there’s tons of reasons why some of that works, but I think another one that’s undersold at times is when you find some people that share a passion for a similar problem, but then want to find a plan and get get going to find it. And, you know, there’s a great ministry out there and halftime and we’re partnering with them and this and in different other areas of the ministry to say, what does it look like for people to intentionally really get clear and discover the problem that you feel called to solved, but then to get free from some of the things that might be holding you back, but then to get going and take those steps of getting in the game with friends. You know, we were just at Christian Economic Forum and Chuck Bentley, one of the phrases he says is, you know, so often you can look throughout history and some of the great problems of the world were solved by friends coming together. So therefore go and make friends. And I think that that is really. The spirit of this idea of community is to find those people that share that passion for the similar problems, and to go and make friends and have fun doing it.

Henry Kaestner Indeed.

Joey Honescko Yeah. That’s great. Well, thank you both for kind of giving an overview of the initiative, talking about the heart behind it. It is like you guys are both said it’s an audacious goal, but it’s something that is possible because of the Holy Spirit. And so he can do incredible things through his willing church. And so, listeners, check out the website. That’s probably the best thing to do from here solving the world’s greatest problems. Dot org you can navigate there are, 30, 30 problems. Yeah, 30 problems, seven categories of these problems. You can navigate through each one individually and see stories that inspire you to do something, give you some great next steps on places to give or potentially invest. You can see tons of videos, listen to the podcast, and then start thinking about how you might want to get involved in that community as well. So Justin Henry, appreciate you both joining and giving a little bit of overview for this joy.

Henry Kaestner Grateful for you. Thank you for helping, making it happen and leading. And great to be with you guys.

Joey Honescko Thanks for listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our ministry exists to equip and resource entrepreneurs just like you. With content in community. We know entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey, but it doesn’t have to be. We’ve got groups that meet in churches, coffee shops, living rooms, and boardrooms around the world. Find one in your area or volunteer to lead one and bring this global movement to your own backyard. There’s no cost, no catch, just connection. Find out more at Faith Driven entrepreneur.org.

In this episode of the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast, Henry and Justin discuss a merger between Halftime and Faith Driven Movements alongside Halftime co-CEOs Jim Stollberg and Tom McGhee.

The four highlight the power of partnerships and the importance of getting clear on one’s unique calling. They also explore the roots of Halftime as a book and an organization where individuals reassess their lives and seek to live a life of significance.

The merger aims to serve more people and help them discover their purpose and make a greater impact in the world.

For more information on the merger visit https://faithdrivenmovements.org/halftime/

If you’d like to hear more about the Faith Driven Entrepreneur community groups, go to faithdrivenentrepreneur.org/groups.

Episode Transcript

Joey Honescko You’re listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur Podcast, a show dedicated to the movement of founders and leaders around the world who are using their businesses for the glory of God and the good of others. Let’s get into it.

Henry Kaestner Welcome back to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I’m here with Justin. Justin, we’ve got a summer edition. And it’s great to be back in the studio with you, the.

Justin Forman Virtual studio that is remotely located this week. Where?

Henry Kaestner We are at the Basin Harbor Club in Vermont for gens Vermont. One of the prettiest places on the planet. And, I would love coming to here. But a good amount of time on the road this summer. I know that you spend some good time with family, too. But we’ve also spent some good amount of time on mission. And, I’ll tell you that the the trip and the story I wanted to share with you all comes from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Where I gave a presentation. At the end, I had two entrepreneurs who came up to me. I had many entrepreneurs who came like very encouraging, but two of them right back to back. The first one was a chocolate entrepreneur. This entrepreneur makes their money and has done very well by selling chocolate. And the second one that came up right after that and you cannot make this up. Was a peanut butter entrepreneur. And I’m like, you guys, you guys. Do you hear what this guy does? You guys got to get together. And they both gave me these, like, blank stares. And in America, where some amount of our listeners are from, you’ll know that chocolate and peanut butter go together because of Reese’s Peanut Butter cups. And the marketing that’s been dripped to us over the last 50 years. But that marketing campaign never got any airtime at all in Malaysia, and they looked at me like I had five heads. Okay, so of course, back to you. Justin is who would be the chocolate talking butter who.

Justin Forman Removed chocolate to the peanut butter? Well, I’ll tell you this. I grew up in, I grew up in a Christian home that I’m so thankful to have grown up in. And yet, one of the things that I think that we didn’t spend enough time on growing up is, those chocolate and peanut butter moments or those sliding door moments of life and seeing the Holy Spirit in the way he works. And, you know, you talk about conversations and sliding door moments. One of those for me was about 20 years ago. And so a good friend, Brian Mosley, had picked up, a book called halftime. And we went through it together as we had both started, started off in building this thing called Right Now Ministries. It was passionate about connecting people, to ways to find, opportunities to make a difference. And so we read that book 20 years ago, when we were both 23, 24, 25, in that strike zone. And I’ll tell you what, we were far from that halftime moment, but that book struck a chord, and it struck a chord deep with us to say, man, what does it look to live a life fully alive? What does it look like to live for something significant, as Ecclesiastes would say, beyond the sun and something that will last? And that book really, really, really struck a chord. In the time that we had with Bob since being here in Dallas, being his backyard was just, just a gift to really, really think about. What does it look like to not wait? What does it look like to put your passions into action right now? And so I know that’s, been a guiding thought and a guiding principle for for all of us here on this call and for so many others that are listening to this. And, so, yeah, at the top of my list, I’d, I’d put that is the chocolate and peanut butter combination using your, your language there.

Henry Kaestner I think it’s really good. I think that when I think about the different things that faith driven does and that the Lord has allowed us to do, we have, through the grace of God, had groups of more than 130 countries, and we’ve, used the, the, the storytelling from our team to help people get really excited about getting involved and getting in the game. And on the flip side of the back end, we’ve been able to find some incredible accelerators and incubators and funds and and feature and entrepreneurs are doing incredible things in emerging markets and right behind, right in our backyard in America. And yet, one of the things we haven’t been able to do as well, though we have referred quite a few people to some incredible ministries that do this. But there’s none better than halftime like you talk about he. So it’s been really fun to talk with the team at halftime over the last several months about what does it look like to work more closely together? What does it look like to be able to have a partner that we can point to and entrepreneurs and feature of investors, too, that want to get more intentional about understanding about how God has uniquely equipped them so that in light of their giftings and their experiences and their talents, they might get in the game in a way that helps them to be fully alive. But there’s no generalities. While we can all understand and agree that the call to create an identity crisis, there is a specific calling. God wants to have a personal relationship with each of us. Halftime to such a great job of helping people to understand their unique calling, coming up with a roadmap. And so we’ve got some special guests on the podcast today doing.

Justin Forman We do? We do indeed. It is, been a lot of fun over the last couple of years to get to know Tom and Jim and just to hear their story and their heart, whether it’s at Christian Economic Forum and different events or just in their backyard here in Dallas. So, Tom, Jim, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 4 Appreciate it. Absolutely.

Justin Forman Well, to start us off here, Tom, I would love for you. I don’t know who the resident historian is yet of us here, but I feel like that you’ve got just such a great, unique perspective on some of the story of half time. So we know that so many people that we serve with faith driven, are familiar with it. Their lives have been changed by it and the lives have been impacted by it. But for those that might, be discovering peanut butter cups for the first time in Malaysia or in Nigeria that haven’t heard of half time. Can you tell us a little bit about the story and and give everybody some context?

Tom McGhee Sure. So there was an entrepreneur by the name of Bob Buford. They ran a cable television company, and, he sold it and made a lot of money. And, when he did, though, he, he really wanted to pour it others. And he wrote the book halftime, which had the tagline from Success to Significance, because that was his story. And in a vision, halftone really is somebody who is 40 years old at that time. Bob said, this was 25 years ago. And, and Bob said, you know, if you’re if you’re to live to be 80, 40 is sort of half time, you ought to take a pause and say, if I keep doing what I’m doing and look at, I end up where I want to be, you know, just like we would take a half time in a, in a ballgame of some kind to reassess. And that the other side of that, he believed, is that, you know, you. You’re willing. Your life is its totality. Really. At the end of it, you’re able to say, what have I done? How have I accomplished? Who have I become? All those things, you know, the latter part of yours may be much better even than the former. And now you can build on success and build on your network and all those kind of things. So we wrote this book and it took off 25 years ago. You had Rick Warren talking about purpose, and you had Bob Buford talking about calling. And that was the telling. The main ideas out there in the marketplace and in the society about what is what am I created to do and what does God have for me, and how do I use who I am and my gifts? And, my, you know, all those things and the idea of a calling that says, well, there’s a purpose for me, you know, that I was created for such a time as this that literally is a child of God. I’ve been created uniquely to do something at this moment in the history of the world, to do something literally nobody else in the world could do, because that’s why God created me. And whether it’s something very specific or even something little, whether it’s large, whether you know what that impact is or not, it’s worth thinking about and being intentional about. And that’s what Bob wrote at half time. And so he she wrote the book. So people started coming together to see him. He would be able to speak to him and kind of speak in their lives. And I had the privilege. I had been a partner with Ernst and Young. This is about 2001, and I left Ernst and Young to become an entrepreneur, to start my own company. And I was doing that, and I was working primarily as a consultant, my own consulting company, doing strategy with fortune 100 companies. But I also wanted to do it for the Kingdom. And somebody said, hey, I live here in Dallas. Somebody said, hey, have you ever heard of this guy Bob Buford? He work for churches, which he did also besides time. And I got to meet Bob. I actually had the privilege of designing for him the very first half time program some 25 years ago when they said, you know, we can leverage everybody’s time and effort better if we can maybe get six or 8 or 10 people in a room instead of just one on one meetings. And so with that, the ministry as it is, was bought was never intended to be sort of a formal ministry. It was just an outreach of this book. And the, the, the nerve it hit in an awful lot of business people that wanted to know, you know, what was beyond success and what else is there in life. And am I doing especially as a Christian, if you realize the the what you’ve been able to do with all your gifts and talents, there’s a lot of hard work you put in, but it’s all because of the talents and things you’ve been given by God the opportunities, the timing, all of those things. And, and most successful entrepreneurs or businessmen would say, you know, I recognize that there’s a force at play much greater than me, much greater than what I’ve done. And because God has allowed me whatever level of success I have, I want to make sure I’m a good steward of that, that I’m giving back on it, that I’m using it for the right purposes, and I’m doing more than just, you know, serving myself. And so it hit a big nerve. It took off. The book sold, you know, gazillion copies around the world. We have had the opportunity to be formalized as a ministry. Few years later or early 2000, we served probably somewhere between 3 to 5000 people around the world, men and women, to help them understand who they are, how God has created them, and then to begin to live that out in their life wherever they are. And so it’s just been a pleasure, Jim and I, and I’ll, I’ll turn it over to him for any kind of, color commentary on this, but, I had been around half time. I helped start it. I continue to work in my own company for a while. In about three and a half years ago, they reached out to me to help. Asked me to help halftime with a global strategy. I was glad to come back in the family to start work with them. Jim was on the board at that time and we started working together. And, you know, one thing, one thing you kind of learn Jim’s been a consultant to is a consult. You should never recommend a strategy. You don’t want to run yourself. Right. And so we recommended this strategy go along to the board came to us, said, you know, maybe it’s time you guys should step in as co-CEO and try to help, create this vision for after we’ve been working over the last few years.

Justin Forman That’s awesome. Now. And Jim, you you were able to interact. Was it through the book or was it through the course which was the which came first for you?

Jim Stollberg The book. You know, I wasn’t quite as young as you when I read the book the first time, but it’s quite often that that is the first introduction to half time. I can’t tell you how many people we’ve met over the years and say, oh, somebody gave me the book. I read the story, and it changed my life. Some of them we never see come through half time. They just read the book and it had such an impact on them. For me, I had a mentor. I was in management consulting, as was Tom. Different firm. Maybe a better one. I would say lesser firm.

Tom McGhee Yeah. That’s right.

Jim Stollberg But but was in management consulting and a mentor gave it to me. I think it was shortly after it was published and I was probably 30 at the time. I don’t remember exactly my age, but it it had such a profound impact and, unfortunately, just and I wasn’t as wise as you and said, I’m not going to wait. I read the subtitle and it said From Success to Significance. And I said, well, I don’t I don’t think I’ve checked that first box yet. So I’m going to continue to pursue success. And I and I did that for the next 20 years. But here’s, here’s the God moment in that, right? I said how I love how God plants seeds. He used that. 20 years later, when I was 52, I left the marketplace and I, I pulled the book back off the shelf. I read it again, and it was just as profound as it was the first time, maybe even more so. And I called my mentor because he had been a long time friend of mine, and I said, can we do lunch? And, we had a we had a great lunch. And he basically said, Jim, you’re in a half time. You need to you need to go through half time. And so I did that. In 2019, I went through what we call our fellows program. So just over five years ago, and it was nothing short of transformational for me to reframe the context of how I think in my life. Yeah. You know, so grateful.

Justin Forman Yeah. I love one of the things that you guys are both hitting on here that I think is. It’s been a journey that Henry and I have been going on, just to realize and appreciate the power of space and the power of a chance to really kind of reflect. I think oftentimes as entrepreneurs and investors were quick to do or quick to build, were quick to take action, we default towards action. And when we think about discipleship, we think, oh, well, it should be just a checklist. 1234567. Go down the list. And if we do that, it can just be facts. And it could be a checklist. And it can maybe be something we bolt on to our heart. But we really need to give it space to capture our heart. Can you talk about that, Tom, when you talk about this coaching process, when you talk about the program, of what it is like, how important is it to have that place and space to to really breathe and let something kind of marinate at its own pace?

Tom McGhee You know, it’s critical. And I think we need after I would try to bring sort of three things to bear. Right. There’s a process models, tools, those kind of things. There’s coaching. An individual coach is going to take you through that kind of help guide you. But then we do everything is a cohort model. You have others around you that are all that journey with you that can help you think your confusion out loud, as Peter Drucker used to say. And I think, you know, one of the greatest things we can do, all of our programs, spend, you know, several months at least, just because it’s an iterative process. We think God reveals something to you, and you’ve got to be willing to lean into it to understand where it’s going. I mean, rarely, you know, I remember when I started my own company, like, like every other, guy who does a man or woman who does it. You know, I had a business plan. And as everybody knows, as soon as you actually step out and start most of a business plan, it was right in the trash. Right? But it was a great foundation to begin strong. You needed a place to start. And our tools and the models that are things we do, they give a person a place to start, but then you need a coach and, a cohort around you to help you work through those regulatory things that come up as you go. So so we talk a lot at halftime about the head journey and the hard journey. And this is always a challenge, right? We can get it in our head if we don’t get it. If we don’t use our head we don’t do things. We just sit around and, you know, maybe, maybe I’ll do this someday. Maybe I’ll get into that. We talked about getting clear, getting free and getting going. And there’s a there’s a specific order to that. If you try to say, I’m going to get free first, you almost never do it. You know, it’s always, I’ll get free. Will I get this much money? Or when the kids are out of the home or whatever it is, if you get going first, you can kind of trade just kind of sort of trade one treadmill for another, right? I was working, you know, working my tail off in business, and I’m going to work my tail off for Jesus. You know, there’s no there’s no heart to it. There’s no time to really think about what you’re doing because you’re so busy doing it. And so we really try to work with guys, say in your head, what are those actions that you need to take? What are those things you can do one of those, shifts you can make in your schedule and your abilities and where your platform is and all those things. But right along, integrated with that is where are you on your heart journey? How are you hearing from the Lord? How are you having a rhythm in your life that allows for enough, space to know that what you’re doing is not just the right thing, but the best thing at the right time. You know, I think so. So we try to blend those things together, you know, as we go along the journey with guys.

Justin Forman Hey. You know, one of the things I love, about that is it’s a combination. It’s not just a coach. It’s not just a peer. It’s really this beautiful mash up of all of it kind of coming together. Was that something that instantly that you guys discovered in the process, or was it somewhere along the journey that you realized that there needed to be that kind of combination of peer learning, coach learning, and kind of everything together? When how has that evolved?

Tom McGhee My background had been in collaborative work. That’s that’s what I did, bringing groups together, and helping them have these conversations that would let new ideas emerge from in companies or whatever they were. So when I was asked to design the forum, I knew it needed to be co-work based. It needed to be in a group. And that was a better way to to work through things. It went on a few years like that before we added the coaching aspect to it. They really said, you know, there’s this a group of peers is great, and it provides a perspective that’s invaluable. But it’s also often necessary to have somebody who can kind of see down the path a little bit of where you’re going and can help point you in the right direction, you know, for what you’re doing. We think then together is a pretty good programs, and it kind of evolved that way.

Justin Forman That’s great. Hey, one other thought here before I pass it back over to Henry. But one of the things that, has been our favorite phrase has been just Bob’s phrase that we’ve seen and will be sharing with others is the fruit of our work grows on other people’s trees. And hearing that in your 20s you see one inside of the tree, but in your 30s and your 40s. And as you get older, you see some of the different angles of that tree, of just how God sometimes brings you together in partnership for seasons or for long periods of time. And sometimes you don’t even know all of the fruit. That happens from the faithful work of a team and, and a mission or a ministry that’s there. And I’m struck by that. And, Jim, and I’d love for you to speak to just kind of how that guided half times model with some of these international partners. And just what was Bob’s approach to that? And it was so great for Henry and I to be on that call with many of them last week, but can you just speak to how that has guided half times model in partnership around the world?

Jim Stollberg Yeah. So true. And still love that phrase. It’s so it’s so meaningful even today. Right. Tom and I have talked over the years. I think Bob actually planted orchards and you know, he as, as Tom mentioned up front when he, he wrote the book, he was really just telling his story, and it created this movement of people came to him. And I don’t believe he had any intention of creating, you know, a business or a ministry or a franchise, right, to roll this out. And when people came to him, whether here or from around the world, he was so giving with it. Right? He was looking to just have that impact. And so many of the half time hubs, as we would refer to them around the world today, Bob just leaned into and he said, this is what I know. This is what I have. These are the tools, this is the content that we’ve been developing. Take it and go. And how can I be of help with you? To to bring that to life. And so there were no strings attached and, and because of that, it really created that movement mentality. And it still exists today. That, that people can step into half time. And therefore it’s also taken on an expression in the context of every country that it’s in right now, trying to over corporatized it, if you will, or hold it too close to, to the center, but to really let it grow in the context of where it makes the most sense in that environment.

Justin Forman Yeah, it’s been a gift. I remember, gosh, being on video shoots when we’d be sitting there and we’re asking people questions and you spend a whole day with somebody and you get a chance to hear their story and hear everything. And it was always a fun surprise or a couple of times I remember distinctly in Singapore when we were interviewing people and they were saying a book that really shaped me, and you almost kind of wanted to stop them and, you know, take a guess at what it was. And sure enough, you heard the story of how Bob’s book had just really impacted, just so many people in so many places that, you know, Bob never got a chance to see or would never have had a chance to see even if he was alive at the time. I love that that orchard language to it.

Jim Stollberg And it was never about him. Right? It was never about him. And Tom and I tried to keep the same posture of this is it’s not about halftime, right? It’s really about the stories of the people who go through the halftime experience and come out that experience living in a completely different way, right, making an impact in the world. And but that is that’s the privilege that we get to see from R.C. it’s a blessing.

Tom McGhee One of the legit really attracted us to a faith driven movement is the movement word. You know, I really think you guys are about the same thing. It’s not about, you know, building a franchise, building an empire. It’s about what I would call the power of Christianity. Turn it into active power wherever they are. You know, getting people in the game to realize that how they are uniquely made and and what they are called to do and just, you know, living that abundant life that we’ve been promised. And I and I think that that promise that Jesus made that that you’d have life and have it more abundantly. To me, that comes when you are doing what you were created to do, whether it’s big or a little bit. You wake up every morning. You know, this is the best day of my life because of today, because I get to do what I was made to do. And I just the more we can get people in that game, just the, the, the the better. It’s not just the better it’s going to be. It’s just an honor to try to put people in that direction.

Henry Kaestner I love the emphasis on getting people in the game. I think that’s so important in a world in which we might read a book or listen to a podcast or listen to a sermon. We can get inspired. But for us to actually then take action on that is something that’s, it’s it’s easier said than done. And one of the things that you’ve hit on from the very beginning in this cohort model is the same thing, of course, that blends us together in our shared DNA, and that’s to do it in a partnership in a group of people as they’re able to talk through. Okay, let’s let’s go through this together. So what does it look like for all of us to get clear on what the opportunity is and what God is calling us to, and how he uniquely loves us? And the thing that I really think bonds our DNA together as we merge. Is this concept that there’s a God of the universe, and how much he loves us more fully than we might otherwise ever understand. And getting clear first and foremost on that, and then understanding what he is calling us all to in this battle that we’re all in, we are in a battle. It’s a battle not necessarily against flesh and blood, but against. The enemy that wants to distract us from the life that’s fully life. And then you’re getting free. Getting free of the things that might otherwise encumber us. To get in the game. And to do that in a group of people, a squadron. And I don’t want to overly militarize it. But there’s some great analogies. Of course, it comes from basic training and having a group of folks that have your back and in this case, praying for you, challenging you, encouraging you each other, being vulnerable, being transparent. And it’s with that that we have always, as our different organizations sought to serve each other. But for us to do that now full time together. Is really unique. So some number of people are listening to this. And like I think I’m a little confused here, right? Maybe I heard the chocolate peanut butter thing. Oh really? What are they doing here? So it’s a merger. We’re coming together. Our teams, our DNA is being combined. The DNA of halftime is is is being a part of everything we do. It feed driven, feed driven, itinerary, feed driven, investor feed driven. Students is coming out solving world’s greatest problems. This concept of being able to understand what guys uniquely equipped you to do. The halftime DNA is going to be part of every one of the different initiatives we have. And yet halftime is incredibly powerful as a stand alone program. So as people are part of the faith driven movement and just the movement of God, to be able to come in, to be able to continue to have that highly personalized, this really high touch. Coaching and collaborative platform. That’s going to be continued program. Maybe you can speak to that. Either one of you. Just what does summary what might somebody expect from this merger? Is it all together? How is it happened? Halftime shutting down. Can I continue to refer my friends in. What was it mean for you guys?

Jim Stollberg Yeah, it, you know, we’ve talked about this as we, as we just embarked on it, we talked about halftime. And you just spoke to Henry being remaining distinct but also being integrated. And I love how we’re framing that up because we feel that halftime, you know, for people who are searching for who are experiencing what we would call that smoldering discontent, that feeling that there’s something more but not sure what that is, I truly believe that is the Holy Spirit speaking to you, that there’s something more for you in life. And, we want to serve them. When people get to that point in their life, wherever they’re at, we want to serve them distinctly, but also just recognizing the power of reaching more. Tom and I, as we took on the co-CEO roles, really felt called to serve more and serve longer. And we really felt that partnerships was the way to do it, that we really needed to be much more kingdom minded and much more abundance minded. As we went forth on this. There’s so much more we could do together. And when we as we watched the nature of movement grow and seeing you guys a few times a year, we thought.

Tom McGhee What you do.

Jim Stollberg Is so much better than what the abilities that we have it and the go to market for reach to to reach those who are not in the game and maybe not even thinking about being in the game. That’s been a sort of a, but a challenge for us. Candidly, we’ve had some people come through halftime said, boy, you’re the best kept secret in the in the ministry space. Well, that’s not necessarily the place we want to be. So if we’re going to reach more, we think that being broader and reaching that audience for the purpose of getting them to the table so that we can help them go through the transformative program that we know we can deliver to.

Justin Forman Amen, Amen. Such a great perspective. Yeah, I think that’s just worth double clicking on, is that we think that there’s ample opportunity for investors, for entrepreneurs, and even the faith driven students. We’re excited about that. New initiatives and making sure that people have a frame to walk through life, to value the importance of people on a board or in their community to walk through it with. And so we’re excited about all of those different verticals and those different opportunities to to integrate this process. But as you guys mentioned, to making sure that there is a clear, distinct process for others that might not be in those buckets, but still want to experience the power of that half time experience and go through it together. And so it’s a fun journey to, embark on both of those things together. You know, I think that, one of the things that I would love to just double click on a little bit is just the latent word that you guys views. I know that that’s something that when, you know, Karen Hung and Dale Doss and other great friends and board members and part of Half Time and Faith Driven ministries really just talked about the potential and the opportunity. I think when we say that, we have an idea, but as you guys have walked through halftime and you sense this moment, you sense this merger and you sense this opportunity, what are you guys seeing? Just the amount of latency potential that is out there in the pews of the church.

Tom McGhee Well, you know, it’s a great question. It’s one of the things that really, really touches my heart. Just reading. My wife and I do a ton of our, Bible reading kind of time together this morning. One of the words has stuck out, both in the Old and New Testament is a continued phrase that says, you know, something would happen and they would be called those whose hearts were stirred. You know, and it just makes you realize, you know what? They’re an awful lot of people, that their hearts are stirred. They’re going through the motions, you know, they they they believe in Jesus, and they go to church and they’re trying to do the right things, and maybe they volunteer a little bit, but but it’s just I’m trying to mechanical word. Certainly not the abundant, joy filled, radical, risk taking life that that Christ has, you know, invites us into. And I see that and I’m like, it just shouldn’t be that way. I mean, Henry talked about the darkness. And, you know, I think the way you push the darkness back is not by fighting the darkness. It’s by becoming who you were created to be. Do what you want. One of my favorite quotes from a civil rights leader named Henry Thurman, Henry Thurman, who said, don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive. Because what the world needs is more people who are fully alive. And I think that’s what the church teaches us. What the body of Christ needs, you know, it is you discover what God’s uniquely made you to do in this world of identity and how important that is. You get Ahold of your identity is is Jim was saying, it becomes something you can’t not too right. You just you’ve got to be after it. And entrepreneurs know that feeling from the company they started or the things that came out of a passion or a love or an opportunity they wanted to seize. And we just want to carry that same passion and every aspect of a person’s life. You know, we’re they’re living a life that is just, you know, better than they ever thought to be able to really just live it fully. And I think that I just see a lot of people in churches, I see them on Sundays, I see them around that are just not living that full life.

Henry Kaestner When you when you talk about that illustration, it makes me think back to Ezekiel, right. The valley of dry bones. Another thing that that. We’ve used in these, in these talks over the last several months, just going through the Valley of Dry Bones, where they’re the sleeper cells. And I myself have been in that valley and myself, a lot of me is still in that valley, but it’s when it’s it’s coming around men and women, like when we were with Karen last week and Samantha and and the two of you and Rhonda just, you know, it’s like, oh my goodness, I’m being woken up by my slumber into something that’s fully life. And that’s one of the things that we’ve tried to do now for a long time at Phaedra, for months, which is to go through and say there is something much, much better. But then this process that you’ve had for so long at half time is like, okay, so just don’t get feel like, okay, I’ve got to join any battle. What’s the battle? And makes you come alive? I love working with entrepreneurs in emerging markets. Makes me come alive. The person next to me may come alive by investing in multi-family real estate that houses refugees in Louisville, Kentucky. And yes, somebody else might come to live by doing Bible translation. Question is how might the body of Christ from Ezekiel, the valley dry bones, be awoken to their individual calling, where God might use them in a way that brings them closer to knowing him? And that’s what we hope to do together.

Jim Stollberg Yeah, Henry couldn’t agree with you more. I mean, that’s really the clear part of get clear, get free, get go. And God is uniquely created us. He’s giving us. He’s given us skills, passions, experiences that he can use. You know, a very good friend of mine who’s also a half time, a guy that I went to college with, you know, he went through it and half time and ultimately, you know, he, he’s a hunter fisherman from upper Wisconsin. Right? Great guy. Loves to hunt, loves to fish. When he went through his passion exploration, he picked this picture off the wall of a person hunting. And you can ask yourself, okay, how is God going to use something like that to bring the kingdom about? But he had faith and he explored that and what he has launched his wheelchair whitetails he had an experience earlier in his life where a good friend of his, couldn’t experience the same joy he had by going into the woods and hunting or fishing. And he created this ministry called Wheelchair Whitetails to bring that experience to people who are wheelchair bound, who are disabled. And guess what he does? You know, it gives him that experience. But when he serves the meal at night, he prays. And he gets he gets people together in a cohort, if you will, and brings them closer to God. And some of them will accept that. And so God can use your unique passion. God can use your unique experience of a life to really get at that core, to get clear on who you are and what he’s made you to do.

Henry Kaestner Yeah. And, Dean, well, as you have listened to some of the feature Not Far podcast in the past, you’ll know how we end each episode as believing that God’s Word is alive. He uses it to speak to us every day. I love Tom, the fact that you and your bride were doing that just this morning. Kimberly and I were going to the Bible one year together. And we want to ask you, Tommy, you hit on a little bit, but expand on it, both of you. How do you feel that God is speaking to you through His word? Maybe something came through today. Maybe it’s this week, but something that might be able to be an inspiration encouragement to all of us listening.

Tom McGhee One of the things, we had a son, who passed away about 15 years ago, but prior to that, he, he was in a motorcycle accident. And prior to that, he’d struggle with drinking and drugs for about ten years. And my wife started it really drove her to the word is a place for just, solace and hope. And, maybe in a slow learner. I tried to gut through it for a while, but then finally realized I was bored. Or she was and joined her and that it and we we have probably for the last ten years, 15 years we’ve been reading through the Bible every year together and we’ll read separately, and then we’ll come together and say, what a dad say to you in that. And, you know, half the time it’s like, did you read the same chapter I did because I didn’t I didn’t even see that phrase. Right. Because God’s speaking to each other. So and I think, you know, I sort of touched on the thing that stuck out to me. There are two things that have stuck out in the recent readings last couple of weeks. One is this idea of, you know, whose hearts were stirred. And it was the idea, it just dawned on me that that’s not everybody, that unfortunately, a lot of people whose hearts aren’t stirred, they’re okay just going along and what they’re doing and hoping, you know, maybe things will work out. And, so, so that idea of a stirring, I think there’s a stirring happening. I think there’s a quickening happening if the if the age is getting darker, the remnant is also being stirred to be the light that we’re supposed to be. And I, I just want to help people step into that. The other one is it comes out of Psalms several times. It talks about, Lord, make my path wide, or give me firm feet on my path, or make my path straight. And I just, you know, as we have entered into these conversations about merging and trying to do more, it feels like he has made our path wide. Neither of us, I don’t think any of us have stumbled on anything so far. We haven’t found, oh, I didn’t know that. Or gotcha or wow. I just don’t think that’s going to fit at all. It feels like, you know, just really, God is saying, this is a path I want you to walk down, both individually for opportunities for myself. Sure, Jim, within this greater move, but also for the organizations to move forward. So I think those are a couple of these are really spoken to me either.

Jim Stollberg You know, for me, I think I’ve shared with you my, my personal mission statement is to multiply multipliers. And, so that’s part of the reason why I’m at halftime and why I just really look forward to being part of the faith driven movement. What a better place to be than to multiply the multipliers. But we also have when we go through halftime, we also ask our our clients to develop a being statement. And my being statement is to be salt and light. God doesn’t just call me to do. And that’s one of the things I’ve learned through my journey is, I kind of came into halftime exploring what God wanted me to do, what halftime taught me, who’s who God is calling me to become. And to be salt and light in the world is really where I feel I’m being called. As Matthew 513 to 16 could be salt and light. And for me, it’s very personal. As as I’m out of my in my faith journey, it’s easier for me to be salt in this kind of environment, to be encouraging to be, you know, to be that, that way to preserve and that way to protect the faith in a, in a room full of faithful followers. But to be light in the darkness is a bold challenge for me. I have to be to be that light in the world today, especially today, is a challenge. And it doesn’t come easy. But that’s. That’s why I want to, surround myself with the faithful followers so we can be light together.

Justin Forman Indeed, indeed. Beautiful way to say it. We are so excited about the future. We’re so excited about this. I loved, details, comments and stuff that might be in the show notes. Here’s just thinking about Bob and how he might be smiling down on this kind of conversation, and knowing that that fruit has rippled around the world in so many different places, has shaped all of our lives in great ways, and so much that it brings us together to say, what does it look like to surround ourselves with people with that shared passion that you’re talking about? Jim? So, yeah, if you can’t tell we’re her and you, we can’t tell. Maybe because you don’t have video access. We are super excited about what this means for the movement, for so many people around the world that we might be able to better serve together. And so you might be able to see some of the video announcements in the show notes. If not, you can go to Faith Tours and movements.org backslash halftime and see a video that shares a little bit more about the story. How we think that God’s been winking at us throughout this whole process and bringing us together some frequently asked questions about what this continues to mean, and some of the dreams of what we think it could mean in the future. So grateful to be with you guys. Let me close this out just in a word of prayer, just praying for this next season and this chapter ahead of us. God, we are so grateful for this time in the season. You, have sliding door moments in life. To think so many moments that have led to this moment and the ways that you work. We look at it and it’s just another testament to your Holy Spirit, guiding that wide road and that path together and that you’ve brought us to such a time and such a place, and you’ve prepared us for this moment that, as Tom and Jim mentioned, as it gets darker, that we might shine brighter, and we might do that by standing together. So, God, we pray for the months ahead. We pray for the conversations ahead as we think and plan and figure out ways to better serve your church and your people around the world. And it’s in your precious name that we pray. Amen.

Joey Honescko Thanks for listening to the Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. Our ministry exists to equip and resource entrepreneurs just like you. With content in community. We know entrepreneurship can be a lonely journey, but it doesn’t have to be. We’ve got groups that meet in churches, coffee shops, living rooms, and boardrooms around the world. Find one in your area or volunteer to lead one and bring this global movement to your own backyard. There’s no cost, no catch, just connection. Find out more at Faith Driven entrepreneur.org.