It’s Tuesday. Which means it’s time to gather. Or, as you might say, it’s time to Convene. And that’s exactly what we’re talking about today. Our guest, Greg Leith is from the greater Los Angeles area, and he leads a ministry to Christian CEOs and Entrepreneurs called Convene. 

His work there has taught him what it means to be a healthy leader, as well as what we as entrepreneurs can do to foster and encourage our growth as both leaders and people. 

Listen in to catch the wisdom and insight Greg shared with us…

Useful Links:

Convene

Greg Leith Website

How Do You Grow as a Leader?

Episode Transcript

*Some listeners have found it helpful to have a transcription of the podcast. Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it. The FDI movement is a volunteer-led movement, and if you’d like to contribute by editing future transcripts, please email us.

Henry: [00:02:09] We love starting out the show, talking about your story, and I’ve got to know a little bit about it. We’ve known each other for six or seven years. Back to your time at all and always respected you in your career and your leadership. And a lot of people are like me and they know about much the work that you’ve done with CEOs and entrepreneurs over the different things you’ve done. But I don’t know that a lot of them know about your original business background. At ServiceMaster. And I think that that’s really obviously seminal to your work today where you learned and sat under one of the greats, the all time greats that taught us all of it about that background, that time that you worked at Serves Master, the lessons you learn, what it’s like to work under Bill Pollard. [00:02:46][36.4]

Greg: [00:02:47] Well, thanks, Henry. It was a great privilege and I didn’t know how great of a privilege it was, I think till it was over or till I sit with Bill Pollard these days. I like to say in jest that he made me cry sometimes when I was off budget, but I made him cry when I introduced him one day. [00:03:04][16.9]

[00:03:05] And the way I introduced him is I basically said that he is responsible for shaping me, in part to be somebody who thinks critically and somebody who thinks deeply to be somebody who thinks that a firm might just have a soul, figuratively speaking, to love people, to attribute dignity and value and worth to them and to have phrases rattling around in my head like if we don’t have profit, we don’t have a company to honor God. So get on budget. So I’ve enjoyed Bill in the in the last five or 10 years where we’ve continued to journey together and talk together and bring him to speak. And I just love listening to him because he’s so deep. [00:03:47][42.4]

Henry: [00:03:48] He is. Tell us what you’re doing now. Tell us about convene or maybe, before we get there, bring us up to speed from ServiceMaster to convene and what convene is? [00:03:59][10.9]

Greg: [00:04:00] Yeah. So I left ServiceMaster after 20 years and maybe a little life lesson for some folks who have been 20, 30 years in companies. I was just talking to somebody this morning about this. Another 30 year veteran of ServiceMaster and I who had known each other the whole time, looked at each other one day in a restaurant in Seattle and said, I think we got God and ServiceMaster mixed-up. And it was really poignant moment because the company that you work for, no matter how good it is, the company that you own, no matter how amazing it is, you can’t get God and the company mixed up. Yes. It’s a place to glorify God. Yes, it’s a place to honor God. But it’s not to be confused with doing something. That is the only thing that you could do. So after I left ServiceMaster, I began working a little bit with Insight for Living and Chuck Swindoll a little bit with Leighton Ford and Arrow leadership, where for a couple of years we created leadership training experiences for young leaders. So I got a chance to hang around with Leighton Ford, who loves young leaders. And then I had a little couple of year stint with Christian Management Association, again, training leaders, Christian leaders in nonprofit spaces. We had about 2000 members and then by Olla called and said, I hear you’re in Southern California. Would you love to come and work at Baylor University and never thought about that in my entire life? And I basically use this crazy phrase. I said, as long as I don’t have to raise any money, I’d be happy to come. The crazy part about this is, of course, you don’t work for a nonprofit, including a university, and not have a role raising money. So I indeed was quickly raising money. And by the time we left, I was the director for strategic alliances and we created a lot of alliances. But we also raised two hundred and twenty million dollars, which was a lot of fun. And I had a part to play in that with a team of many people. So I guess that is in terms of my background, somebody who spent time in the for profit world, in the nonprofit world and in the academy. And during that last 10 years of my buy all the time, my friend from Canada, Brian sat. Sure, founder of CONVENE asked me to be part of the board of directors, and I said yes. And then we had a leadership transition and they asked me if I would lead the company and I said yes. [00:06:21][140.9]

[00:06:21] And so I’ve been here leading convene for about five years and tell us what is convene. So convene is a place where Christian leaders get a chance to come together in small groups. Coast-to-coast about six to 16 people one day a month. And they work on their businesses and they work on each other’s lives and families and they pay to be part of that. [00:06:47][25.1]

[00:06:47] So if you’re a person who has heard of vistage or tech, we’re like them people who look somewhat like us in the marketplace of faith. It would be C12 and Truth at Work. And so we’re all in this journey together trying to make a dent in getting Christian leaders to stop going it alone, to pick up the phone and be in a group and work together on their business and their life and their family. [00:07:09][22.3]

Rusty: [00:07:10] Well, it seems like you’ve modeled that, Greg, because you told the story there of you and your coworker, both sitting there together, not alone, decided to launch out a ServiceMaster. And I want to ask you some questions about leadership and growth and all that. But before we go there, I was struck by the story there about that conversation about getting ServiceMaster and God mixed up. And how was that manifesting itself? I got a little bit of. Maybe there were some talents that were being used, but was there more to it than that? [00:07:39][28.6]

Greg: [00:07:40] Well, that’s a great question. It looks like this. It looks like things in your head that are. I can’t leave because I would dishonor God or everybody could work for ServiceMaster. [00:07:54][13.7]

[00:07:55] It can be a franchisee, a health care worker, a lawn care person. They could be a manager in the pest control division. But the thing that is the hardest would be something like, well, I can’t leave. This is where God has me forever. And that might be true for some, but it’s mostly not true for everybody. [00:08:14][18.7]

[00:08:15] So, you know, we want to honor God, but we don’t want to say the only thing I can do is whatever I’m doing right now. [00:08:22][7.7]

Rusty: [00:08:23] It’s a great lesson. It’s a great leadership lesson, because we have entrepreneurs, I know, listening right now who may think that they’re the only leader that that organization could have to survive. And, you know, not being able to hear God in that message. I think it’s tough. [00:08:41][17.9]

Greg: [00:08:41] Let’s just take it to a nonprofit leader for a minute. Here’s a phrase I hear a lot. Mom and pop start a nonprofit and they work at it hard for five years. They forgot to check that there’s 25 other people doing what they do. And they say things like God called me to do this thing. They get calling mixed up with rational and gifting. And then when it starts failing, they say these words. They say, God could not have brought me this far to allow me to fail. And I say, where does it say that? Right. It doesn’t say that anywhere in any secular or Christian book. [00:09:20][39.4]

[00:09:21] And so lots of people failed in the Bible, including leaders like David. So you can’t get God and your job mixed up, right? [00:09:31][9.1]

Rusty: [00:09:32] Well, you know, you do a lot of thinking and also writing about how leaders grow. So transition us there. How do leaders grow? [00:09:39][7.3]

Greg: [00:09:40] Well, we have been doing a lot of thinking about it. And the funny thing is this will be a not commercial for the early days of convene. [00:09:47][7.0]

[00:09:48] When I got here, we were saying this is the same be all get all. You must be in a peer to peer advisor group because that’s where everything good happens. [00:09:59][10.8]

[00:10:01] And I thought, you know, I like that, but there’s something wrong with that, and I just began thinking over the course of a year and other organizations like us were saying, oh, you’ve got to get everybody in a group and other organizations that are more Bible study oriented in the morning, we’re saying, hey, everybody’s gonna be in a group. And I kept saying, oh, something’s wrong with this. And I’m looking at a diagram I started sketching out right in front of me right now. [00:10:25][24.4]

[00:10:25] It was this tree in the middle and around the tree. I started writing ways that people grow. So if we’re rooted and grounded in Christ, we’re not just in a group. [00:10:39][13.6]

[00:10:40] We also read our Bible and we listen to God. We also might hire a consultant to help us where we’re stuck. We might do an assessment of our personality or our organization to say, where are we? We might hire a coach to say, let me help you see what you’re missing. And we for sure are going to be listening to podcasts, reading books, studying hard to understand, whatever we’re trying to learn. So when we put all that together, then we are professionally, spiritually, mentally and emotionally growing. And some people grow in groups and some people grow by reading books and some, et cetera. So that’s what we’ve been thinking a lot about. And that makes a nice little acrostic for the word grow. The G is get time with God and know you’re not God. R is we reflect deeply on who we are and how God made us. The O in grow is we open our life to community of peers and subject matter experts and coaches. And The W we work hard at being lifelong learners. [00:11:44][63.8]

[00:11:44] So that’s how leaders grow. So to just finish the story real quick, I’m thinking about this. Turn it into a better looking graphic and it’s starting to look pretty good. And I’m talking to a friend of mine, Dr. Charlotte Stewart from Harvard. And she says, well, Greg, did you get that from Harvard? And I said, no. And she said, well, that’s the Harvard best in class leadership development experiences all across the world. That’s how leaders grow. [00:12:09][25.1]

[00:12:10] And so even though we didn’t need the Harvard moniker or endorsement because it came from God’s word, it just kind of goes to show you that really all truth that is real comes and emanates from God’s word. [00:12:24][14.2]

Rusty: [00:12:25] You know, I’m interested in that juxtaposition. It’s called the intersection between what you’ve come up with with your, and we will post that graphic that you have there of the learning ecosystem on our Web site, but the intersection between what Harvard had come up with and what you’ve come up with, and in particular, you talk about the Holy Spirit as part of that growth. How does that reflect inside of that Harvard study? [00:12:50][24.7]

Greg: [00:12:51] Well, it doesn’t. That’s the part that’s not in the Harvard piece, though. It is interesting from my biology days, I can tell you this unequivocally. I’ve got pictures of the gates of Harvard and over the gates of Harvard. As many people know, it’s as Veritas, which is truth. Right. But the problem is the new leadership at Harvard came out at a particular point in time and said, we’re trying to rediscover what that means. And the thing is, if you’re standing at the gates of Harvard and you look over to the right from Arch that is chiseled in stone veritas on the right, there’s a plaque and it says after we build our houses and formed our government and build it our churches, and we built this university so that when our young pastors lie in the dust, they can be replaced. So here’s this place, Harvard, that was founded on teaching pastors and now says we’re not sure what truth really is. So that doesn’t take away from the fact that they’re a world class learning institution. [00:13:55][64.1]

[00:13:56] And their study in 2017 said best in class leadership development includes learning in context, learning by doing, learning by reflecting, learning over time, learning with others and learning by teaching. So all that is contained in the grow acrostic and Henry and I were talking about this, oh, gosh, maybe three or four months ago. [00:14:21][24.8]

[00:14:22] What’s happening today is people are saying, I read an article, I read a book, I listen to a podcast, I read another article and I think I learned something. Well, yes, you did. But you’re still rude to your employees. Yes, you did learn something, but you still don’t really understand your PNL and balance sheet. And everybody knows that. And the emperor has no clothes and you don’t want to admit it. So when you’re in community and a group, people tell you the truth. And I was doing a podcast today with Chris McCluskey, the father of Christian coaching. He’s trained 4000 Christian coaches. More than anybody in the world, and he said we teach Christian coaches that coaching is not the only way leaders learn. Which is at the same time I respond and said, we teach peer to peer. But we have coaching. And you trained all our coaches and we have consultants with 19 consultants now in our stable and convene. [00:15:22][60.6]

[00:15:23] So we want to say there’s a multiplicity of ways that leaders learn. Convene groups meet over time. And I could tell you stories till the cows come home or people who’ve looked across the table at another peer who told them the truth. And they finally got it. [00:15:40][17.0]

Henry: [00:15:41] There’s some beauty in that. And it’s a hard reality. And yet God designed us to be in community with others. If I’m in a community with another nine or 10 people, then I’m going to send that much more of a chance of knowing who God is because they’re just as created in the image God as I am. And I can’t really learn and find God if I don’t do it in community. It’s not the only way self-learning can, I think is a big part. I think you get at that. But I do think that’s one of the things that I think is unique about this episode, is your ability to speak into learning with others. And I love what you’re talking about with the emperor with no clothes. We’re all familiar with the concept of a blind spot. And we all know that if we’re just doing things on our own because we are blind to our problems will never address the fact that we’ve got a blind spot because we just don’t know we have it right. [00:16:32][50.7]

Greg: [00:16:33] I will never forget the story of one gentleman who put his head on the desk and started weeping and he said, How come nobody ever told me that he had been just confronted with the truth about his leadership after a 360 assessment. And we basically said you because you never asked anybody. You just kept doing and you were holding the mirror up to God, sort of. You really weren’t holding the mirror up to your other people that work with you and asking them what they think. And they basically said, you’re arrogant. You don’t listen to us. You do everything the way you want. You just ask us what we think and you just do what you want anyway. So why do you bother asking? And you said, why didn’t anybody tell me? And we said, because you never ask. The funny thing is, that night he asked his wife, what do you think of this? And, you know, can convene costs money? It’s not free and doesn’t cost a lot, but it cost something. And his wife said, well, I could’ve told you that for free if you’d start listening. [00:17:35][62.2]

Rusty: [00:17:36] You differentiate as you talk and write about the difference between a faith driven entrepreneur in a and a secular entrepreneur, and you use the word sanctification dove into that and take it apart for us. [00:17:49][12.8]

Greg: [00:17:50] Yeah, well, you know, if we keep being the same person, we’re holding up the mirror to our self and we look and we say, I like that. You know, there’s less hair, but I’m smiling and I like myself. But we need to hold the mirror up to God and we need to reflect his attributes and we need to hold the mirror up to others and say, what are you seeing? And that process of sanctification is how we will become more like Christ. Andrew Murray said it this way, if I can remember this correctly, he said. The first stage of a Christian’s life is I can do it. And the second stage of a Christian’s life is something like I’m trying, but I’m not getting this right. I don’t think I can do it. The third stage of a person’s life as this is impossible, I can never do it. [00:18:48][57.4]

[00:18:48] The fourth stage, according to Andrew Murray, is I can only do this with the help of God who strengthens me. And so that’s where the Christian has this incredible power, right. [00:19:00][11.6]

[00:19:01] The Holy Spirit, in the word of God and the fact that the Bible says we can have the mind of Christ. I mean, that in and of itself is a mind exploding thought that I can have the mind of Christ. Wait. He is God. And so that’s what sanctification is. That’s the edge that the Christian has that that Holy Spirit word of God combo is pretty incredible, man. [00:19:30][28.6]

Rusty: [00:19:31] Yeah. The idea that we all go back to the same touchstone, if you will. Right. You know, I mean, that’s the power that, you know, no pun intended. But when you convene and people are there together, we know that, you know, Christ will enter into those conversations. But the fact that we all go back to God’s word and what he’s done for us gives some direction to our entrepreneurs who are listening. They’re talking to themselves. They’re talking to others. They’re trying to sort of go through their own check up, if you will. What kind of question should they be asking themselves? [00:20:02][30.8]

Greg: [00:20:03] Well, I think you’d want to say to yourself, am I healthier than I was last month? Last year, maybe five years ago. Am I healthier? Am I different? When I look in the mirror, when I hold a mirror up to others, when I hold a mirror up to God, when I write in my journal. And my healthier or am I still doing the same things? Am I the person who comes to the meeting and says, I’m just a jerk? Everybody knows it. Get over it. I would say you are totally misappropriating the power of God to create change in a life. I’d ask yourself, are you in a group that can tell you the truth about yourself? Again, I was talking to Chris McCluskey the other day, father of modern Christian coaching, training 4000 coaches. And he says people can lie to their coach. Well, of course you can. Hey, Henry, how’s it going? And Henry says, oh, great. We had a guy say he was doing great for three months in one of our convening groups. And the fourth month, he said he was almost bankrupt. And so we created some strategies to put in place PNL and balance sheet reviews. So are you in a peer group where you are told the truth? Are you reading books or are you just collecting books? Are you underlining books or are you just putting them on a shelf and saying, I never got to it? Is your Bible marked up or is your bible pristine with the gold edges? Perfect. And you can’t, you know, find Hosai and you never read it. So as your bible marked up. Am I asking myself how do I raise the question of God in the company I lead and in the lives of the people I lead? How do you raise the question of God? And are you a kingdom builder building something that would last forever? Or are you just building a sandcastle that when the waves come as Max Lucado says it’s just going to wash the thing away and you’ll be holding a fistful of sand? [00:22:02][119.0]

Henry: [00:22:03] That’s a great framework. You know, as you talk about and I reflect on what you do, I convene and Granth, this is on being involved with leaders in analogy and illustration kind of thumbs up for me. It’s almost like an insurance. It’s our listeners want to be really successful what they’re doing and want to be great faith of not charge. You want to come to know God. They want to love their partners, vendors, customers, employees in a way that points to him. And yet it’s really hard to be really successful if you don’t have people that are there to help you through the challenging times or to maybe be able to speak the truth and lots to you or call you out in gentleness and love. When you’re not being as open and transparent, they still reflect on the guy who said he was doing great for three times. Then I’ll say he’s almost bankrupt. I think they were called to be in community again. And I tell you, being an entrepreneur is a lonely, lonely, lonely place. And trust me that it’s hard to have really good, transparent, vulnerable relationships with your investors. I’m an investor and yet I know that I have good relationships with a lot of my astronauts. A lot of times when things are really stressful, they don’t come to me first. I’d love for them to, but they don’t. They’ve got to have a really good face forward for their customers because they’re the people who are buying their product. They have to really have good taste for it for their employees. And then they come home from work and the wife gets said or the husband said, you should never let that great paying job at Cisco, and they ask how things are gonna always feel like he can’t be completely open and transparent with them. And so to be able to be in a community where you can really be truthful with a group of peers who get it, who understand how hard it is to hire people, how hard it is to fire people is really important, almost like an insurance policy on your business to make sure this head in the right direction. [00:23:48][104.6]

[00:23:49] So that’s one of things they’ve come to appreciate my relationship with you. And I think that I want to really implore our listeners to be able to think about that, whether it’s his way at work. Truth at work. F.C.C.I convene obviously with Greg Allen. We’ve got to make sure we mention Corvino has a link to the site, another one that he had mentioned, C12. Find out what’s local. Find out what the groups look like, whether they meet close to you. And I think you’ll find that they can be a lot of groups are going to have peers and they can be in different industries and have different perspectives. It’s amazing. I learned a great lesson about merchandising recently from the pizza business. I’ve never invested in pizza business, but it’s really interesting to see how looking at different companies from different industries going up yours as well. OK. We want to close out our time with the way that we always do that William is taking care of family tonight. He’s been away on a business trip for several days. And we want to make sure that he had family dinner. One of the values that, you know, that we espouse here at Faith Driven Entrepreneur podcast. I get the honor of asking you, Greg, what you’re hearing from God in his word. And it could be something as recent as today if he last week. But what is he, as you have, taking your well-worn Bible? It doesn’t have any gold left on it at all. I spend time in it. What are you learning? What are you reading? [00:25:04][75.7]

Greg: [00:25:05] Yeah, well, somebody challenged me in the last week to hang out in Psalm 119. And right away I was like, oh, that’s the long one. And I read it before and I don’t think I’m going to go for it. And then I was sitting there real early the other day and I said, you know what? Tackle that thing. And I circled every time it said, Obey, and I was circling like there was no tomorrow. The word obey, obey, obey, obey, obey, obey. And I just thought, holy smokes. God keeps saying in this song, you should hang out in my word. You should learn from my words. Your life should reflect my decrees. And this writer keeps saying. Teach me, teach me, teach me, teach me. [00:26:03][57.9]

[00:26:05] Opened my eyes and then it keeps saying, and I want to obey. I want to obey. I want to obey. I want to obey. And I just kind of thought, oh, that’s pretty basic, isn’t it? It’s get in the word, stay in the word and obey it. And so many of us, me included, can pick up the iPad and look at, you know, Fox versus CNN versus NBC or whatever the heck you read. And then we can read a book about leadership and then we can say, oh, too late. Gotta go. No time for the Bible. And yet here Psalm 119 saying my word really matters. Get in it. And when you’re done reading it, do what it says. So at the end, it says, I have not forgotten your commands. And after all is said and done, when all the dust is settled. When we’re all not living on earth anymore. If the earth is still here, we want to say that we honored God in everything that we did and that we made a difference for the kingdom of God because our company is not going to heaven. Newsflash whatever company you run, including a nonprofit. The company entity is not going to pass through the pearly gates. You are the only person who’s going to come with here’s somebody that you brought with you. [00:27:28][83.1]

Henry: [00:27:29] That’s a great word and I’d forgotten it. That must be the longest book in the Bible. Here’s some verses to leave our listeners with. [00:27:35][6.9]

[00:27:37] I long for your salvation, Lord, and your law gives me the light. Let me live that I may praise you, and you may your laws sustain me. I have strayed like a lost sheep. Seek your servant, for I’ve not forgotten your commands. Greg, thank you very much for being with us. Great blessing to spend some time with you. I’m glad that our audience get to the same. Rusty, always awesome partner with you, brother. [00:27:59][22.7]

Rusty: [00:28:00] Same here. Thank you, Greg. [00:28:01][0.8]

Greg: [00:28:02] It’s good to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.

The C12 Group continues to share great content like this so feel free to browse their website here.

— by The C12 Group

C12 Member, Todd Stewart, and CEO of Gulf Winds Intl, decided a 50% employee engagement rate was not acceptable within his freight and shipping company. He and his Key Player executive team proposed to engage each employee by listening to their needs and delivering exceptional employee care. Todd expresses,

“As CEO, it is my responsibility to position people to hear from God.”

An engaged employee has less distracting them from that still small voice, and Todd accomplished that by raising employee engagement to over 70% in under 9 months!

Enjoy the full video here!

We continue to count down the Top 100 Books for Faith Driven Entrepreneurs with…

Alternative to Futility

by Elton Trueblood

Modern man, now come to a full consciousness of his spiritual sickness, is ready for the first time to accept a thoroughgoing remedy, Dr. Trueblood is convinced. Here the author presents his prescription for restoring the total health of civilization.

Dr. Trueblood’s answer is a ‘redemptive fellowship”—the only “alternative to futility” which holds promise of adequate fulfillment in our age. This book develops the idea of such a fellowship—a creative society in miniature—a “beloved community” which may have small beginnings but can grow like the mustard seed. Further, he supplies abundant suggestions as to how these redemptive fellowships may be nourished in the community and in national life.

Click on the book cover to check out the Reviews and Purchase at Amazon

This content was originally published here by 4Word, the mentorship program and community that helps women in the workplace reach their God-given potential.

— by Jordan Johnstone

When you think of “mentorship,” what comes to mind? A cookie-cutter idea of what a mentor looks like and does? Something stiff and one dimensional? Hallie Graves, lawyer and director of the Austin chapter of Polished, wants to open your eyes to the different “flavors” of mentors out there, and how you can make your time with them as beneficial (to both of you!) as possible.

4word: Tell us a little about yourself!

Hallie: Hi, I’m Hallie! I’m a 30-something lady lawyer and an Austin,Texas, native. After college in Memphis and law school in Dallas, I worked for a year for a federal judge in Dallas and then joined a big law firm in Dallas as a commercial litigator. In 2014, I made my way back to the homeland and transferred to our firm’s Austin office. I’ve since moved on to start my own law firm and am now in the process of looking for a new job, ideally in a smaller law firm. When I’m not lawyering, I love being outdoors in Austin, acquiring books for my to-be-read tower, and directing the Austin chapter of Polished, which brings together young professional women to navigate career and explore faith together. I also write some stuff and love talking to groups any chance I get! Oh, I’m also an aspiring foster mama and am in the final stages of getting approved to have some littles come live with me.

4word: You had the unique opportunity to be involved in an employment committee with your law firm. How did that experience shape your view of mentorship?

Hallie: I’m so grateful I got to serve on the employment committee. As part of my job, I helped with interviewing, hiring, and mentoring law students through the employment process. I loved almost every minute of it. It was unique in that as a young lawyer, I needed mentorship and leadership from people ahead of me – be it two years, ten years, or thirty years ahead. But I also had the chance to mentor law students and brand-new lawyers.

As a mentee, I learned to not rely on just one person to be my official “mentor” but instead to ask myself what I could learn from each person I worked with or for. I learned to ask questions when I didn’t understand why we did something a certain way and to not be afraid to voice a different opinion. As a mentor, especially a young one, I realized we all have something to contribute to those coming behind us – whether we’re a month or a year or ten years ahead of that person. I learned that sometimes the people with the most recent experience can speak into a situation, and other times people with more perspective and distance are the best to speak on it. The committee experience allowed me to understand firsthand from experienced lawyers what an exceptional young lawyer was. Because we were looking to hire those people, I started to identity how to become that person myself.

4word: Do you think there’s some confusion about what a mentor is/looks like? Are there different “flavors” of mentor?

Hallie: Yes! Both in the law firm and through Polished, I’ve heard many pleas for mentors. I’ve learned to ask, “What do you expect from a mentor?” or “How do you hope a mentor will be able to help you?” The answer to that question usually guides what I suggest for next steps. I’ve had at least two different types of mentor figures in my life and career – the “big sister” figure, the “model,” and the “advocate.” The big sister figure is the person that I’d approach with questions about how to do something; she’s a person I’d look to for advice, of any kind – personal, professional, spiritual, intellectual. She’s someone that would be farther along than I am, but maybe not in a position to further my career in a specific way. She’s a safe person to break down in front of or to ask silly questions. Sometimes, she’s just a listening ear. At the law firm, my first big sister mentor was Susan, who I frequently referred to as my big sister. I’d ask her about cases she wasn’t working on, and she was generous to give me advice and her time even when she wasn’t involved with the situation at all.

The model is someone that I want to be like, in whatever way. Maybe she’s someone I want to emulate professionally, spiritually, or relationally. She might not be the person to which I ask all of my silly questions, but she’s someone that I want to pattern myself after and become more like. In the work context, this might look like a woman who’s figured out a way to do the things I want to do – to have a fulfilling work life, home life, friend life, and spiritual life. Maybe she’s figured out a unique way to handle her schedule or established a niche practice area that I want to join. I knew that I needed a model to decide where I’m headed; to be directional rather than directionless.

The advocate has a different role. The advocate might have more power than a big sister figure, and is particular to the professional world. She’s someone who will go to bat for me when I need it. For example, if I were working on a case with Adrian and Jennifer, and they’re deciding whether to send me or Tyler to an important hearing, my advocate would jump in to explain to Adrian and Jennifer why I’m the best person for the job. She’s putting her reputation on the line, and using her power, for my benefit. I think we frequently underestimate our need for a strong advocate, but I’ve found it to be critical. We won’t always be involved in important decisions about us, and we must rely on people who can pull us up to do so.

4word: How can someone figure out what kind of mentor she needs? If it ends up being outside the scope of a “traditional” mentor, where can you start to find the mentor that fits you and your situation/needs?

Hallie: I’d start with asking yourself, “what am I hoping a mentor will do for me?” Sometimes, we want a listening ear, a person to vent to, a person who will understand what we’re going through and help us decide the next step. That’s a big sister. Maybe we need to figure out where we’re going in our career and how to get there. We’d need a model. Or maybe we need someone to speak on our behalf, to use their power to help us get to the next step: the advocate.

I don’t know that our world really fosters neat mentorship any longer. So many of our workplaces and hierarchies and systems are less traditional, so our mentors may be as well. Once you know what you’re looking for in a mentor figure, brainstorm who you already know who might help in that direction. You might not know a big sister figure, but do you know someone who knows someone else who might be? You might not have an advocate, but who can you do amazing work for so that they are willing to go on a limb for you?  

Assume that every person you meet has something to teach you. Maybe it’s a negative example: what not to do. But when you find a good fit, a person you want to learn from, or be like, or who can help you, ask them to do that. Be up front – ask if they would be open to you coming to them with questions, or ask if they would have a conversation with you about their career path. Here’s a secret: people love talking about themselves, so ask them.

4word: What tips do you have for millennials or young professionals to help them make their mentorships a fruitful and enjoyable experience for themselves and their mentors?

Hallie: I’m as guilty of this as the next millennial, but sometimes we might not put in the work required to form and maintain these relationships. If you ask someone to help you, be sure to treat their time and effort appropriately. If you set up a meeting, show up, and be prepared. Have questions you want to ask, or stories you want to hear. Be ready to explain why you want to learn from them, specifically, as that will help shape your conversations.

Also, be thinking about who you can mentor, or advocate for, or listen to. Offer to get coffee with the woman who is a year or two behind you at work. Ask how things are going. It’s never too early to become a mentor for someone else.

4word: Anything else you’d like to share?

Hallie: In general, become the kind of person for which you’d want to mentor or advocate. Listen well, ask questions when needed, and implement as you learn. You might find that you have natural advocates and mentors when you are the person worth mentoring or advocating for!

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[Special thanks to 4Word for the cover photo]

Join us for an event celebrating the Faith Driven Entrepreneur in Raleigh, NC, on the evening of March 11th! Hosted by our friends Tom Vande Guchte, CEO of Storr Office Environments, Lance Clevinger, Consultant for Marsh & McLennan Agency and others. Our featured guest is Henry Kaestner, Managing Principal in Sovereign’s Capital, a Silicon Valley venture capital fund that invests in faith-driven entrepreneurs from its offices in Silicon Valley and Jakarta, Indonesia. Henry will share about his journey as a faith-driven entrepreneur and his subsequent career of investing in them and lessons learned from both experiences.

Before co-founding Sovereign’s Capital with his partners, Henry and his co-founder David Morken bootstrapped Bandwidth.com (NASDAQ:BAND), a company centered around faith, family, work, and fitness (in that order!). Henry will share about the ways in which God has blessed their journey, and the victories and struggles they experienced along the way, as well as his experiences investing in 42 faith-driven companies in South East Asia and the U.S. Henry is also the co-founder of Faith Driven Entrepreneur and Faith Driven Investor.

Enjoy an evening gathered to discuss work and faith, and to encourage and challenge each other: register here!

This content was originally published here by Two Ten Magazine, the Marketplace Ministry Magazine presenting Purpose, Perspective & Perseverance.

— by Diane Paddison

God gives each of us unique strengths and resources, and we are called to use those resources to serve Him. As I’ve gained experience in faith, relationships and business, one of the best ways I feel I can use my God-given gifts is to offer mentorship and guidance to others who might be younger or less experienced.

As a professional Christian woman who started a nonprofit to minister to professional Christian women, the most likely scope of my mentorship is pretty clear. I feel divinely called and prepared to mentor young professional women to reach their God-given potential. Over the past few years though, I’ve had the unique experience of mentoring someone whose life looks almost nothing like mine. In fact, his story is so different from mine that I initially had some doubts about whether I had anything to offer. But I felt God’s call to be a part of this young man’s life, and the experience has enriched mine beyond belief. Meet Lopez Lomong. My male, South-Sudanese, two time Olympian, athlete mentee.

In February of 2011, I was asked to be the warm-up act at a speaking opportunity for the Mentor’s Forum, a group started by Greg Sherwood to utilize young professional men and women in Portland, Oregon to mentor college students. I was happy to speak and interested to learn more about the Mentor’s 360 professional men’s group, since we wanted to build a similar program for women through 4word. I didn’t imagine that God had much more in store that night.

The speaker after me was a man named Lopez Lomong. Lopez was born in South Sudan in the midst of war. At the age of 6, he was kidnapped from his home and held captive in a prison camp. To escape, Lopez ran. And ran. He spent days running for his life, eventually making it to the relative safety of a United Nations refugee camp. Several years later, Lopez immigrated to the United States, where he began running for competition, instead of survival. He has since represented the United States twice at the Olympic Games (2008 & 2012), and currently holds the U.S. indoor track and field record in the 5,000 meters.

As I met Lopez and heard his story that first day, I felt God moving me to learn more about this remarkable individual. So I took a first step and invited him and a friend to lunch the next week.

During lunch, Lopez shared that he was passionate about following God’s calling and had a vision of bringing hope to Southern Sudan. Lopez felt strongly that this was God’s calling for him, but he didn’t know how God would make it happen. For me it was a light-bulb moment. One of my closest friends from business school is Kevin Jenkins, CEO of World Vision International, a Christian relief organization interested in exactly the kind of work Lopez wanted to do.

I knew that God had brought me together with Lopez for a reason. I was able to connect Lopez with World Vision and to see them work together to develop 4SouthSudan, a World Vision sponsored program to help provide clean water, health care, education, nutrition, and most importantly hope, to the South Sudanese and a broader Team World Vision. I also encouraged Lopez to write a book and start a foundation.

I’m the first to admit that Lopez and I are an unlikely pair. But experiencing God make that first connection despite our disparate backgrounds gave me confidence to continue to open myself up to God’s work in both of our lives.

Lopez even lived for a short time with my family in Portland, Oregon, and my husband Chris and I had the honor of joining Lopez in celebrating the purchase of his own home and praying with him over it.

This past March I again shared a stage with Lopez, this time as part of the Good Friday Prayer Breakfast in Portland. I played the role of interviewer, helping to guide Lopez in the sharing of his story. At one point, I asked Lopez about escaping his Sudanese captors. As he was recounting the truly horrific experience, he said simply, “I survived because God says I matter.” That phrase has stuck with me and inspired me ever since. For Lopez, everything comes back to that time in his life when, against all odds and by God’s grace alone¸ he survived.

In Ephesians 3:20, Paul writes that God is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us. When I think about me mentoring Lopez, this verse always comes to mind. No matter how much we do as individuals, no matter how much we plan, God does more, and His plans go beyond our wildest dreams, let alone our comfort zones.

So offer mentorship or — even better — sponsorship where you can, even if the recipient seems unlikely.

“Yes, you may have special knowledge to offer those whose lives look the most like yours. But don’t underestimate God’s ability to work in the most unlikely circumstances.”

– Diane Paddison

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[Special thanks to Two Ten Mag for the cover photo]