Episode Transcript
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Henry: [00:02:29] Diane, welcome to the show. We’re very happy to have you on. [00:02:32][2.7]
Diane: [00:02:32] Thank you. It’s awesome to be on. [00:02:34][1.8]
Henry: [00:02:35] Yeah. It’s a special thing for us. We’re going to be talking about something that we probably should talk about a lot more. We’ve had some people like Liz Bohannan, who’ve been a part of your ministry and a good friend of yours and ours on the show, of course. But looking into this subject of female women led entrepreneurship is super important. It’s not talked about enough. And you’re obviously subject matter expert. And so we’re looking for to heavy on the podcasts, of course. But before you get too much further, who are you and where do you come from? [00:03:02][26.7]
Diane: [00:03:03] Well, I always say I’m a farm girl from Oregon, and I was just blessed to be raised by believing parents who gave me a lot of confidence and responsibility at a young age. And I had a chance to work on our family business with my dad and go on to undergraduate school in Oregon and then ended up at Harvard Business School, which is sort of what opened my world up to the work I was able to do in the commercial real estate industry. And I married and I have four children and I have a grandbaby now. So life is very full and fantastic. [00:03:42][39.7]
Henry: [00:03:44] Good. So you’re on the show for a couple different reasons. But the main one, I think is about your relationship and your work that you’ve done with 4word. Tell us about 4word and tell us about what drove you to starting it and your leadership there. [00:03:58][14.3]
Diane: [00:03:59] Yeah, well, great question. You know, it was really three key things that drove me to start 4word. So the first was I was blessed to have been on the global executive teams of two Fortune 500 companies and one Fortune 1000. And in all three cases, I was the only woman on the global executive team. And there were 10, there were 14 and there were six. So, you know, there were a lot of opportunities for women to be in the room. And I just felt like, you know, there was something wrong with that picture. Back in, you know, as I led a global business first CBRE, it was a 600 million dollar business. I had twenty five hundred employees when I had the opportunity to bring a new account team onto my largest global account. I noticed that no women were applying and that concerned me because my second largest account was led by a woman named Lisa who was doing a fantastic job. So I went to Lisa and said, Lisa, why are you not applying for this opportunity? And she seriously looked at me and said, Diane, do you really think I can do that job? And I cite confidence there is an issue with confidence. And then the third is I. Am I the only one that feels this way? So I went the two thousand ten census data and there was three huge swings that happened in my lifetime. So one is the percent of women with children under 18 that were in the workforce went from 47 percent to 72 percent. So 72 percent of women with children under 18 are in the workplace today. The second is 40 percent of families. The woman is the primary breadwinner and that went from eleven to 40 percent in my lifetime. And the last, which a lot of you know, this just off the tip of your finger is that college degrees in 1975, 6 percent went to women in today over 6. Percent And so with those statistics I cite. You know what? We’re not going to turn back. I mean, women are in the workplace. And I saw this issue of confidence and I knew that someone needed to help women and men see that they needed to have women in that executive room with them. And so I started looking, who? Can I help bring this together? Which was based on faith as the foundation. Relationships as a priority and work as a place where you can use your God given gifts to serve others. And when I looked, there were twelve hundred marketplace ministries led by men for men and women. And there were, alas, you guys. The question how many organizations were led by women for women in 2009? Beyond one city that were Marketplace Ministries five. [00:07:27][208.1]
Henry: [00:07:29] I’m going to say one. [00:07:31][1.5]
Diane: [00:07:32] It’s actually zero. But basically, I took all of this and went to see Bob Buford, which I’m sure all of you have heard of Bob Buford, who has now passed away. But he was really my mentor in the not for profit space. And I shared this story with Bob. And Bob basically looked at me and said, hey, Diane, I know you can build organizations and you’ve got to do this, but you’ve got to write a book. And that’s when I said to Bob, that will be a total miracle because I hate to write. And he said, I’ll help you with that. Which he did. [00:08:26][53.7]
Diane: [00:08:26] And then he introduced me to the editor of the division of Harper Collins that published work Left Prey and to a ghostwriter. And so it’s sort of off to the races in 2009. And we’ve launched in 2011. And our vision is to build a global community of Christian women in the workplace. Why? So that we can help them reach their God-given potential with confidence. And we do it three ways. We do it with our digital community, local groups, and our mentor program. And so we’ve launched in 2011 with one of everything I just described. And today we have 160000 women that come to our digital community as a unique visitor in 2019. We have local groups in 26 cities with three affiliates. And then we’ve had 492 pairs of mentees and mentors go through our mentor program. So it’s just been amazing to see how God bless this ministry. And, you know, obviously it was a startup. And we’re talking about faith driven entrepreneurs that are women. So I’m one of those. And we have a lot of women involved with 4word that are entrepreneurs. [00:09:50][84.1]
William: [00:09:52] That’s great. I mean, one of the things I’m interested in is the mentorship aspect. I feel like I don’t know if it’s the rise of the Internet and social media or, you know, whatever it is. But I feel like when I talk to older people, my father and others, that everyone had mentors, you know, everyone had someone that really invested them. And I feel like that’s that’s less and less prevalent today. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on that and specifically why mentorship, you feel like is important to Christian women in and throughout the workplace. [00:10:19][27.1]
Diane: [00:10:20] Yeah, well, great question. So a study was done by Harvard Business Review in the Center for Work-Life Balance. So these were three separate studies that were done, but they both came to the same conclusion. If you hold everything else, constant education, economic background, et cetera, et cetera. What were the drivers of professional success? And the two key drivers were men and women were your network. And if you had Mansour’s and or sponsors in your life. So, first of all, the research just proves how important it is because it is a huge determinant of professional success. The thing you say. OK. So what about in the faith based world? Well, the Bible has so many examples, right? You’ve got Paul, who’s a mentor to Timothy, and he’s raising him to become a. Peter, you’ve got Elizabeth who mentioned Mary, who, you know, was first thing. You know, our savior and then even Jesus, the man that affected the largest number of people in the world of anyone. And he focused on twelve that he mentors. So, you know, I think it’s so obvious how important mentoring is. But there’s also research that points to how critical it is to help me through the different seafood supply. [00:11:57][96.7]
William: [00:11:58] And then one follow up question. If you have a little bit more of what is mentorship mean to you? You know, that’s a word I feel like gets thrown around a good bit as well. And, you know, it means different things to different people. And that’s not necessarily wrong. But within 4word, within what you’re trying to build, what does that look like or feel like from your perspective? [00:12:17][19.0]
Diane: [00:12:18] Yeah. Good question. You know, when we train our mentors, we basically tell them their job is actually very simple. You know, they need to do three, two things. Number one, they need to be great listeners so that they are just hearing what a mentee is dealing with or the questions they have and being very focused so that they can really let the Holy Spirit speak to them as they’re working with the mentee. Second, we asked them to share options. You know, a lot of times the mentors have been through watch of different scene signs of life. And so there may be options that they’re able to share. That’s the mentee hasn’t thought about. And then last of all, we tell them that they’re there to help a mentee with blind spots. So they just may not see that. They might say something as a straight and a match to a job. But, you know, the mentor has the opportunity to ask him questions and really help them with their blind spots. So, you know, we really see those as the three key things we want our mentors to do. And what we find is because our mentor program is faith based and we have a structure around it. So there are goals around your spiritual, your relational and your professional that we find our mentor pairs get very deep, very fast because of the trust they have with each other, because of their common beliefs as Christians. [00:14:03][104.8]
Rusty: [00:14:05] Diane, you mentioned the book that she wrote Work Love and Pray. And I particularly love the subtitle that goes with it. And I’ll read it here for our listeners, “practical advice for professional Christian women and those who want to understand them.” So I think the second half of that was written to Henry and William and I. [00:14:23][18.0]
Rusty: [00:14:27] I think, you know, we have a lot of both of those groups listening in today. So can you share with our listeners and give us some better insight into, you know, what’s the state of being a woman in business and particularly in entrepreneurship? Right. Because entrepreneurs, I think, you know, by any measure would say that we tend to probably spend more time working, take on greater burden about our business than maybe if we set at some place in the hierarchy of a big company or corporation. What’s been your experience in working with women entrepreneurs? And then maybe also address. I think something for all of our listeners because we spent time on the podcast talking about outside of work. We talk about family and the importance of family. How do entrepreneurs balance the family side as well and still reach their professional goals and their ambitions? [00:15:18][51.6]
Diane: [00:15:20] Yeah, those are great questions. Well, it was really interesting when I knew what we were going to talk about today. I did a little bit of research. And I have to tell you, I was actually flabbergasted because, you know, I looked at what is happening on the financial side. And when I looked at the percent of money venture capital that goes to women versus men and then you go to multi cultural women, it’s even more horrible. So basically two percent of venture capital money in 2017 went to women. So I’ve done this startup and I’ve had to raise money to do this startup. And I know that it’s been hard, but God has totally blessed and provided. But I can imagine being a young entrepreneur who hasn’t had that business experience and even the hard knocks that. You know, because obviously being in commercial real estate, all my answers were, yes, there were a lot of no’s and I learned how to deal with those and get over no’s and move forward. But I can’t imagine a young entrepreneur who hasn’t had that what she has to deal with around the fundraising side, which is so critical for startups. And then as you mentioned and I mentioned a little bit earlier in the studies that were done, again, it’s hard for women to find women mentors, especially faith based mentors. And I think that’s why our mentor program has been such a huge success. And also just networking. And it was interesting, you know, Liz Bohannan and I was with her Saturday and we were talking about this topic and she just mentioned things like, you know, how many times she feels left out because the guys are going to go off, you know, so this network thing is very hard to do. So, you know, I would just say that probably a lot of the things that I dealt with in the corporate world are still they are in a major way. I mean, you look at the numbers and, you know, it’s like 68 percent of board seats today are held by women. So there’s been some progress, but not a lot of progress. And I’m sure when you add in the fundraising side, that’s even tougher to deal with. And then to your question at the end around family, you know, the one thing I do see and I’ll just use listen, Benbow, women and my son, he and his wife Laura, as she is when they join the game three designers. And, you know, they really I see Ben. I see my son. They share a lot in the care-giving and in the work around the home, which I think is different than my generation. So I just applied the younger men. So I’m sure you’re all younger than me. So I applaud you because having a partner in their age who is helping you with that? And I’m blessed that Chris is exactly that way for me. Or we couldn’t have had two careers and four children. It just puts another stress on a woman. If there isn’t that sort of equal sharing of not only raising your children and running in a home. But sometimes it’s also caring for elderly parents. So there’s just a lot of other things in life. And to just be sure that you’re giving your family the time that they deserve, especially as you are building something that you’re probably just in love with and you love what you do. But you’ve got to be able to put it down because there’s people in your life that are going to be really important to you forever. And not just that year when you’re Jenny in your company. [00:19:32][252.6]
Henry: [00:19:33] So, Diane, I’m fascinated by this. When I think back about my entrepreneurial journey, I think about how much time I need to spend on the road and yet frequent listening as a podcast, we understand. I always put faith and family before work. And yet the reality was, is that I wasn’t at home all the time. And of course, during the day hours when my kids were home, Kimora was a primary caregiver in our boys. Never would’ve been able to thrive without that. And I wonder how that dynamic works for female entrepreneurs work. It wasn’t hard for us in our context because American society is focused on the male breadwinner. And so I didn’t feel any type of real stress about that. I mean, we worked through things that we balance things in. There’s some different times that I’d watch the kids and things like that. But by and large, that burden fell primarily to her during the day hours. For a female entrepreneur, that has to kind of go against the stream upstream a little bit, if you will, with the way that the rest of society thinks, maybe even that their husband thinks. I would imagine that that would be a stressor that would be on top of all the other stresses that entrepreneurs have to face. And how do you counsel female entrepreneurs to be able to have those types of conversations with their husband and just be able to navigate through that? And maybe I shouldn’t presume that that is a harder conversation to have happen between a female entrepreneur and her husband around caregiving. But maybe it is. I bet it is. How do you work with women entrepreneurs that are trying to figure out how do I balance the need to make sure my kids are taking care of? And how do I even have a language to approach my husband with? This is what I feel called to do. I really want to do it. And how do we figure this out? And part of that may be you taking more of the child responsibilities. That’s an interesting relational dynamic. Can you just speak into that a little bit? [00:21:20][107.3]
Diane: [00:21:21] Yeah. So I talk about this a little bit in the book and Chapter 13 where they say when you’re both wearing the pants, so if you’re going to be an entrepreneur, you really need to find a spouse that respects what you feel God has called you to do and how you’ve been gifted just as much as you respect him. And so a lot of times it’s about even who you choose to marry. And there’s a lot of great counseling that can be done before you get married to make sure that’s fair, because you don’t want to go into a relationship when someone doesn’t have that open mindedness and that teammate attitude to, you know, we’re going to do this together and in all just share in our life. There was a time where Chris needed to throttle back and spend more time working out of our home. We’re a blended family and his children had lost their mom. And we just agreed that he needed to leave his traveling job with McKinsey Consulting and do his venture capital or consulting of our home until we felt what they were. Okay. And then once we got to a stage where I was blessed that I could be the primary breadwinner in our family. And then, you know, things have shifted. Right. Today, I’m running a not for profit. I don’t charge to profit anything for his salary. I serve on a couple of corporate boards. So that’s great that Chris is really the primary breadwinner of family. So I think, you know, I tell a lot of our younger women. You know, there’s going to be different seasons. And the cool thing is that you just have this communication and this attitude and you’re praying through the challenges together because that’s what’s going to get you there. [00:23:25][123.3]
Diane: [00:23:25] And that’s why I love the mentor program so much, because even though we have a certain structure and we can talk about that later, so I won’t go into that now, 80 percent of our almost 500 peers who have been through our program are still in touch with each other. So having that woman that can really be there for you when you have those questions and really support you through those times is very, very helpful. So I hope that answered your question. [00:24:00][35.1]
Henry: [00:24:02] It did. It did. Thank you. I think that you brought up a new topic that I don’t think that we’ve ever addressed on this show ever as many podcast episodes as we’ve done, which is what this means towards picking your partner. I think it goes both ways. I think that as a man has an entrepreneurial ambition, being able to think through what that calling might be and having a supportive fiancee and then supporting wife is important. And your suggestion is, of course, that it works the reverse way as well, and that that this works best when somebody enters into that very committed relationship where they are supportive of the kind that the wife or the mother might have. That’s super important and provides a really great framework for young women out there that believe that they’ve been called or Farsi about innovating and creating see themselves as an entrepreneur. Being able to have that discussion with their potential spouse early on is important. And then it goes vise versa. Right. So if my wife, for instance, had anticipated that I can have a 9 to 5 job at IBM, she would have been sorely disappointed when we end up getting married. And so that type of premarital conversation is important for both sexes. And yet we’ve never talked about that. We’ve never talked about that on this show about what’s it look like to get married knowing that you’re an entrepreneur at heart. [00:25:16][74.5]
Diane: [00:25:17] Yeah. And let me share this little story. When my husband, Chris and I were with Liz and Ben Bohan and who I should say are the founders of Sseko Design. But you were having tea together in Portland, and we had met a little after four o’clock. And when 5:00 hit, Ben said, you know, childcare doesn’t stay later. We’ve got to go. And it wasn’t Liz’s that said that, it was Ben. So, you know, it’s just great to see when couples are sharing different roles and they’re able to switch back and forth, you know, and just be a team and be flexible, because obviously as an entrepreneur, you’ve got to be flexible and you’ve got to have sort of that long term goal of, you know, number one. [00:26:13][56.5]
Diane: [00:26:14] We’re here to serve God and serve others. Number two, we’re here to serve each other as a marriage partner. And number three. Yes. We want to have this business flourish. We want it to support our family and we also want it to support our employees, families, et cetera. But you sort of have to have a very long term vision of that versus what’s happening on a daily basis. [00:26:38][23.9]
William: [00:26:39] Diane, I have one more question. I’m just interested in so, you know, it’s about, I guess eleven years ago now that you noticed a big gap in the market in Women Marketplace Ministries, and you’ve been attacking that sense. [00:26:50][11.0]
William: [00:26:51] I’m just interested as you continue to pour into that space. Are there any other gaps in the market or is this still the giant one that you’re still pursuing? Or just how can we best look at this growing market as you so compelling laid out the stats and be an advocate and be a help for Christian women continuing to come together and grow and understand their calling in the workplace? [00:27:12][21.0]
Diane: [00:27:14] Yeah. Great question. You know, my long term goal is we don’t need 4word anymore. But I’ll tell you, it’s a huge gap. And I’ll just be very honest. [00:27:24][10.8]
Diane: [00:27:25] A lot of our women feel most like they may not be doing the right thing when they’re at their church. They feel like most churches are advocating that if they’re in the workplace, that’s not what God has called women to do. And they feel it from people within their church. And we hear it all the time. I mean, our number one comment we get is I have finally met my tribe, women who encourage and inspire me to use the gifts God has given me in the workplace rather than me feeling guilty about it. So I would just tell you, it’s a huge, huge gap. I’ve talked to elders of huge churches that have told me they don’t have any women in their church. They’re in the workplace. Seriously? So it’s a huge issue. Yeah, huge church. [00:28:27][61.6]
Diane: [00:28:27] So it’s just like there’s a lack of an understanding of. I mean, just think of the lives that the Bohannan’s have touched by having the ability to build a company that has given a new life to one hundred and thirty six women who have actually had the chance to go to university. And those women are now talking with all the women in that section of Kampala. And they now believe that there’s something beyond what they thought was there for them before. So there’s such a need to really hope not only workplaces, families, but churches in a major way have a viewpoint that really inspires and encouraged to women when they’re gifted in this way and when they feel called to do this. [00:29:28][60.2]
William: [00:29:30] Amen, thank you for sharing. And as we do come to a close here on the podcast we always loved, ask our guest and we’d love to ask you just kind of what journey God might have you on right now. What journey through his word, it continued to be living and teach us new things. It could be a word of scripture or a passage that maybe you’re in today. Could be your devotional, could be what God led you to this morning, could be a season that you’re meditating on. Something just we always marvel at how God connects our guest with our listeners with his word. And just if we could invite you into that, that be great. [00:30:02][31.7]
Diane: [00:30:03] Yeah. Well, thank you for that question. I’ll tell you, God’s love is teaching me, right. And it seems like daily I learn. And my husband and I do the you version Bible study Bible in a year every year. So we’re probably in our seventh or eighth year. And, you know, I fought back when I knew you were going to ask me this question, you know, whether the key things that God is teaching me now and I think, you know, number one is what do I do to fulfill my potential? And Matthew. Twelve forty six to thirteen. Seventeen is all about pursuing intimacy with Christ. And, you know, I think that’s the key for me is just putting down roots and making those roots go deeper and deeper so that everything I do is really led by the Holy Spirit. And by following the word of God in the decisions that I make each day. So I think, you know, fulfilling my potential and that’s by pursuing intimacy with Christ. And then you can imagine I’m a type-A. I may. Cheever, but, you know, I need to sometimes, just like. God be God and is great to just read Psalm 9 one to twelve, which really talks about the sovereignty of God and believing that she will never forsake us and that he’s given me great gifts, that I need abuse responsibly and work hard. But I also need to remember that God is sovereign through it all. And sometimes it’s better if I put it down and let God take over. So those two, I would say, are where I am right now, especially as Ford is exploding. I brought in a CEO. OSU’s phenomenal. She’s given me life again. I just brought in a CFO who is just phenomenal. And now I need to bring in a development director. But just allowing me to move to that role where I’m really where I should be and let other people take care of a lot of what’s going on so that we can just continue to reach women in the workplace in a way they’ve never felt community before. So those two things are what God is teaching me now is how to reach that potential and just let God be God and man a man. [00:32:48][165.0]
William: [00:32:48] Well, thank you so much for sharing. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Spending time with us. And now you’re on the road right now. And for carving time out of your day to spend with us, to spend with our listeners. It’s just a true gift and a pleasure and a blessing. And so thank you so much for sharing what God’s doing through you and through 4word as you continue to try to be faithfully obedient. Thank you, Diane. [00:33:10][21.4]
Diane: [00:33:10] Thank you. Thank you. Henry, William and Rusty, it’s really an honor. I really appreciate it. Justin, I have been friends for years, so it’s really fine to have that connection again. And I just say to all of your listeners, the entrepreneurs. I just wish you the best and just keep your eyes on God. And I know he’ll take care of you.
